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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Ion may be the face of the failures but jay Wilson and the diablo 3 team that moved over to wow during WoD are all to blame to. Notice when they moved over, the game went from an mmorpg to basically diablo mmo
    And yet Legion was the expansion that kept the amount of players playing most steadily since WotLK. First expansion in 6 years that managed that. Read MAUs from back then. Remember this is the game director and team that gave us Legion, not only WoD and BfA which indeed got troubles, but that got little to do with "diablo mmo".

    And the game is just as much mmorpg as it had been since WotLK. Contrary to belief, the game philosophy we have now is the same they started with in WotLK, for many the best time in World of Warcraft. We need to go back to TBC if we want anyhthing like the MMORPG parts you are looking for.
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  2. #42
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    GCD change, nuff said.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    For me it is clear that the current development team destroyed world of warcraft over the years.

    Instead of focusing on the world, they moved all their effort to (competetive) endgame. They forgot about the world they created in classic, and left it unchanged for a very long time until cataclysm, where they renewed it in a way people did not like much as well.

    Nowadays, if a new expac releases, all the focus is on new raids, mythic dungeons and rated pvp. Questing content is more a chore than a main feature, while it should be the core gameplay. It should be about the world mainly, and about dungeons and raids only if there is any time left to create them.

    I believe the classic reboot was successfull at start, because all of the world mattered again. In nowadays World of Warcraft, the world does not matter at all, and the fun gameplay happens in instanced content only. Leveling is a chore, without any kind of challenge. Crafting in old content does not matter. Crafting at end level feels like a raiding extension, as you need mats from raids to get raid level gear. Beside that, crafting is just another chore, as like are world quests.

    Endgame feels like a massive collection of time gates, where you cannot decide yourself what you want to play. Patch 8.3 shows that really well, where you have to do both assaults and world quests, which lack of fun gameplay or any kind of engagement. While the Nyalotha raid received all developer attention.

    For me it is clear that Ion Hazzikostas, as game director, is directly responsible for how the game evolved. I think he should be replaced by someone who actually knows how to design a MMORPG with a living and breathing world, which does not want to be a dungeon crawler.
    What in the hell are you talking about. WoW has sooo many systems that are not "endgame" that have grown over the years. Pet battles, Islands, Mage towers, Pvp, World pvp, World bosses, Daily quests, Emmissaries, Artifacts, add on dungeons like mechagon, Warfronts, heroic warfronts, World quests etc. Non of those are ENDGAME focused content. You can do most of them at any item level. WoW has done a good if not great job of adding content thats not endgame focused. Your problem is your tired of playing mmos but too dumb to realize it. The MMO formula is, has, and will always be the same. Boring content grinds over and over. Either find something you like, for me its raiding, or move on.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    The Classic argument gives you no credit.
    It actually does, as millions returned to a version of the game where the world mattered.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    .
    I'm given to ask why you couldn't have put this in one of the other at least dozen threads whining and crying about Ion. You know the best way to get Ion replaced is quit... stop giving Blizzard money.... and then when they ask why you are quitting you tell them its Ion's fault. Howling like a banshee while continuing to stuff your money into their pockets isn't going to work.

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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    It actually does, as millions returned to a version of the game where the world mattered.
    And gone they were after 3 months. Now everyone is waiting in IF and Org for their weekly 3 hours in MC/Onyxia. Classic was a hype, nothing more.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    Well, the difference is that Ion Hazzikostas actually is in charge and responsible to where the game is heading.

    And actually, he does no discussion with any gamers.



    I am blaming the guy who is responsible.
    Ion releases videos discussing things quite often. Much like Greg Street would release information and discuss questions from time to time, Ion does this as well in the form of videos with Lore.
    He is Game Director, and while he possibly has one of the most important roles in the design, he doesn’t single handedly design the game. People approach him with ideas and design decisions which he approves or disapproves of based on information and implementation. Sometimes, a decision is made that sounds amazing on paper but comes out poor in practice. That’s not strictly Ion’s fault alone as he also has a team working for him that show him things they want to do and how to do it.
    I also find it funny that the guy has worked at Blizzard since 2008 and has worked as one of the designers for raid encounter design, as well as later becoming lead designer in raids, as well as some character design decisions and lead designer prior to Game Director yet people overlook those years and now say he’s the sole reason for the game failing.
    Blizzard is a team that makes the game, it’s not one man or woman. People are blaming him because he has “Director” in the title while forgetting he used to be a lead designer during some of the best, and even worst, expansions before moving into the Game Director spot. So yeah, let’s put all the blame on one person. It’s worked in the past after all.

  8. #48
    Elitist Ion for elite gamers. He is the poster boy of us MMO champ bros here.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawon View Post
    But questing and story IS a chore and just something to get rid of asap, to reach the actual endgame! If I wanna mess around with quests and a good story, I for sure as hell wont play any mmorpg but a strong storydriven singleplayer game! :P
    FF14 is primarily storyline driven as its focus, and that's an MMORPG.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    What in the hell are you talking about. WoW has sooo many systems that are not "endgame" that have grown over the years.
    .. which do not matter for character progression outside of endgame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Pet battles
    .. only a few play, and only offers rewards that do not matter

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Islands
    Only offers artefact power, and is no fun gameplay. Like the world quests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Mage towers
    Overhyped content for those who like challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Pvp
    - gear dependent. Mythic raiders roflstomp world quester geared players.
    - faction imbalanced
    - no other gearing than time gates rewards noone needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    World pvp
    - faction imbalanced, group imbalanced, gear imbalanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    World bosses, Daily quests, Emmissaries, Artifacts
    Only matter in endgame. Or do you see anyone except a few transmoggers hunting for rares in old content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    add on dungeons like mechagon
    .. limited to mythic difficulty in 8.2, not adressing a large audience. Will change in 8.3, when its on the dungeon finder. The idea to limit dungeon to a mythic experience is just another bias driven bullshit from the elitist jerk that designs the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Warfronts, heroic warfronts, World quests etc.
    Endgame only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Non of those are ENDGAME focused content.
    Most of them actually are. Or do you think anyone will play warfronts in 9.0?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    You can do most of them at any item level.
    No, you cannot play warfronts at level 30. You have no mattering mobs outside of your endgame level bracket. Every crafting or collecting before endgame level is useless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Ion releases videos discussing things quite often.
    Those days are long over. Also no, he is not discussing any of his dicisions with gamers. I am not even sure if he knows about any of the trouble the players are unhappy about. I believe he sits in an ivory tower, where he plans the upcoming new mythic raid boss mechanics.
    Last edited by shaggawoolin; 2020-01-10 at 09:12 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    Do you really confuse blizzards limited idea of what open world quests are with how great open world content really could be?
    No, I just do not expect the game to completely change the way it has been working for 15 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    Have you ever played any kind of single player open world games recently? And do you want to tell me they do not offer something else than collecting 15 bear asses?
    Yes, as my post hinted I did actually buy and play Witcher 3 including DLCs around Christmas (81 hours for the main story only). Probably one of the best single-player games I ever played. But therein lies the catch: It is a single player action rpg, not an MMO.

    Just as I do not expect Witcher to offer me raids and dungeons to complete with others in a very defined online mode, I do not expext WoW to offer me a single-player experience like that. The games are completely different in type and targeted audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    I tell you.. a really good game designer knows how to design a compelling open world experience. And the chore in WoW surely isnt that. And an elitist jerk number juggler and theorycrafter surely lacks the ability to design compelling world content as well. While i believe it should really be about the World in World of Warcraft. As a typical MMORPG is mainly about the world the players share.
    I don't know how it is Ion's fault that you cannot see the necessary differences between a single-player game and an MMO. There simply is no way an MMO could ever deliver the kind of content you want. And you are wrong that MMOs are about "the world" as different MMOs have different foci.

    WoW is mainly about endgame, it is a/the classical MMO oriented on group content, SWTOR is focussed on story and doesn't give a crap about group content, GW2 is probably the most "world-focussed" one I can think of (maybe with TSW a close second), but still could never compare to a pure single-player game like Witcher.

    So if I gather this correctly you want an MMO that incorporates all the single-player elements an offline game brings. And you are blaming Ion now because WoW is not that, while everyone knows that WoW has never been nor could ever be that... ehm...

  12. #52
    I think you're completely wrong. We are responsible for what the game has become by constantly whining every time we find that something is too hard or takes too much time to the point where there is no challenge in the open world anymore. Outside of instanced content the game is, with very few exceptions, played like a hack and slash game because we complain every time a creature takes more than a few GCDs to kill or when a quest takes us to places that are not already next to us.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I don't know how it is Ion's fault that you cannot see the necessary differences between a single-player game and an MMO. There simply is no way an MMO could ever deliver the kind of content you want. And you are wrong that MMOs are about "the world" as different MMOs have different foci.
    Actually, the open world content of a single player RPG is possible in a MMORPG as well. As like games like ESO show.

    If yours and the devs imagination limit is at collecting bear asses, i do not really wonder about the chores we got with world quests.
    Last edited by shaggawoolin; 2020-01-10 at 09:21 AM.

  14. #54
    You should play a different game then, one that he hasn't wrecked

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Outside of instanced content the game is, with very few exceptions, played like a hack and slash game because we complain every time a creature takes more than a few GCDs to kill or when a quest takes us to places that are not already next to us.
    Not even like that, as there is no real action combat. Tab targeting is a game mechanic from the early 2000s.

    I think both the combat system and the open world design bias need a major overhaul. And i do not think that is possible with Mr. Elitist Jerk as game director.

    You cannot fill the brain of a mythic dungeon or raider player with compelling world content. That would destroy all his theorycrafting excel tables he has in his head.

    And do not forget the loot schedules. Ion wants to know when you get an item upgrade.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    For me it is clear that the current development team destroyed world of warcraft over the years.

    Instead of focusing on the world, they moved all their effort to (competetive) endgame. They forgot about the world they created in classic, and left it unchanged for a very long time until cataclysm, where they renewed it in a way people did not like much as well.

    Nowadays, if a new expac releases, all the focus is on new raids, mythic dungeons and rated pvp. Questing content is more a chore than a main feature, while it should be the core gameplay. It should be about the world mainly, and about dungeons and raids only if there is any time left to create them.

    I believe the classic reboot was successfull at start, because all of the world mattered again. In nowadays World of Warcraft, the world does not matter at all, and the fun gameplay happens in instanced content only. Leveling is a chore, without any kind of challenge. Crafting in old content does not matter. Crafting at end level feels like a raiding extension, as you need mats from raids to get raid level gear. Beside that, crafting is just another chore, as like are world quests.

    Endgame feels like a massive collection of time gates, where you cannot decide yourself what you want to play. Patch 8.3 shows that really well, where you have to do both assaults and world quests, which lack of fun gameplay or any kind of engagement. While the Nyalotha raid received all developer attention.

    For me it is clear that Ion Hazzikostas, as game director, is directly responsible for how the game evolved. I think he should be replaced by someone who actually knows how to design a MMORPG with a living and breathing world, which does not want to be a dungeon crawler.
    Many like him..many hate him. I had a heated discussion about Ion with a buddy..and my friend treats Ion like a savior for wow. lol
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by shaggawoolin View Post
    He is in the position to change that for a long time already. He did not.
    Did you apply to Blizzard to any position? Or are you a blizzard's ex-employee and you got snubbed for a promotion?

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Many like him..many hate him. I had a heated discussion about Ion with a buddy..and my friend treats Ion like a savior for wow. lol
    The messiah of excel tables and time gating.

  19. #59
    I never was a fan of his, and im sure he took many wrong decisions in WoW.

    But im not sure if he is the only reason of the recent wow failures. The concept behind war campaign story was a disaster, especially combined with Azshara and Nzoth stories. Also the Azerite system and the news features warfronts ans island expeditions were big boring failures. Is really Ion the main reason they were created like this?

    I do believe someone more attached to what wow really needs and who understands the reasons of the failures should be in charge of the next wow expansions. I dont think ion is the answer for the wow lead in the next expansions.
    Last edited by RangerDaz; 2020-01-10 at 09:41 AM.

  20. #60
    The bottom line is that Ion is a lawyer by profession. That's what he was working as while he was at EJ. He only got involved with game development from his experience in EJ and WoW and it really does show. He's not very good at nailing the "fun" aspect of his games. I'm sure he feels right at home in his office diddling the numbers though.

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