Originally Posted by
Illusions
You are severely unrelenting in your barrage of threads to reach for your Nightborne druids and whatnot, aren't you?
Not a thread about nightborne druids,. I know you might think so because druidsm is mentioned in there, but the subject heading and content I think sufficiently clarify the topic.
Originally Posted by
Illusions
First of all, why do Nightborne need to be similar to Highborne? They're more similar to Blood Elves at this point, magical mutations and so on (difference: Arcane, not Fel). Why should they be druids? They do not care for Nature and Balance, they care for the aesthetic. That doesn't make them druids, I've explained this further in the other thread of yours
.
Your first question. This is what the topic is about discussing, and exploring. I am assuming you are aware that the Nightborne are the highborne kaldorei culture brought to the present in its pristine state - it is the Suramar from the war of the ancients story where Tyrande, the Stormrages, the Shadowsongs are all from in a time when the arcane was paramount but the night elf leadership had fallen to addiction, abuse and recklessness with it.
It is not about why they should be druids, mentioning druidsm or the role it can play in distinguishing the two is valid as it relates to the topic, but if that's you're premise, for this point, then I will point you to the other topic. Please read the topic for what it is without prejudice. In other words, don't approach thinking it is a thread about nightborne druids, base it purely on what it is saying.
Originally Posted by
Illusions
Secondly, I must ask - how important is Elune for Nightborne anyway? Wowpedia lacks mention of their religion, and I do remember them forsaking Her in favour of Arcane. Why write Order of Elune into a culture that does not care about Elune any more, or at least, doesn't hold Her to the same regard? If you want the Order of Elune as in the ruling order, that can happen under a different name, but how many of the Nightborne are even there? Don't they have similar numbers to, let's say Void Elves? This is about the Horde-aligned Nightborne, of course. What is there even to govern, minuscule amount of Nightborne?
The simple answer is we don't know, but the topic does beg an exploration of the very question you ask. As we don't know, we ask should it be? How much of it? Would it be a good thing? Can it serve a purpose? Should it be relevant? In the topic I bring up Elunism and the effect it could have in both nightborne and highborne groups and how its influence can help distinguish the two. The order of ELune in a night elf civilization hasn't been shown yet in game. (it had some depth in the War of the Ancients trilogy), but the Order of Elune amongst the Long vigil night elves the Darnassians from from is more a sentinel based group then a temple based priest order - because we haven't been shown the latter. This provides an opportunity for exploration. In the nightborne who are the example of pre-sundering kaldorei culture during the invasion era, the Order was heavily intertwined with the arcane culture, the more magical priest side of the order we only catch glimpses of when night elf priests use arcane spells like Starfall and others was far more prevalent and the major side of the priest.).
So, we can have an example of this to see what that is like, and its presence also gives a different feel and look to the nightborne making them more distinct than the blood elves. I wouldn't know why anyone would want the nightborne to be blood elf copies, when they are a night elf based group with a particular side of the Kaldorei we haven't seen before - we already have blood elves, having a carbon copy with a different skin serves no purpose and is of no interest to a person like me who loves depths and appreciates differences.
We contrast this on what it must be like amongst the highborne, and a potential difference that distinguishes them arises (I've written all this in the OP) the current highborne have no city civilization atm, and the priesthood there is still very martial (based on what we are shown - they could be magical, and we know that they are magically based from the books, but we haven't seen that shown in-game - we don't assume it's not there because of that, but we can use the more martial aspect as the main thrust in this exercise).
In other words, concering the Order of elune, Highborne = magical group with a martial priesthood involved in a rural setting, Nightborne = magical group with a magical priesthood involved in an urban setting. (and don't you dare skim this reply only quoting this part without taking in the context it is given in, I obviously mean Highborn should/can be/become, nightborne should/can become - this is what the context should tell you.)
Originally Posted by
Illusions
Thirdly, I wouldn't want to use Nightborne as a template for any other race than Nightborne. Why should they be? There is a template for Highborne already. There is a template for an arcane culture in the Darnassian culture already.
Nightborne are nightborne, and it is bringing out what this means, and clarifying it. Please tell me which of my assertions about the nightborne are wrong. . why do I get the feeling that what you are saying here is entirely because you are making assumptions on what I want with nightborne rather than what actually is. I can't ehlep but feel that when you say "I wouldn't want to use nightborne as a template for any other race" - I feel like, ,this is what he thinks I am doing, he's got it wrong. if mentioning the night elf root and base of the nightborne is what leads you to this conclusion, or reading Mehrunes completely skewed or rather twisted interpreations of me has led you here, or perhaps memories from my previous posts, please, take this as a fresh canvas, make no asumptions, assume I am a completely new person, and mtreat the topic as such, without re-supposition or agenda, as I replied in the post above, this is really about exactly what it says.
Nightborne and Highborne are very similar, they are the most similar group. They are kinda like high elves and blood elves. [Yes, nightborne are more similar to highborne night elves than they are to blood elves both culturally (as anyone who's read night elf lore in WotA or Chronicles and played Suramar would see) and also physically (you only need to look at the models and appearance, and if you follow the story of the change both groups underwent, nightborne are closer to the original kaldorei than the high/blood elves are] Failure to see that is surprising in any warcraft lore fan who knows elven lore. Now differences are around, lets find them (that's what I am exploring here), and think of more potential ways they can be distinguished. Whiles making them carbon copies of blood elves is one, albeit a bland one, at least show how they will drift more towards that and become ugly looking purple blood elves.
Originally Posted by
Illusions
Darnassian implying Night Elven.
Of course Darnassian implies night elven but not ALL night elves, atm it is the Alliance aligned Kaldorei with a heavy druidic and Elune aspect, it also has highborne aspect incorporated now in it. Darnassian is actually different from long vigil Kaldorei because it is a new culture in a post-vigil era for the Kaldorei as particularly part of the Alliance. Darnassus was destroyed at the start of the Battle of Azeroth. This is expected to further define the night elves.
Originally Posted by
Illusions
Lastly, a more interesting idea would be to compare the Farondis-style Highborne and the Highborne of Eldre'thalas, really. I feel like there are more nuanced cultural differences there than in obvious Nightborne/Highborne comparisons.
Okay, that has its place, at another time you can make that post. It would be interesting especially when the Farondis highborne became a playable group or are actively shown to have involvement in world affairs outside the Azsuna and Legion expansion setting, it is less appealing as a topic currently (although I'm happy to expand there), but it is very much worthy of mention here. Nightborne and Highborne are active and playable portions, and are very much involved in world affairs through their factions and allies. The nightborne are the most visible example of that arcane kaldorei culture that both the Shen'dralar and Farondis highborne are about but have little to show of its original context. Suramar 7.0 shows this quite well. Substitute the Nightwell for the Well of Eternity, Suramar is Zin'Azsharai, and Elisande is Azshara. Night elf city, night elf cutlture in 7.0 this is what they show.. now at the end of the nighthold, a significant change has occurred. the highborne kaldorei era ends, just like the long vigil era for the night elves ends with WC3. They have enough changes, like the Arcan'dor, the blood elves and horde, draining of the nightwell to become something different. Highborne now are Shen'dralar led, but not shen'dralar exclusive, they are the remaining highborne including those who were part of the long vigil culture that switched to druidsm or just upheld the Long vigil ban, returning after it was lifted (this was mentioned in both Wolfheart and Cataclysm and the twins in Azsuna are examples, other examples are the lorekeeper highborne in Azshara zone the horde hero fights). The Highborne incorporate all of this, if the Farondis became playable is as simply restored night elves or an allied race on the alliance, it is likely they would be merged with this group or the group merged with them.
We can explore that. They don't have to throw off their past completely, it would rather be their past selves because they've been like this for nearly 15k years not just 10k years (or from however long Suramar was built to present), rather other things get introduced that can allow them to be a little different. Elune can play a role, or alternative, Elune can only be a part of the highborne and can serve as one of the distinguishing factors. Elune doesn't have to play a role in the nightborne, I just mention my preference, you would be very valid in saying, no you prefer the nightborne to take a different route, and this Elune Order play a apart in the highborne like it did in the pre-sundering era or in a different way. As we've never seen how the elune order played a role (it was only described), it would be something worth showing in one of the communities.
But it is things like this, (not limited to them) that makes this topic interesting. So if you're gonna say they should be more like blood elves, are you saying anything that is kaldorei related shouldn't be a part of them? Do you view their arcane culture as not kaldorei ? because it is, so only the things present in the Darnassians (like Elune and druidsm) should be absent in the nightborne, and they should only retain the pure arcane kaldorei aspects? If you are saying this then what exactly is that, and how would you show it different from the blood elf one - because it is different, but how will you bring this out.. as much as nightborne are no longer Kaldorei, they are even less so Sin'dorei - you make that point, so if your solution is to just make them indistinguishable from the sin'dorei then that's rather lame and un-interesting.
You had big new player night elves, and the big new ancient bad, their arch nemesis the Burning legion, you also had the Scourge undead with tis powerful new leader and the twists and turns of a story that at first is a mystery turned zombie movie turned fantasy turned supernatural as one thing excitingly leads to the other and you meet so many cool things, night elves were quite cool with their magical and immortal background (I read the manual first, and allowed the manual to frame my definition of the race which sometimes causes me to be at odds with other posters on night elves who tend to ignore written content on only base their assessment on in game visuals), then the creepy undead scourge, and while undead or zombies aren't new, he fit them into his universe in very good way, especially with a magical Undead king, the Lich King.. then the new evil, the demons, not being single agents but part of an invading force, with cool new models that were horribly terrifying, they felt evil and you had this night elf race who had fought em off once before facing a dire threat that had marked their lives for the last 10k years in a state they couldn't move on from because of this enemy their last 10k years existence was designed to prevent ever returning -- it was exciting and touching - how anyone expected the night elves to remain in wood elf mode after the Legion returns knowing the backstory is incredibly beyond me, I can only assume those people didn't know the backstory or never bothered to factor the race beyond - but as you can see from my posts - I am the sort of player that doesn't wait till blizzard expands the lore, I start imagining and planning the what next, what might it look like - it is exactly this that gives me passion to keep playing - it is looking ahead - for any who wonder why I seem a bit obsessed with it - this is the aspect of the franchise I am drawn too.)