Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Rinnegan2 View Post
    Blizzard says that if they made essences account-wide, then players would play less.

    Players say that if Blizzard made essences account-wide, then they would play more.

    who is right? who is wrong?

    I think it depends on the type of content. essences are a form of content.
    the following framework can be used to decide what should and what shouldn't be account-wide in the future:


    I would argue, that essences are a form of content that is intended for everyone, in which case they should be made account-wide.

    what do you think?

    update:

    hardcore player = a player who completes difficult content, that isn't intended for everyone

    1. the main of a hardcore player, who can overcome difficult content, should have access to the best gear and to unique, character-specific status symbols (cosmetics).
    2. the alt of a hardcore player and the main of a casual player are usually at the same stage, where they try to complete difficult content together.
    3. right now - because of essences not being account-wide - hardcore players don't have alts, which means casuals have way less people/groups to play with.

    the main reason for WoW's success over the years:
    I play another new game, I've bought on Steam, now. It's content is a little bit monotonous, but I clearly see, what motivations to continue playing this game I have.

    There are two kinds of content: one-time and repetitive.

    1) Repetitive content is usually driven by some sort of task or even puzzle, you need to solve. This is the only place, where RNG is tolerable. Because it changes input variables of this task and therefore allows you to play this game differently.

    I usually use poker as great example of such content. You have random cards and you have to deal with them somewhat. Your motivation - is to try to play better this time.

    2) One-time content. When it's done, you no longer want to do it again. And it's usually driven by following things:

    a) Exploration. Even if I do the same things over and over again, when I get rewards, I can spend them on unlocking some new features. Therefore interest to try all that new features drives my motivation to continue playing this game. When I will see them all, it won't be interesting for me to do all the same things again.
    b) Story. Not important part for me, cuz game isn't book or movie. I should play it, not read or watch. If game is story driven, then it's usually easier to play it on YouTube. And of course what is seen, can't be unseen. Story isn't interesting for the second time.
    c) Achievements. It's usually about "Yeah, game is monotonous, but I just want to complete X, Y, Z to feel satisfied". Or "I just want to do this thing better, than before, therefore I'll try it again".
    d) Customization. Something similar to Achievements, but purely playstyle changing or even cosmetic. I want to try this talents, then I want to try that ones. It's racing game? First I want to paint my car blue. Then I want to try red. Etc.

    So. To what category things like rep grinds, AP grinds, essence grinds fall? To repeatable or one-time? Sure, they're one-time. And therefore they should be account-wide. Because it's player, who plays the game - not character. Player just can't forget everything and start from scratch. Bring the player, not content©.

    Problem is - Blizzard treat some kinds of content as some sorts of character progression, similar to gearing for example. So, when we say, that we want them account-wide, they usually treat it as "Send epics on my alt's mail, cuz I've earned them on my main" and ask that "Why do you need alt, if you don't want to play it?" question. But they don't understand, that it's not the same. And there are other reasons to play alts, than just do all grinds again, again and again. It's usually about things, mentioned above. About exploration, trying new things, playing game a little bit differently, completing "Play all classes/specs" achievement. So, all that grinds become restrictions on available content - not bring more content to us.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2020-01-16 at 07:36 AM.

  2. #182
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,990
    i like to play raids.
    i like to play dungeons.
    i like a bit of a challenge.
    i like playing alts. i like it a lot, because i am bored of my „main“ class after a few months.

    that said:

    this leads to a mindset, where you wanna get alts relatively fast rdy, to raid (at least) heroic (or first few mythic bosses) on a somewhat competitive level. in older xpacs this was possible. but in newer xpacs, with essences, ap and whatever, not so.

    the fact that this is the case and i can switch my main not relatively fast, is HEAVILY driving me away of the game.

    i am the same oppinion as op. once done with a character, it should be account wide. i have no fun in grinding shit a thousand times again. i have fun playing the contents (raids and dungeons or even pvp) of the game.

    if you have one main and for the rest of your life, or at least xpac, just playing this char, well then you are fine and new xpacs are made for you.

    if you are like me, you have not that much fun in wow these days.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-01-16 at 06:14 AM.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    i like to play raids.
    i like to play dungeons.
    i like a bit of a challenge.
    i like playing alts. i like it a lot, because i am bored of my „main“ class after a few months.

    that said:

    this leads to a mindset, where you wanna get alts relatively fast rdy, to raid (at least) heroic (or first few mythic bosses) on a somewhat competitive level. in older xpacs this was possible. but in newer xpacs, with essences, ap and whatever, not so.

    the fact that this is the case and i can switch my main not relatively fast, is HEAVILY driving me away of the game.

    i am the same oppinion as op. once done with a character, it should be account wide. i have no fun in grinding shit a thousand times again. i have fun playing the contents (raids and dungeons or even pvp) of the game.

    if you have one main and for the rest of your life, or at least xpac, just playing this char, well then you are fine and new xpacs are made for you.

    if you are like me, you have not that much fun in wow these days.
    Blizzard don't tell it directly, but they see alts as a problem. They see them as the way to bypass their time-gates, that are intended to limit amount of content/rewards, available to your character. You have only one emissary on your main, but you have extra one on your alt. This can also be seen as some sort of unfair advantage vs players, who want to play one character only. Simple example? Two characters = two chances to get rare mount. This is also technical problem for Blizzard, as they don't want you to hit 50 characters cap and ask for even more character slots.

    They tried this back in Draenor. Many players started to level 10..20..50 characters to get as much gold, as possible. Blizzard just think, that it's not healthy for their game.

    But they also don't want to make literally everything account-wide (i.e. all lockouts and CDs) to solve this problem. As some players use alts, when they run out of content. And there is never too much content. Even with all that rep/AP grinds.

    Result - they allow alts, but want to restrict them to may be 1-2. 3 max.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2020-01-16 at 07:56 AM.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    But your Alts don't deserve it unless they also push 20+ keys. Saying otherwise is like saying all of your main warrior gear from mythic raids should be able to be used by your alt paladin 3v3n though it dinged 120 17 minutes ago.
    I don't think you understand.

    It's not about getting "free things" on your alts.

    It's about the acquisition method.

    I don't mind putting in effort on alts to get gear etc. however, I would prefer to be able to put effort into content that I enjoy.

    Having to grind battlegrounds on alts (which are not engaging at all and require no skill) to be able to efficiently do high-end m+ is bad game design in my opinion. Personally, I think battlegrounds is the most shit content. They are so freaking boring. I would rather kill mythic Aszhara 10 times than do one battleground.

    When Blizzard pushes people towards content that they don't enjoy, it will just result in those people playing the game less. It's a lose-lose situation.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-01-16 at 07:55 AM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Then why isn't all gear account wide. There is no content not designed for everyone bar class restrictions. If you have cleared mythic raids and got all the gear, why shouldn't that gear be able to be used by your Alts? This is what you are saying when you think esscences should be account wide.
    the gear you get from completing content that is intended for everyone is only marginally better than the 410 item level catch-up gear, which is, in fact, account-wide.

    every reward that comes from content that isn't intended for everyone (1400 arena rating or higher, mythic+7 or higher, heroic raiding or higher) should obviously not be account-wide.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    WoW is still notionally an RPG. I could never explain within the lore how unlocking a mount on my paladin suddenly allows my mage to ride it... and this applies to all account-wide unlock, really.
    I know you weren't replying to me on this part, but:

    Does the lore explain how the big bads of each raid are magically alive each week, with new loot every time? Or how mounts pop out of nowhere, not even taking up space in a backpack, or needing to be fed?

    There are certain times where the 4th wall of the RPG has to make way for game mechanics, because at the end of the day it's also a game. Account-wide stuff falls under that, IMO, largely because the game is being played by a human being behind the keyboard(Most of the time. Cats and bots don't count). And while it's certainly true that some players enjoy the full investment of time in each and every character they have, I don't think that needs to be enforced for every player.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    I would be very much behind a system like reputations in Pandaria, but the various requirements of essence acquisition would make this one a headache.
    Well, essences are going away next expansion anyway, so it's not that big of a deal. But if we get some new iteration of them, I would REALLY hope that more consideration is put into them and how alts fit into the equation.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I know you weren't replying to me on this part, but:

    Does the lore explain how the big bads of each raid are magically alive each week, with new loot every time? Or how mounts pop out of nowhere, not even taking up space in a backpack, or needing to be fed?

    There are certain times where the 4th wall of the RPG has to make way for game mechanics, because at the end of the day it's also a game. Account-wide stuff falls under that, IMO, largely because the game is being played by a human being behind the keyboard(Most of the time. Cats and bots don't count). And while it's certainly true that some players enjoy the full investment of time in each and every character they have, I don't think that needs to be enforced for every player.
    Which is why you don't see me making threads about it.

    And your example is not bad, but there is a slight difference: Raid bosses living again every week has always been this way. It is baked into the premise of the game. Of the genre, really. Account-wide mounts are a later change, caving in to players - so I accept it works this way but do not find it inherent.

  8. #188
    Thats the reason why i refuse to make an alt. Give acc wide shit = more alts or just alt. They bind me to my char not because im trully on it. Im binded to him because in some way i have to. I cant do proper alt so i just stick to one character. Im rerolling main between major patches and expansions but i mostly play one char for a long period of time.
    Last edited by czarek; 2020-01-16 at 12:47 PM.

  9. #189
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Netherstorm
    Posts
    4,834
    I earned Pathfinder only on my main. Therefore, by the logic of some folks ITT, only my main should be able to fly.
    "This world is a prison!"

  10. #190
    just played about 3 hours of 8.3 just thinking of the grindfest on all my characters I am seriously considering just quitting the damn thing, I just like raids, mythic plus and arenas, sick of flying around for hours looking for crappy rares, single player content is fine to do once but having to repeat ad nauseam with alts kills the game for me
    Last edited by Tamurello; 2020-01-16 at 05:07 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •