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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Certainly hope so, I love new races. Fingers crossed for Saberon for Horde!
    Saberon would be my guess for worgen, and Lightforged undead, on opposing factions like the elves.

    Except Lightforged undead just sounds terrible to me...how can u dead be Lightforged? Does this universe intend on breaking ALL its rules?

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Certainly hope so, I love new races. Fingers crossed for Saberon for Horde!
    Same here. New races and classes are, by far, my top 'most excited for this' new features.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    What are statistics should you look for? The only thing I can think of is

    1. People who brought BFA and played the expansion because of Allied Races primarily
    2. Everyone who paid for a character race or faction change to or because of an allied race.

    Any other things that might contribute to this?

    In your opinion how much additional revenue do you feel they have generated?
    I have no idea about the numbers, but I would guess it's very profitable, specially since most of the races use existing rigs and animations. The production time and cost to make them is not as big as Blizzard wants people to believe. The whole thing about "making new races takes time" is just a trick to justify releasing them very slowly. Making a brand new race does take time, making a copy like Nightbornes and such, not that big of a deal.

    The overall project of making new races and slowly releasing them keeps a lot of people in the game to unlock them and play new toons, makes the game feel more alive than it would without the new races, and of course like you mentioned there's the race changes and transfers that generate direct money. I can't imagine a way this is not a good and profitable business model for such an easy to produce content.
    Last edited by CrawlFromThePit; 2020-01-10 at 04:52 PM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Agreed..



    High elves would have undoubtedly been extremely popular as well, as people have asked for them relentlessly since BC. Hell *I* made a topic on the forums asking for them in BC.
    I'm not so sure, when I picked up the void elf it felt a lot like the blood elf, and now I think the only reason I stick to it is because it has a very unique vibe of it's own that also looks/feels cool.

    I would not have remade any blood elf characters if they were high elves and offered nothing more than blue eyes or very minor differences.

    I suspect, high elves as just blue eye coloured blood elves would have been popular amongst the elf loving Alliance fan community, but perhaps not achieved the rush void elves have. Personally I think the void elf backlash is coming from a small minority of alliance players, who have every right to feel betrayed and annoyed because I understand how they feel.

    But a few months down the line, to me without a doubt, void elf was the better choice. Now if they had taken a high elf concept like that massive post @DecideHu made shortly after their release, any one of those high elf versions could have been something different and would give void elves a real run.

    I'm thinking of the much wider playing community that doesnt care about racial lore...they make up the majority of the players, and I dont think they are that bothered that nod elves are on the horde, high elves on the alliance would be a what's the point to them

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    I have no idea about the numbers, but I would guess it's very profitable, specially since most of the races use existing rigs and animations. The production time and cost to make them is not as big as Blizzard wants people to believe. The whole thing about "making new races takes time" is just a trick to justify releasing them very slowly. Making a brand new race does take time, making a copy like Nightbornes and such, not that big of a deal.

    The overall project of makign new races and slowly releasing them keeps a lot of people in the game to unlock them and play new toons, makes the game feel more alive than it would without the new races, and of course like you mentioned there's the race changes and transfers that general direct money. I can't imagine a way this is not a good and profitable business model for such an easy to produce content.
    Good response, thanks, I was also thinking about that a lot, they have a low cost production cycle. You don't need a starting area for them because you've already weaved that into the content patch, ti's a new mechanism for creating races that is more efficient, and allows back groudn through the reptuation you earn for them.

    I think it was a mistake not to make Searing gorge, BRD quests part of the rep gain for Dark Irons, and they shoudl have at least isolated part of the WoD storyline for Mag'har orcs -- the content they are found iin serves as a starter/introduction, if you di t well like Kul'tirans/Zandalari/Vulpera --- even Mechagnomes, then that is no starting required, no new rig required either, just skins and face adjustments... they can be made a lot easier.. this allows more to be added more quickly, and as yous ay a reason to keep playing, level new toons even race change, which keeps you subscribied.

    Where I disagree with blizzard is the value o story, doing racia lore is a great motivation for me to level new races. If each race had a campaign that churned out lore about it thorugh new campaign quests etc that continued the lor eof th e races , I would have a huge incnetive to play even more characters again just to experience that. I would connect allied races to their parent race too. Vulpera I would tie to goblins, but they are sort of the first race not to be racially linked to a major race.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Same here. New races and classes are, by far, my top 'most excited for this' new features.
    Here too, they add so much replay value!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Saberon would be my guess for worgen, and Lightforged undead, on opposing factions like the elves.

    Except Lightforged undead just sounds terrible to me...how can u dead be Lightforged? Does this universe intend on breaking ALL its rules?
    I'm not entirely sold on Lightforged Undead either, it'll just look like a human if it looks like Calia, and with humans getting more customize options, it sounds like the Alliance getting shafted again (Mechagnomes while Horde gets a whole new looking race.) Problem is, Alliance doesn't have as many unplayable cool races that share the Undead rig.

  6. #26
    An educated guess: Yes, they make some money from Allied Races for sure. From me alone, those WoW-tokens people buy to get gold for 20 euros, that I then buy for gold, has made blizzard at least 300 euros from Allied Race changes. At least. If 10.000 more is like me, then you have 3 million euros from that.

    And yeah, Allied Races are popular. Void Elves being the most popular one. Soon taking over Draeneis spot, then only Humans and Night Elves left on alliance side :>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Certainly hope so, I love new races. Fingers crossed for Saberon for Horde!
    Undead High Elves plz.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    An educated guess: Yes, they make some money from Allied Races for sure. From me alone, those WoW-tokens people buy to get gold for 20 euros, that I then buy for gold, has made blizzard at least 300 euros from Allied Race changes. At least. If 10.000 more is like me, then you have 3 million euros from that.

    And yeah, Allied Races are popular. Void Elves being the most popular one. Soon taking over Draeneis spot, then only Humans and Night Elves left on alliance side :>

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    Undead High Elves plz.
    There'd be outrage if blizard gave high elves as undead to alliance (although many a high elf lover made DK BEs to have the blue eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm not entirely sold on Lightforged Undead either, it'll just look like a human if it looks like Calia, and with humans getting more customize options, it sounds like the Alliance getting shafted again (Mechagnomes while Horde gets a whole new looking race.) Problem is, Alliance doesn't have as many unplayable cool races that share the Undead rig.
    then they should invent some, like they did void elves, but instead of just plunk it in, do a proper zone/story for them. Now vampires would be a cool addition instead of lightforged. However if it came in a patch like 8.2 already neural, it will never become alliance, because it would be too cool, and blizzard won't resist giving it to the horde

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    There'd be outrage if blizard gave high elves as undead to alliance (although many a high elf lover made DK BEs to have the blue eyes.
    No, I mean undead High Elves for Horde. As the Undead Allied Race. I mean, they are already there, undead High Elves.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

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  9. #29
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Good response, thanks, I was also thinking about that a lot, they have a low cost production cycle. You don't need a starting area for them because you've already weaved that into the content patch, ti's a new mechanism for creating races that is more efficient, and allows back groudn through the reptuation you earn for them.

    I think it was a mistake not to make Searing gorge, BRD quests part of the rep gain for Dark Irons, and they shoudl have at least isolated part of the WoD storyline for Mag'har orcs -- the content they are found iin serves as a starter/introduction, if you di t well like Kul'tirans/Zandalari/Vulpera --- even Mechagnomes, then that is no starting required, no new rig required either, just skins and face adjustments... they can be made a lot easier.. this allows more to be added more quickly, and as yous ay a reason to keep playing, level new toons even race change, which keeps you subscribied.

    Where I disagree with blizzard is the value o story, doing racia lore is a great motivation for me to level new races. If each race had a campaign that churned out lore about it thorugh new campaign quests etc that continued the lor eof th e races , I would have a huge incnetive to play even more characters again just to experience that. I would connect allied races to their parent race too. Vulpera I would tie to goblins, but they are sort of the first race not to be racially linked to a major race.
    Yeah, I also think it's sad that allied races don't have a real beginning story like the main races. Even for races that I had absolutely no interest of playing as a main, I would still make an alt just to experience the beginning content and I enjoyed all of them. I would retire the toon after but it's still fun times that I was pretty bummed out to not get with the allied races =/
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    No, I mean undead High Elves for Horde. As the Undead Allied Race. I mean, they are already there, undead High Elves.
    Ah, okay.. yeh, that would work.. were you think like the Dark rangers sylvannas has.. darkfallen types or more vampiry types like the San'layn??

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Undead High Elves plz.
    Argh, that could just be Undead customization!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    then they should invent some, like they did void elves, but instead of just plunk it in, do a proper zone/story for them. Now vampires would be a cool addition instead of lightforged. However if it came in a patch like 8.2 already neural, it will never become alliance, because it would be too cool, and blizzard won't resist giving it to the horde
    Vampires might be bordering on the cheesy. San'layn are essentially WoW's version of vampires. I mean, what's a vampire but a human with fangs in the traditional media? I think for the Alliance to get a cool allied race, Blizzard has to get off the formulaic rig shtick. Give Alliance Jinyu or Furbolg, something desired by the player base that makes sense but isn't restricted to the rig swap thing.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    What sort of variables might there be?

    Can they be determined?

    where would you gather the data from? My first stab would be to look at the data for character race and faction changes.

    Then look at the data for how many people did the unlocking quests. i would also look at how many paid for level boosts and made an allied race character with that.

    I would also do a survey from a cross section sample of players. probably via an in game box
    Mate, where in fuckall are you going to get access to any of that data? You'd spend hours compiling data and making spreadsheets just to know? You would survey people to find out something as useless as this?

    Apply for a job at Blizzard's financial department. I would rather watch paint dry than process the myriad steps you're proposing just to find out if Allied races were "worth" it to Blizzard's shareholders.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Argh, that could just be Undead customization!
    Yup, here is me hoping for it be a thing in Shadowlands!

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Ah, okay.. yeh, that would work.. were you think like the Dark rangers sylvannas has.. darkfallen types or more vampiry types like the San'layn??
    More like Sylvanas yeah.
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  14. #34
    The allied races were mostly a bust. There are maybe 5% of each faction which play these races. Most people seem content with their character race choice and find the grind to unlock the races is unnecessarily tedious. Blizzard is realizing everyone just wants more cosmetic changes to the characters they already play and giving us that in Shadowlands.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MatadorMedia View Post
    The allied races were mostly a bust. There are maybe 5% of each faction which play these races. Most people seem content with their character race choice and find the grind to unlock the races is unnecessarily tedious. Blizzard is realizing everyone just wants more cosmetic changes to the characters they already play and giving us that in Shadowlands.
    You think so? You see I dont, but there is no way to prove it or even begin to determine this unless someone comes up with a genius idea.

    The cosmetic changes dont seem that much. Compared to just war paints for Trolls and Dwardfs, or full flesh for forsaken, in an allied race you get:

    New faces
    Mew skins
    New hairstyles
    New emotes
    New hair colours
    Some new extra features
    New racials
    New story

    That is a lot more detailed variation than character customisation would give, I made a poll post here of what you felt would have been the better option to go with

  16. #36
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatadorMedia View Post
    The allied races were mostly a bust. There are maybe 5% of each faction which play these races. Most people seem content with their character race choice and find the grind to unlock the races is unnecessarily tedious. Blizzard is realizing everyone just wants more cosmetic changes to the characters they already play and giving us that in Shadowlands.
    Void elves are hugely popular, and have overtaken most of the original playable races on Alliance side. By that measure alone, you're wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Argh, that could just be Undead customization!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Vampires might be bordering on the cheesy. San'layn are essentially WoW's version of vampires. I mean, what's a vampire but a human with fangs in the traditional media? I think for the Alliance to get a cool allied race, Blizzard has to get off the formulaic rig shtick. Give Alliance Jinyu or Furbolg, something desired by the player base that makes sense but isn't restricted to the rig swap thing.
    They would have to remake Jinyu from the ground up, as their models are not compatible with player armor sets.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    They would have to remake Jinyu from the ground up, as their models are not compatible with player armor sets.
    Oh boo, well, it'd be like the Nightborne then. The NPC Nightborne had to be re-made into what we now know as the playable Nightborne model, and it wouldn't be much work since it uses the night elf rig.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Worgen and undead have yet to receive an allied race counterpart, there's room for 2 more on the allied race selection screen, and the embassies are arranged in a way as to scream 'room for one more banner here!' so there are almost certainly 2 more coming.
    Please no. With how BfA's ending shaped up we're likely to get either undead Night Elven sad sacks crawling over to Calia or Calia pulling more Lightforged undead out of her ass. Both options are drastically inferior to no undead allied race. Let's have Gilgoblins instead under the premise of "welp, the Vulpera may have been a tad too different from the Goblins for them to count as their counterpart".
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Void elves are hugely popular, and have overtaken most of the original playable races on Alliance side. By that measure alone, you're wrong.
    I'm not sure where you get your data from other than you notice some Void Elves hanging out in Boralus. According to World of Wargraphs, the Void Elf population at 120 is 4.5% ... which is easily the highest of all the allied races, but still the 9th most played race overall. Zandalari Troll is the second most high of the allied races with 3.3%.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I'm not entirely sold on Lightforged Undead either, it'll just look like a human if it looks like Calia, and with humans getting more customize options, it sounds like the Alliance getting shafted again (Mechagnomes while Horde gets a whole new looking race.) Problem is, Alliance doesn't have as many unplayable cool races that share the Undead rig.
    Why should it be the Alliance to get an AR with Undead rig in the first place? Your problem rests on a weird assertion.


    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Ah, okay.. yeh, that would work.. were you think like the Dark rangers sylvannas has.. darkfallen types or more vampiry types like the San'layn??
    Darkfallen and San'layn are the same thing...


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    More like Sylvanas yeah.
    Why not both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ San'layn aren't all that different from Dark Rangers. They are both undead Thalassians after all. Throw in some customization of fangs vs no fangs and maybe claws vs no claws on top of the necessary eye and skin color range to cover both and you're set.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

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