Old Gods and the Various Insectoid Races Who Serve Them

[TheRainman]

From my understanding all various insectoid / arachnid races are descendant from the original Aqir from long ago. Those being the Nerubians, the Qiraji, and the Mantid.

Not including N'Zoth, each race has been linked to the Old God of the expansion, lorewise at least. The Qiraji served C'Thun and are native to Kalimdor. The Nerubians served Yogg-Saron and were native to Northrend. While the Mantid served Y'Shaarj and were native to Pandaria.

Also in my understanding, in the time of the Black Empire the Old Gods were in a constant state of war with themselves. With battles and territories waxing and waning between the various four Old Gods.

So here we have three races of the aqir serving three of the four Old Gods, and no one directly connected with N'Zoth.

Fast foward to Cataclysm when N'Zoth starts being a bit more relevant to the modern WoW story, and he is primarily connected with the corruption of Neltharion and has cults who consequently follow Deathwing and his minions. And N'Zoth has also been said to be responsible for the transformation of Azshara and henceforth the Naga.

So I guess my question is this: How is the only of the four main Old Gods who has no connection to the ancient Aqir or their descendants and who seems more content to manipulate the other races from afar and rule through a proxy (Azshara, or Deathwing as an example) all of a sudden with 8.3 bring not one but two of the aforementioned insectoid races as allies (through raid bosses or world bosses)?

I'm not being cheeky, I am genuinely curious. Aside from the possible asspull of "last old god around, all the Black Empire races are banding together under his banner" sort of thing. If someone with a better grasp of Old God lore than I do has a lore based answer I would like to hear it.

[Molvonos]

I believe the Faceless are those linked to N'Zoth, and mildly break the mold by being cephalopods instead of something chitinous.

Most likely N'zoth sent them to 'help' the other Old Gods, being he was considered the 'smartest'. That's my take on it at least.

[Villager720]

I think the aqir were just "naturally" spawned from the bodies of all the Old Gods - thus it would make sense for N'zoth to command them.
As for the Mantid and the Qiraji, if their chosen god isn't around to command them anymore, I don't see why they wouldn't gravitate towards another. I mean, after all, they're still "sort of" aqir.

[Molvonos]

So to expand on my earlier post.

The N'raqi are the squid/octopi/Faceless Ones, and are the result of all of the Old Gods, kinda oozing everywhere and their 'offings' turning into Faceless (and likely Forgotten Ones). The Aqir, or the bugs, are also a result of all of the Old Gods, likely their blood/castings infecting native insects and turning them into Nerubians, Mantids, and Qiraji. Or rather, the Aqir that didn't get cast underground evolved into these different types, or perhaps they gathered around an Old God that they were attuned to or geometrically separated and evolved as a result.

But I can't find any information that specifically states that any Old God specifically created the Nerubians/Qiraji/Mantids though. The Aqir that went north, after being split by the Troll Wars, became Nerubians, those that went south became Qiraji, and the Mantids evolved after Pandaria split off in the fashion it did.

So really, the association we have for the insect races and their 'associated' Old Gods, is merely a result of proximity. Especially since the living Nerubians not only hate(d) The Lich King, but didn't want anything to do with the Old Gods either (according to lore).

[Villager720]

Especially since the living Nerubians not only hate(d) The Lich King, but didn't want anything to do with the Old Gods either (according to lore).

Where is this stated? Everything I'd seen had them still being Old God affiliated (faceless ones being present in Ahn'kahet, the Old Kingdom and such).

[Molvonos]

Where is this stated? Everything I'd seen had them still being Old God affiliated (faceless ones being present in Ahn'kahet, the Old Kingdom and such).

Two sources:

1. Wowpedia: "At some point after becoming nerubians, their society broke away and opposed the Old Gods that their people once served as aqir, specifically Yogg-Saron.[5]" This should be taken with a grain of salt, but I imagine they got their information from somewhere credible, I just haven't dug enough.

2. WoW - Ahn'kahet: The Faceless Ones quest

Seer Ixit: (Quest wants you to kill 3 Faceless Ones and Herald Volazj)
In my peoples' struggle against the forces of the undead, they dug deeper as they lost ground.

They inadvertently exposed minions of the Old Gods known only as the Faceless.

In the end, we could not fight a war on two fronts.

With your aid, perhaps the Faceless will finally fall.

-----

If they were allies to the Old Ones, specifically Yogg-Saron given its Northrend, they shouldn't have been attacked/killed by the Faceless Ones. This is speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.

[Golden Yak]

My understanding is that the Old Gods all initially spawned pure aqir, in their most primal forms. The nerubian, mantid, and qiraji (and possibly the silithid) are all descendants of the original aqir who adapted to their various climes.

N'Zoth's aqir servants may either be ancient aqir who have been in hiding/hibernation all this time, or even newly spawned aqir created by N'Zoth. If they've been hiding all this time, it could be that these are N'Zoth's originally spawned servants who were sent into hiding by him, presumably at the time of the war with the Titans - if N'Zoth is as cunning as has been said, N'Zoth may have foreseen the inevitable fall of the Old Gods to the Titans and decided to preserve his armies rather than have them be utterly destroyed.

As for N'Zoth securing the loyalty of the remaining aqir-descendant races, this I actually have no problem with. The mantid mentioned that their races, including their 'sister-empires' worshiped the Old Gods, and the mantid flat out stated "If the Old Ones ever return, we mantid will once again stand by their side", even while expressing knowledge that Y'Shaarj had been destroyed. So the mantid may have chiefly worshiped Y'Shaarj in the past, but are more than willing to throw in with any of the Old Gods.

[Molvonos]

My understanding is that the Old Gods all initially spawned pure aqir, in their most primal forms. The nerubian, mantid, and qiraji (and possibly the silithid) are all descendants of the original aqir who adapted to their various climes.

N'Zoth's aqir servants may either be ancient aqir who have been in hiding/hibernation all this time, or even newly spawned aqir created by N'Zoth. If they've been hiding all this time, it could be that these are N'Zoth's originally spawned servants who were sent into hiding by him, presumably at the time of the war with the Titans - if N'Zoth is as cunning as has been said, N'Zoth may have foreseen the inevitable fall of the Old Gods to the Titans and decided to preserve his armies rather than have them be utterly destroyed.

As for N'Zoth securing the loyalty of the remaining aqir-descendant races, this I actually have no problem with. The mantid mentioned that their races, including their 'sister-empires' worshiped the Old Gods, and the mantid flat out stated "If the Old Ones ever return, we mantid will once again stand by their side", even while expressing knowledge that Y'Shaarj had been destroyed. So the mantid may have chiefly worshiped Y'Shaarj in the past, but are more than willing to throw in with any of the Old Gods.

Or even anyone of sufficient power that wields the Old Gods power (I.E. Garrosh at the end of SoO).

[Golden Yak]

Or even anyone of sufficient power that wields the Old Gods power (I.E. Garrosh at the end of SoO).

Sure. From the Paragon dialogue, it sounded like they still considered Y'Shaarj to be active. Personally, I've always thought it was possible that Y'Shaarj was attempting to revive itself through the Heart by using Garrosh. Similar to how C'Thun was nearly revived by Cho'Gall (Garrosh and Cho'Gall also both attained similar transformations, becoming like avatars for fallen Old Gods).

In any case, if the aqir are willing dead versions of their gods, it's not a stretch to think they would jump at the chance to serve a living one.

[Razion]

Where is this stated? Everything I'd seen had them still being Old God affiliated (faceless ones being present in Ahn'kahet, the Old Kingdom and such).

The Nerubians fought the Old God's forces and the Lich King's forces on two fronts long ago. In current day, there's at least one section of Nerubian that instigate the rebellion against the Scourge (led by Kilix the Unraveler) players see when doing Azjol-Nerub dungeon in Dragonblight who directly oppose the Lich King. Kilix references when fighting Scourge Nerubians, "Betrayers! The day of reckoning comes and with it comes your end! See then if your Lich King saves you from the ancient one's judgement! Now you die!" The Ancient One is powerful servant of the Old Gods that was vanquished long ago. Meanwhile, Seer Ixit sends the player on quests in Ahn'kahet to dispose of Old God Faceless Ones. Seer Ixit thanks players for ridding the Nerubians of the threat they fight on both fronts. And again meanwhile, throughout Icecrown we see Faceless Ones controlling slaves in the Saronite Mines in very close proximity to the Frozen Throne to the point where they're entirely surrounded by and perhaps guarded by Scourge Vrykul forces.

It seems to me that Seer Ixit and Kilix would be at odds with each other, one opposing and one siding with Old Gods, while one controls Ahn'kahet and the other Azjol-Nerub. Regardless, the Nerubians have a long history of being enemies with the Old God forces before and it's only recently that the Nerubians on Kilix end that the players helped out allude to being on the side of at the very least the Ancient One and by extension Old God forces. But since the Ancient One is presumably long dead and the status of his alignment in WoW not really actually being established, the true alignment of them is still technically up in the air.

[Salty Schro]

Sure. From the Paragon dialogue, it sounded like they still considered Y'Shaarj to be active. Personally, I've always thought it was possible that Y'Shaarj was attempting to revive itself through the Heart by using Garrosh. Similar to how C'Thun was nearly revived by Cho'Gall (Garrosh and Cho'Gall also both attained similar transformations, becoming like avatars for fallen Old Gods).

In any case, if the aqir are willing dead versions of their gods, it's not a stretch to think they would jump at the chance to serve a living one.

I would love to see an alternate universe where Garrosh didn't loose the heart. I can almost imagine a unified entity growing from the body of Garrosh.

[WraithKingOstarion]

the mantid/nerubians/qiraji are all descendants of the original aqir (that spawned from the old gods directly). they branched off into 3 separate colonies - pandaria, northrend, and silithus respectively and became the mantid/nerubians/qiraji that we know of today.

[Villager720]

Two sources:

1. Wowpedia: "At some point after becoming nerubians, their society broke away and opposed the Old Gods that their people once served as aqir, specifically Yogg-Saron.[5]" This should be taken with a grain of salt, but I imagine they got their information from somewhere credible, I just haven't dug enough.

2. WoW - Ahn'kahet: The Faceless Ones quest

Seer Ixit: (Quest wants you to kill 3 Faceless Ones and Herald Volazj)
In my peoples' struggle against the forces of the undead, they dug deeper as they lost ground.

They inadvertently exposed minions of the Old Gods known only as the Faceless.

In the end, we could not fight a war on two fronts.

With your aid, perhaps the Faceless will finally fall.

-----

If they were allies to the Old Ones, specifically Yogg-Saron given its Northrend, they shouldn't have been attacked/killed by the Faceless Ones. This is speculation on my part, but it seems to make sense.

Good info - thank you much. Props to them for not being pawns to their absentee parent.

[matrix123mko]

These different kinds of insectoids evolved from aqir after fall of the Black Empire. As N'zoth lives far from these races, he uses classic aqir.

[Aucald]

These different kinds of insectoids evolved from aqir after fall of the Black Empire. As N'zoth lives far from these races, he uses classic aqir.

N'Zoth has also called the Mantid into his service, as represented by Grand Empress Shek'zara's presence as a World Boss in 8.3. With Y'Shaarj's apparent death in MoP it seems the Mantid have a new paymaster.

[matrix123mko]

N'Zoth has also called the Mantid into his service, as represented by Grand Empress Shek'zara's presence as a World Boss in 8.3. With Y'Shaarj's apparent death in MoP it seems the Mantid have a new paymaster.

Oh, yes. I forgot about that. I guess it has something to do with his new modus operandi. Do you think he will employ silithids?

[khazmodan]

I only have one contribution to make to this thread....

[cparle87]

From my understanding all various insectoid / arachnid races are descendant from the original Aqir from long ago. Those being the Nerubians, the Qiraji, and the Mantid.

Not including N'Zoth, each race has been linked to the Old God of the expansion, lorewise at least. The Qiraji served C'Thun and are native to Kalimdor. The Nerubians served Yogg-Saron and were native to Northrend. While the Mantid served Y'Shaarj and were native to Pandaria.

Also in my understanding, in the time of the Black Empire the Old Gods were in a constant state of war with themselves. With battles and territories waxing and waning between the various four Old Gods.

So here we have three races of the aqir serving three of the four Old Gods, and no one directly connected with N'Zoth.

Fast foward to Cataclysm when N'Zoth starts being a bit more relevant to the modern WoW story, and he is primarily connected with the corruption of Neltharion and has cults who consequently follow Deathwing and his minions. And N'Zoth has also been said to be responsible for the transformation of Azshara and henceforth the Naga.

So I guess my question is this: How is the only of the four main Old Gods who has no connection to the ancient Aqir or their descendants and who seems more content to manipulate the other races from afar and rule through a proxy (Azshara, or Deathwing as an example) all of a sudden with 8.3 bring not one but two of the aforementioned insectoid races as allies (through raid bosses or world bosses)?

I'm not being cheeky, I am genuinely curious. Aside from the possible asspull of "last old god around, all the Black Empire races are banding together under his banner" sort of thing. If someone with a better grasp of Old God lore than I do has a lore based answer I would like to hear it.

Your so-called "asspull" was actually right on the money. All those insectoid races exist to advance their masters' (collectively the Old Gods) plans. Remember that the Paragons of the Klaxxi jumped to assist Garrosh for no other reason than he was using the Heart to cause destruction.

[Molvonos]

Oh, yes. I forgot about that. I guess it has something to do with his new modus operandi. Do you think he will employ silithids?

I'm pretty sure the Silithid/Qiraji and Mantids would be more than happy to willingly serve N'Zoth regardless of the situation, since the Qiraji and Mantids revere all of the Old Gods as their penultimate masters. And the Silithid are more bestial, less intelligent, so it'd likely be easy to enlist them.

It's only the Nerubians who seem to have grown more free will, or perhaps there was an interaction that came about as a result of The Lich King killing and enslaving most of their species that allowed them to go 'Hey, wait. Maybe our masters aren't awesome.'

I kind of hope they, someday and somehow, they explore more of the nerubian's lore, since they're the only race that goes above and beyond 'NPC' and 'Unabashedly Evil' mentality. The mantid were close until the heart of Y'shaarj got involved.

[Aucald]

Oh, yes. I forgot about that. I guess it has something to do with his new modus operandi. Do you think he will employ silithids?

The Sillithid are essentially mindless (barring animal/insectoid cunning), so it's probably more he'd just take control of them as the Qiraji and C'Thun did - or he has no real need of them, and they're pretty few now given what happened to Silithus what with the Wound. As he seems to have some Aqiri in his ranks it's likely he'd just go with the original article - though the Mantid bring refinements and technology of their own cultivated over his long imprisonment.