View Poll Results: Is Voided Anduin better than regular Anduin?

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  • Yes

    37 58.73%
  • Also Yes, but in a different color

    26 41.27%

Thread: 8.3 Cinematic

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    Also, uhm, how is that unique to Ren'dorei and Lightforged exactly?.
    They are features of this expansion that had barely any role in this expansion, they desperately need some fleshing out, and Blizzard could at least show they are not just cash grabs made to sell preorders.
    Whatever...

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Anduin isn't really one to let his emotions get the better of him - and his demeanor before Wrathion arrives even displays irritation and shortness of temper, so the tableau is painted that he's not quite himself. That aside Wrathion getting punched in the face by Anduin was deeply satisfying to watch, Old God corruption or not.
    I liked it. Anduin felt more natural when he was irritated. After all, his subjects died. But yes, the punch was a bit too much.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    They are features of this expansion that had barely any role in this expansion, they desperately need some fleshing out, and Blizzard could at least show they are not just cash grabs made to sell preorders.
    They are not a cashgrab though. Both Alleria and Umbric have received lore development in BfA. You just don't like it. But it is objectively wrong to say that they barely had any role in the expansion.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    Also, uhm, how is that unique to Ren'dorei and Lightforged exactly? Their themes and lore revolves around the cosmic conflict, so obviously when there will be a cosmic expansion they'll be involved. And this is nothing new either. The Forsaken had no major role in the storyline until WotLK, where it made sense for them to be on the vanguard and the game actually allowed it. In the Kel'thuzad patch, they did nothing even if it was about dethroning Kel'thuzad (the one who started the Plague in the first place) and ending the Scourge presence in Lordaeron.
    Forsaken had multiple zones of main storyline. Void elves have mission to go to Anduin.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  5. #85
    Him looking at his hand is him wondering if he punched Wrathion because of N'Zoth or because of his own anger. It's to symbolize that he can't even trust his own thoughts or emotions.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    There is only one question - will Wrathion turn out to be WoW' Jaffar or Anduin's husbando.
    Why not both?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Indres View Post
    Damn, anduin went from a spineless pacifist to a real man

    I think I need to change pants. A good looking wow character, AND likeable? That IS a first
    The anger at Shaw was cool. The punch was forced.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    They are not a cashgrab though. Both Alleria and Umbric have received lore development in BfA. You just don't like it. But it is objectively wrong to say that they barely had any role in the expansion.
    Objectively wrong is to say that the single chapter of the War campaign where they are heavily featured developed them in any meaningful way. Void elves are the shallowest race by far, you can’t even say for sure if and how they can make more of themselves, and their supposed mastery of the void and iron-willed self-control were never put to the test.
    Whatever...

  8. #88
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    Anduin hits like a girl. But still Wrathalion should hit back
    Already they plot against us.
    Seize this moment, Varian.
    Dismantle the Horde!

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    He doesn't need to hit the gym though? He's pretty ripped for a 18 years old.

    But Anduin is not supposed to be an inexperienced teenager. Again, that's not who he is. He was already described as wise beyond his years, and has experience as King because he was one in Classic. And even if you're going to say that he wasn't the de-facto monarch of the realm, he still watched Bolvar and the nobles rule, so he probably learned even more things from him.

    If anything, his doubt in 7.2 didn't come because he thought he didn't know how to rule, but because he thought he wouldn't be as beloved and efficient as Varian was.

    Again, the narrative is pretty clear in this regard. Anduin punching Wrathion conveys the insidious influence of N'Zoth. It's not Anduin, it's the opposite of him. Anduin is not prone to wroth or ire. He is diplomatic and always tries to reason with people first.
    All you say in regards to describing Anduin's character, sans trying to claim that him watching other people rule somehow makes him more capable than the actual rulers, is true, which is why Anduin is such a cancer upon the plot. Anduin should be inexperienced because he's only done wilful shit and his fellow leaders are both far less naive and far more experienced, along with having little reason to take orders from a child in charge of a kingdom the bonds of which they'd had for only a fraction of their incredibly life span. He should be less beloved than his father given his appeasement policies. But he isn't, because he's God's gift to the world. Ergo, when the hypothetical, more interesting Anduin I just described shines through, that's a good thing, and when Anduin is Anduin, he's a pestilence.

    A visionary and good man, but one faced with adversity and his own inexperience, treated as such by his peers nevertheless doing everything he can to bring about a better world for everyone is fine. An implacable god-man who can do no wrong and is numbly followed by everyone except evil/vengeful strawmen, incapable of expressing negative emotion regardless of what happens isn't.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-01-15 at 02:05 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Objectively wrong is to say that the single chapter of the War campaign where they are heavily featured developed them in any meaningful way. Void elves are the shallowest race by far, you can’t even say for sure if and how they can make more of themselves, and their supposed mastery of the void and iron-willed self-control were never put to the test.
    I didn't say they were developed in a meaningful way (which takes a lot of time to do), I said they were developed. Alleria appeared in the pre-patch and proved her worth to the Alliance, and we also learned that after her failed reunion she seeks to kill Sylvanas. At the same time, we learned in 8.2.5 that she does not let her hatred for Sylvanas blind her, and was the only one to suggest signing an armistice with Sylvanas to combine their armies and fight N'Zoth. Umbric was developed in the War Campaign and we saw him interact with other races in the Alliance. We also learned that he fought during the Troll Wars, so he must be quite old, and that he is ruthless, willing to send his enemies into the Void or resurrecting fallen corpses to do his bidding. In particular, he uses this last tactic as a way to demoralize the Zandalari, because he knows how much they worship dinosaurs, so by twisting them into Void creatures he seeks to instill fear in their hearts, thus showing that he is proficient at playing mind games with the enemy.

    It will be revealed if they can reproduce when the time is right. It would be terrible if they just dropped every information about them immediately and removed any mystery. Also, that would count as lore, and lore is not story development.

    Finally, their mastery of the Void is constantly put to the test. We can see a Ren'dorei in the Island Expeditions who struggles with the whispers, and Alleria herself after N'Zoth's fall mentions how the whispers have actually worsened and new voices have joined the chorus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    All you say in regards to describing Anduin's character, sans trying to claim that him watching other people rule somehow makes him more capable than the actual rulers, is true, which is why Anduin is such a cancer upon the plot. Anduin should be inexperienced because he's only done wilful shit and his fellow leaders are both far less naive and far more experienced, along with having little reason to take orders from a child in charge of a kingdom the bonds of which they'd had for only a fraction of their incredibly life span. He should be less beloved than his father given his appeasement policies. But he isn't, because he's God's gift to the world. Ergo, when the hypothetical, more interesting Anduin I just described shines through, that's a good thing, and when Anduin is Anduin, he's a pestilence.
    I'm not saying he is more capable than the actual rulers, but since he was clearly being tutored by his regent Bolvar, he probably has an idea or two on how to make his first steps as King.

    A negative character arc has to be done right. Anduin turning into a jerk who punches people is jumping from point A straight to point Z with no nuance in-between.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-01-15 at 02:05 PM.
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  11. #91
    "Oh no, I briefly acted like a man, it must be N'Zoth's influence! I must purge myself of his toxic masculinity!"

    The apple has fallen SO far from the tree. At least High King Dipshit I started out taking no shit.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    "Oh no, I briefly acted like a man, it must be N'Zoth's influence! I must purge myself of his toxic masculinity!"

    The apple has fallen SO far from the tree. At least High King Dipshit I started out taking no shit.
    Exactly. His father would have burned Stormwind before it fell into corruption.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I'm not saying he is more capable than the actual rulers, but since he was clearly being tutored by his regent Bolvar, he probably has an idea or two on how to make his first steps as King.

    A negative character arc has to be done right. Anduin turning into a jerk who punches people is jumping from point A straight to point Z with no nuance in-between.
    The point isn't that Anduin in this cutscene is better than our usual Jesus analogue Anduin because he punches people. It's that Anduin expressing anger over someone with this much culpability in so many deaths, acting like nothing has happened, to whom Anduin has a personal relationship humanizes him because it shows him capable of losing his temper and not always being on top of things. A young ruler having a brief lapse but then reappraising his position and still hearing Wrathion out makes him a better character than if he'd greeted it with the same equanimity he meets everything else.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The point isn't that Anduin in this cutscene is better than our usual Jesus analogue Anduin because he punches people. It's that Anduin expressing anger over someone with this much culpability in so many deaths, acting like nothing has happened, to whom Anduin has a personal relationship humanizes him because it shows him capable of losing his temper and not always being on top of things. A young ruler having a brief lapse but then reappraising his position and still hearing Wrathion out makes him a better character than if he'd greeted it with the same equanimity he meets everything else.
    Exactly. Imagine him hugging Wrathion. All forum users, especially Alliance, would complain about Anduin being too peaceful.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The point isn't that Anduin in this cutscene is better than our usual Jesus analogue Anduin because he punches people. It's that Anduin expressing anger over someone with this much culpability in so many deaths, acting like nothing has happened, to whom Anduin has a personal relationship humanizes him because it shows him capable of losing his temper and not always being on top of things. A young ruler having a brief lapse but then reappraising his position and still hearing Wrathion out makes him a better character than if he'd greeted it with the same equanimity he meets everything else.
    So like when he did at the Battle of Lordaeron with Greymane?

    That's already two cases of Anduin acting in a rash way then. What's the bare minimum for him to join the "Acceptable character for MMO-Champion Lore Subforum gang"?
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by kappalol View Post
    Baine in SW makes me sick. Sylvanas should have executed that trailer asap she had a chance.
    He's there with his Highmountain waifu too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    I feel like Wrathion should have a parrot on his shoulder.
    An incessantly giggling dog would be better suited for him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    So like when he did at the Battle of Lordaeron with Greymane?

    That's already two cases of Anduin acting in a rash way then. What's the bare minimum for him to join the "Acceptable character for MMO-Champion Lore Subforum gang"?
    I don't know what you're on about re: Genn in the Battle for Lordaeron. No one at any point brings up that Anduin cocked that battle up, nor does Anduin lose his patience. He greets Saurfang, who was just culpable in the war's start as the top commander with nothing but emotional support to the disapproval of none of the people present, and even Sylvanas, who is an evil strawman par excellence, he still offers the chance to surrender and when that obviously fails he's once again not called by anyone on it. The one time anyone challenges Anduin is at the very end with Tyrande, and I've got prime real estate in an active volcano to sell you if you think Tyrande won't awaken to the greatness of world peace like Genn before her.

    To repost what I posted before - A visionary and good man, but one faced with adversity and his own inexperience, treated as such by his peers nevertheless doing everything he can to bring about a better world for everyone is fine. An implacable god-man who can do no wrong and is numbly followed by everyone except evil/vengeful strawmen, incapable of expressing negative emotion regardless of what happens isn't.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I don't know what you're on about re: Genn in the Battle for Lordaeron. No one at any point brings up that Anduin cocked that battle up, nor does Anduin lose his patience. He greets Saurfang, who was just culpable in the war's start as the top commander with nothing but emotional support to the disapproval of none of the people present, and even Sylvanas, who is an evil strawman par excellence, he still offers the chance to surrender and when that obviously fails he's once again not called by anyone on it. The one time anyone challenges Anduin is at the very end with Tyrande, and I've got prime real estate in an active volcano to sell you if you think Tyrande won't awaken to the greatness of world peace like Genn before her.

    To repost what I posted before - A visionary and good man, but one faced with adversity and his own inexperience, treated as such by his peers nevertheless doing everything he can to bring about a better world for everyone is fine. An implacable god-man who can do no wrong and is numbly followed by everyone except evil/vengeful strawmen, incapable of expressing negative emotion regardless of what happens isn't.
    He litearlly loses his composure and tells Greymane to shut up.

    But do answer the question, Anduin is at 2 out of what until he becomes acceptable for you people?
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I don't know what you're on about re: Genn in the Battle for Lordaeron. No one at any point brings up that Anduin cocked that battle up, nor does Anduin lose his patience. He greets Saurfang, who was just culpable in the war's start as the top commander with nothing but emotional support to the disapproval of none of the people present, and even Sylvanas, who is an evil strawman par excellence, he still offers the chance to surrender and when that obviously fails he's once again not called by anyone on it. The one time anyone challenges Anduin is at the very end with Tyrande, and I've got prime real estate in an active volcano to sell you if you think Tyrande won't awaken to the greatness of world peace like Genn before her.

    To repost what I posted before - A visionary and good man, but one faced with adversity and his own inexperience, treated as such by his peers nevertheless doing everything he can to bring about a better world for everyone is fine. An implacable god-man who can do no wrong and is numbly followed by everyone except evil/vengeful strawmen, incapable of expressing negative emotion regardless of what happens isn't.
    I think he means
    Lordaeron cinamatic where andy loses his temper shouting enouth

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    He litearlly loses his composure and tells Greymane to shut up.

    But do answer the question, Anduin is at 2 out of what until he becomes acceptable for you people?
    I've answered that question often and the answer is always the same - Anduin is fine, the response to him and the way the setting bends to him is not. Anduin can be exactly the same as he is now, but the responses to him must change radically in line with common sense. Ergo, when he pitches a white peace to the Alliance the majority of leaders go "lolno, we did this already and it failed" leaving Anduin to maneuver through Magni, Wrathion and Baine to coordinate a response against N'zoth, incidentally also covering why the factions play next to no role in the proceedings anyway. If Anduin had to struggle with personal unpopularity and actual opposition from people who aren't strawmen to achieve peace, that'd make him an exponentially better character and make his success meaningful. It'd still be a storyline I'd personally dislike, since I've no interest in faction peace, but it'd be a good storyline because it'd involve adversity. Even Superman meets hardship and tests to his ideals and being an actual omnibenevolent godman is his whole shtick.

    @bowlink

    Yes, when he chastises the guy who got his land razed by Sylvanas for talking back to her while he offers her a surrender, is caught in a trap and then neither Genn nor the at the time hawkish Jaina say shit about this.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

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