If WoW went fully to Class instead of spec - what would become of multi-role classes?

[ravenmoon]

It is possible, that blizzard even after Shadowlands, could really go full on one class only, with the specs reverting to being more like talents that only slightly alter the playstyle.

Question is, what then becomes of multi-roled classes ?

Do they:

1. Maintain specs just for those classes and develop those specs like they were classes

2. Turn those specs into actual classes too
3. A bit of both, i.e. keep Warrior /Priest/DK/DH the same, but split Monk/Druid/Shaman/Paladin into new classes

Each of these options will result in a reduction of playstyles to manage:

Which would you prefer?

For point 3:
Monk, Shaman & Paladin becomes 2 classes each: One with tank/dps spec, one with heal and dps spec
Druid becomes 3 classes: tank/dps (feral/guardian) healer/dps (with undergrowth themed dps ) , balance class.

Go from 12 to 16 classes with small measure of specs

[effectively down from 36 to 20 playstyles to balance]

For Point 2:
It would mean, Warrior/Priest/DK/DH all split into 2 classes, Monk/Druid/Shaman/Paladin into 3 classes, Druid into 4 classes.
A tank class like Guardian, Protection, Vengeance will have sufficient dps through talents to make you kill stuff fast enough for levelling and WQs, however you'll need the tank talents for raiding and dungeons.

Go from 12 to 20 or 28 classes - but no specs

[Effectively down from 36 to 28 or 20 playstyle to balance]

Complexity:

Concept shifts in this re-shuffle: Classes return to the classic level of simplicity. Talents are what give variation to playstyle and are a little bit more complex as there are no more specs.
The main complexities come with the expansions: Legion's artefact weapons system, BFA's Azerite system, Shadowlands: Covenant system - now as we all know each of these get really complex, look at Azerite now, you have abilities on Azerite gear, the necklace has abilities, and now corruption and legendary also has abilities. This is where the complexity and variation comes, and each expansion blizzard gives you a new system to build your class up during that expansion. As for levelling, it is quite straightforward, but if you want a more complex experience choose to level in Legion, BFA or Shadowlands so you can enjoy their systems. Once you start the new expansion levelling range, you are stripped of those powers.

Example of New classes:

This is the example of the full 28 classes that could result in from option 3, if we go with option 2, the former dps specs become 1 class rather than 2 separate classes

Warrior Classes

Beserker - formally fury Warrior
Blademaster - formally Arms Warrior
Warrior - the Protection spec (swapping shield for weapon boosts your dps a lot)

Priest Classes

Locus Walker - formally Shadow priest
Sunwalker - formally Discipline spec
[Priest - the holy spec is now the priest spec, talents can add some more damage spell and dps]

Warlock Classes

Necromancer - formally the Unholy DK (switches to cloth too)
Blood Knight - formally the Bood DK
[Death Knight - the frost spec carries the class]

Druid Classes

Valewalker - formally the balance spec
Botanist - formally restoration
[Feral/Guardian - Druid Class ]

Alternatively:
Star Augur - formally the Balance class
Shapeshifter is Feral & Guardian spec
[Restoraton is the Druid class]

Shaman Classes

Chieftan or Faresser - formally the Enhancment spec
Elementalist - formally the Elemental spec
[Resto spec is now the Shaman ]

Paladin Classes

Templar or Exarch - formally Retribution spec
Anchorite or Templar - formally the Holy spec
[Protection spec is now the Paladin
For the 2 class option: Paladin (Prot/Ret and Templar (Holy)]

Demon Hunter Classes

Fel Lord - formally the Vengeance spec
[Havoc - remains the Demon Hunter]

Monk Classes

Brewmaster - formally the Brewmaster spec
Runemaster formally the Mistsinger spec
[Windwalker is the Monk class]


It is very unlikely that the pure dps class specs will become separate classes. However some might. my bet would be:

Hunter:

Beastmaster spec remains the Hunter
Marksmanship spec becomes the Ranger class
Survival spec is split between the above 2.

Warlock:

Affliction: spec becomes the Witch Doctor class
Demonology is now the Warlock
Destruction is is baked into demonology

Mage:

Arcane spec becomes the Arcanist class
Frost/FIre becomes the Mage class

Rogue:

Outlaw becomes the Pirate class
Assassination becomes the Assassin
Subtelety is the Rogue

[huth]

You'd get a major rebellion followed by quickly backpeddling the whole affair, that's what.

[Lodreh]

You'd get a major rebellion followed by quickly backpeddling the whole affair, that's what.

^This.

It's honestly not a terrible idea but it describes a new game... not WoW. I feel you could continue to add things to classes indefinitely but as soon as you take anything away there will be tons of backlash. This is one reason I'm curious as to how far are they going to push Class over Spec in Shadowlands.

[ravenmoon]

You'd get a major rebellion followed by quickly backpeddling the whole affair, that's what.

Rofl.. so true.. I can see it.. systems want sto lessen their workload, players are like.. BULLSHIT - stop being lazy.

Ion Hazzikostas "we really wanted to give a much more even player balance between the classes and deeper experience in an expansion, and 36 different specs was becoming too complex"

Avid Fan "wow, blizzard is amazing, I totally agree" - [Avid fan always agrees with what blizzard does, no matter what it is, they can never be faulted or wrong]

Most players:
"wow is over",
"blizzard is lazy",
"B/S, this sucks",
"I want more options" ,
"classes are rubbish now, too simple".
"If I wanted to play classic, I'd log on there"
"/ragequit",
"I'm done with wow"

etc
etc
etc

[Nevcairiel]

I play a Druid, actively as both tank and healer. If such a proposed change would take away my ability to do this on one character, that would likely lead me to quit, as the variety between tanking and healing helps myself to keep things fresh.

[Phurox]

Would be shit to have to level 3 different warriors up instead of leveling one and be able to change spec. Terrible idea.

[Ange]

The multi-role class experiment was done and failed in WotLK with the DeathKnight Class.

Blizzard said allready many times that they wont do anything like that again, because it made tuning the high number of variations impossible.

This topic allready got a big NO GO from blizzard and its easy to understand why they dont want it to repeat again. If you played in WotLK and saw how many iterrations the DK class needed till they were comperable to normal classes/specs.

Shadowlands will just bring back some useless and pruned for a reason abilitys that most players wont even keybind. They would called the next expansion "Lets repeat WotLK mistakes again 2.0" if they really wanted to make the game impossible to balance with endless class/spec combinations.

[Soon-TM]

If it was up to me, I'd go back to a (slightly modified) BC-like model of class design, where each spec had a clear role in PvE, aside from "generic tank/healer/m or rdps". One can always dream...

[Arakakao]

Sorry but no, terrible idea.

[huth]

<fanfic>

Far more likely Ion would just slap the guy who came up with it because the problems this would cause are way to obvious, and that'd be the end of it.

[Stardrift]

Remove all classes except for 3 and name them tank, healer and dps. We're essentially already there.

[Beloren]

The multi-role class experiment was done and failed in WotLK with the DeathKnight Class.

Blizzard said allready many times that they wont do anything like that again, because it made tuning the high number of variations impossible.

This topic allready got a big NO GO from blizzard and its easy to understand why they dont want it to repeat again. If you played in WotLK and saw how many iterrations the DK class needed till they were comperable to normal classes/specs.

Shadowlands will just bring back some useless and pruned for a reason abilitys that most players wont even keybind. They would called the next expansion "Lets repeat WotLK mistakes again 2.0" if they really wanted to make the game impossible to balance with endless class/spec combinations.

Ah, i didn't even think to mean multi-role in that sense, but you do make a good point.

After wrath, every class spec was porperly developed, I would say Legion was the zenith of that, although they were specs, they actually felt like classes. Don't know about you , but many people liked that.

They complain that the calsses have lost a sense of what the class is now, becuase the specs are too focused.. yet people like that you have that distinctive playstyle.

Their solution: Cut back on invidivdualism, flood in more class base abilities so they feel more like the original class.

Player Expectation: Make the specs into their own classes, and problem solved - one of the specs will carry on the name of the class and can feel capture its essence.

Let me quote the OP list:

[/LEFT]

Example of New classes:

This is the example of the full 28 classes that could result in from option 3, if we go with option 2, the former dps specs become 1 class rather than 2 separate classes

Warrior Classes

Beserker - formally fury Warrior
Blademaster - formally Arms Warrior
Warrior - the Protection spec (swapping shield for weapon boosts your dps a lot)

Priest Classes

Locus Walker - formally Shadow priest
Sunwalker - formally Discipline spec
[Priest - the holy spec is now the priest spec, talents can add some more damage spell and dps]

Warlock Classes

Necromancer - formally the Unholy DK (switches to cloth too)
Blood Knight - formally the Bood DK
[Death Knight - the frost spec carries the class]

Druid Classes

Valewalker - formally the balance spec
Botanist - formally restoration
[Feral/Guardian - Druid Class ]

Alternatively:
Star Augur - formally the Balance class
Shapeshifter is Feral & Guardian spec
[Restoraton is the Druid class]

Shaman Classes

Chieftan or Faresser - formally the Enhancment spec
Elementalist - formally the Elemental spec
[Resto spec is now the Shaman ]

Paladin Classes

Templar or Exarch - formally Retribution spec
Anchorite or Templar - formally the Holy spec
[Protection spec is now the Paladin
For the 2 class option: Paladin (Prot/Ret and Templar (Holy)]

Demon Hunter Classes

Fel Lord - formally the Vengeance spec
[Havoc - remains the Demon Hunter]

Monk Classes

Brewmaster - formally the Brewmaster spec
Runemaster formally the Mistsinger spec
[Windwalker is the Monk class]


It is very unlikely that the pure dps class specs will become separate classes. However some might. my bet would be:

Hunter:

Beastmaster spec remains the Hunter
Marksmanship spec becomes the Ranger class
Survival spec is split between the above 2.

Warlock:

Affliction: spec becomes the Witch Doctor class
Demonology is now the Warlock
Destruction is is baked into demonology

Mage:

Arcane spec becomes the Arcanist class
Frost/FIre becomes the Mage class

Rogue:

Outlaw becomes the Pirate class
Assassination becomes the Assassin
Subtelety is the Rogue

Above here, now the Beserker and Bladmaster are their own class, the warrior can now have all those removed abilities that made it feel like its original class while not losing the unique playstyles the other specs achieved because they are now their own classes.

[Amarys]

Remove all classes except for 3 and name them tank, healer and dps. We're essentially already there.

4 actually.. tank, healer, ranged DPS and melee DPS.

[Dakara]

To me, back to class rather than spec means returning the game closer to what it was... it doesn't need a re-design.

Specs should enhance certain aspects of your class not cause you to forget basic spells (IMO).

[Stardrift]

4 actually.. tank, healer, ranged DPS and melee DPS.

There a difference between ranged and melee, besides one gets CC'd more often than the other while the other gets AoE'd harder?

[Amarys]

There a difference between ranged and melee, besides one gets CC'd more often than the other while the other gets AoE'd harder?

Yea actually there is. One has to deal with cast times but can worry less about positioning and cleaves and other nasty things, the other can spam instants but has harder time with avoiding AoEs. There is a clear difference how they play.. however, as someone who mostly plays ranged classes, they all kinda just feel like choose the color of your bolt plus some flavor gimmicks sprinkled in here and there.

[Ange]

After wrath, every class spec was porperly developed, I would say Legion was the zenith of that, although they were specs, they actually felt like classes. Don't know about you , but many people liked that.

LEGION had not only winners, some classes were butchered into class shards and got stripped away utility. A great example are DK's, while most specs could keep thing like Bloodlust/Shroud/Gates/etc. DK lost massgrip and the soak utility with purgatory and left with hollow specs that needed 6 months of extra dev time to make them playable.

Imagine for a second how the last raids or dungeons would have been if warlocks had only gates in a very specific niche spec and rogues maybe only had shroud with a disliked spec like sub or not at all. The impacts on raid and mythic dungeon compositions would have changed a lot. And thats what happened to the not-so-lucky classes with broken specs.

I liked the stronger base classes with lots of hybrid tools that were usable in the specs, because it gave you class identity and not some RNG butchered spec fantasy, that basicly forced you to other specs or classes alltogether if you were not on the winner side with the changes.

[Alanar]

Ah, i didn't even mean multi-role in that sense, but you do make a good point.

After wrath, every class spec was porperly developed, I would say Legion was the zenith of that, although they were specs, they actually felt like classes. Don't know about you , but many people liked that.

They complain that the calsses have lost a sense of what the class is now, becuase the specs are too focused.. yet people like that you have that distinctive playstyle.

Their solution: Cut back on invidivdualism, flood in more class base abilities so they feel more like the original class.

Player Expectation: Make the specs into their own classes, and problem solved - one of the specs will carry on the name of the class and can feel capture its essence.

Let me quote the OP list:



Above here, now the Beserker and Bladmaster are their own class, the warrior can now have all those removed abilities that made it feel like its original class while not losing the unique playstyles the other specs achieved because they are now their own classes.

This is it tho!

I think we are all scared of losing it's own unqiue feel and it all becoming more baseline or feel generic. One of the examples that was given was for shadow priests to get flash heal back, I mean whats the point in that when we finnaly got our OWN shadow mend! This is imo already getting back, but on the wrong track.

Blood boil for dks, used to be for all specs. Was that abillity dk defining, ye not realy.

[Beloren]

LEGION had not only winners, some classes were butchered into class shards and got stripped away utility. A great example are DK's, while most specs could keep thing like Bloodlust/Shroud/Gates/etc. DK lost massgrip and the soak utility with purgatory and left with hollow specs that needed 6 months of extra dev time to make them playable.

Imagine for a second how the last raids or dungeons would have been if warlocks had only gates in a very specific niche spec and rogues maybe only had shroud with a disliked spec like sub or not at all. The impacts on raid and mythic dungeon compositions would have changed a lot. And thats what happened to the not-so-lucky classes with broken specs.

I liked the stronger base classes with lots of hybrid tools that were usable in the specs, because it gave you class identity and not some RNG butchered spec fantasy, that basicly forced you to other specs or classes all together if you were not on the winner side with the changes.

But that was not because it was conceptually wrong to make them feel more unique. The "butchering" as you call it had nothing to do with them being specs but blizzard wanting to simplify your play so that they could add the complexity that the artifact system , then legendaries and the new pvp talent system had.

It was new class system, and one better built around specs being full fledged playstyles. The pruning though was largely to free your action bar - and this is what most people called butchering.

Some have hated the specs for that, but it's not the specs they actually hate, it's losing some of their loved abilities, which wasn't exactly necessary, but we thought at the time, we were losing stuff to gain other stuff back later as they built a new system, turns out that even at their most complex at the end of legion with all the artifact points, traits from crucible and legendaries, they actually weren't that complex.. but you would have noted they felt more unique.

I am of the school that the shift from the specs all feeling the same was the better one, they didn't have to killmaybe as many abiliteis as they did, but it was good for Renew and Flash heal to leave the shadow spec, and it get its own because that makes thematic and playstyle sense. I'm not sure if it was a good idea for discipline to lose both.

[CrawlFromThePit]

It wouldn't work in WoW, it would require a redesign of all fight encounters because the whole point of going full on class mode instead of spec is to make things like off healing and off tanking a thing. Right now there's nothing in the game that requires that, and if it's not required then it won't happen at all.

Basically a good idea for a different game, but not for WoW.