1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    It's a psychological thing as well. You wake up and most of the raid is already dead before you even have the chance to start. It's stupid and not a real race to begin with.
    It is not a psychological thing when one has the upfront knowledge that the difficulty of the raid is backloaded; knowing that half the raid consists of pinata bosses that you yourself are going to sweep easily as well is not going to impact morale negatively. You can see from past races that the outcome primarily comes down to which guild plays the last boss best (maybe the penultimate boss in some rare cases too).

    The head start would only be really impactful for raids like EN or Ruby Sanctum that don't even have much difficult content to begin with, or gear check bosses that are heavily dependent on obtaining gear from reclear. For a tier like Ny'alotha that lasts at least more than a day into a second reset, the impact of the head start is very difficult to actually quantify, especially in lieu of all the other issues that the leading guild faces. There is some advantage, true, but it's not easy to measure at all, and certainly isn't a flat 16 hours like the trolls in this thread would have you believe.

    In any case regardless this time around it's pretty clear that it was a well-deserved win; timing issues shouldn't even be relevant to the discussion given how each guild played this tier.
    Last edited by Veiled Shadow; 2020-02-07 at 05:52 PM.

  2. #3802
    Dreadlord arr0gance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.
    EU in general has a better raiding scene than NA. I mean, fuck, even OCE is better than NA for the most part. You can't be serious that you or anybody in your guild is demotivated by the 16 hour head start.
    "Brevity is the sole of wit." -Abraham Lincoln, 1892

  3. #3803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.
    That's definitely a you problem because you're not being realistic in the slightest. You're not competing with anyone, you're not in the world first race. It doesn't make any difference who starts when if you're not in the competition, which you're not. You will never get any placing that matters. You MIGHT get realm first? Which means nothing and isn't impacted by any delay. That 16 hours isn't going to make any difference to you. If you're letting something that doesn't impact you in any way fuck with your mindset that is YOUR problem.
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  4. #3804
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.
    We dont' have to negate it, Method already did multiple times when they smashed NA guilds to World First time after time after time.
    Why would they start off this tier demotivated for something that they have overcome every other single tier?

    IF anything, this should have been them at their most motivated. Streaming the race live? The stakes were never this high.


    And, to your first point, unless are literally a top 10 guild, you don't care that NA starts before you. My guild in Legion was a top 5 guild on Area-52, Cutting Edge on everything except Heyla. I can count on zero fingers the number of times that any of us compared ourselves to EU guilds, and I'm pretty sure its the same for relative EU guilds.

    What non-top-raiding guild is concerned with other guilds outside of their realm and region?? For what reason? We didn't Quit Playing when Method Killed Argus lmao

  5. #3805
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    EU in general has a better raiding scene than NA. I mean, fuck, even OCE is better than NA for the most part. You can't be serious that you or anybody in your guild is demotivated by the 16 hour head start.
    No shit. Talk about the measure of a person being so small. Those at the top have long agreed who is first is first regardless. At that point the whole arguement in either direction is locked and sold. If the rules are argued about in the kiddie pool than thats kind of normal but at the same time not very consequential in the end and I say that as someone swimming in the kiddie pool.

  6. #3806
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post

    1.) Using worldwide expansion launches as the blueprint, this would place the expansion launch in a cozy late morning window for the EU while forcing NA participants to either stay up or change their sleep schedule. This solution would clearly favor EU guilds.
    Don't the Global expansion launches favor US by a lot? For EU those are always at 00:00, thats not a "cozy late morning" :P

    Look for example at the BFA lauch times: 00:00 for EU and 15:00 PST for US. I don't see why that would mean staying up for US, moreso for EU.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-rule-them-all

  7. #3807
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    No shit. Talk about the measure of a person being so small. Those at the top have long agreed who is first is first regardless. At that point the whole arguement in either direction is locked and sold. If the rules are argued about in the kiddie pool than thats kind of normal but at the same time not very consequential in the end and I say that as someone swimming in the kiddie pool.
    Nope, if method got it within 16 hours, it would spark a shitstorm of rage where no-one would change anyones mind, trolling would go wild, and we'd have a world first and world fastest, those are the facts, i'd just watch with popcorn it would be hilarious to watch.

    sadly Method choked and thats not gonna happen so we'll just have to have this "omg NA won" baiting, which isn't nearly as good as it could be.

  8. #3808
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    That's definitely a you problem because you're not being realistic in the slightest. You're not competing with anyone, you're not in the world first race. It doesn't make any difference who starts when if you're not in the competition, which you're not. You will never get any placing that matters. You MIGHT get realm first? Which means nothing and isn't impacted by any delay. That 16 hours isn't going to make any difference to you. If you're letting something that doesn't impact you in any way fuck with your mindset that is YOUR problem.
    Imagine in your selfish little world that there are people who care about a lot of things that you don't care about.

    My Guild wr actually matters to me. If you are in whatever kind of guild and don't care that's your thing - and has nothing to do with me.

  9. #3809
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Imagine in your selfish little world that there are people who care about a lot of things that you don't care about.

    My Guild wr actually matters to me. If you are in whatever kind of guild and don't care that's your thing - and has nothing to do with me.
    So what's the motivation level in your guild now that Limit got WF?
    You gonna give up on 8.3 and wait till Shadowlands?

    I mean you are the one saying it matters if NA gets wf to your guild so I would assume you guys are pretty distraught rn

  10. #3810
    Dreadlord arr0gance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronia View Post
    Don't the Global expansion launches favor US by a lot? For EU those are always at 00:00, thats not a "cozy late morning" :P

    Look for example at the BFA lauch times: 00:00 for EU and 15:00 PST for US. I don't see why that would mean staying up for US, moreso for EU.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-rule-them-all
    Well, shit. I wasn't around for BfA's launch and the last few I did were at 3 in the morning (EST, NA) so I kinda figured they'd follow suit. Regardless, it would be bad for one or both regions which is the point I was making.
    "Brevity is the sole of wit." -Abraham Lincoln, 1892

  11. #3811
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    I love it how the goal post is being moved.

    Kill the boss at the earleist time. Okay, but reset time favors US. The time difference passes, and still no second kill. Okay, but it psychologically damanged Method, a guild of pro raiders, who are payed because they can perform well in every tier under any circumstance. Yeah right. I wonder what will be the excuse if Method doesn't even get second place?

  12. #3812
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavebossa View Post
    So what's the motivation level in your guild now that Limit got WF?
    You gonna give up on 8.3 and wait till Shadowlands?

    I mean you are the one saying it matters if NA gets wf to your guild so I would assume you guys are pretty distraught rn
    Having NA guilds on a higher rank than my guild cause of the 16-hour headstart feels shit indeed.

  13. #3813
    Quote Originally Posted by Einsz View Post
    Method does this every time some Method member achieve something. I know its hard to understand but 4 Limit players work for Method organization. Nothing special here.
    It's incredibly tone deaf then again their social media manager also claimed that Red Bull gave them no compensation when they gave them talent equipment and space as well as I think lodging and didn't take a cut from donations or subs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Having NA guilds on a higher rank than my guild cause of the 16-hour headstart feels shit indeed.
    Yeah no that isn't a thing lol if you are better by the time you kill nzoth it will more than balance out.

  14. #3814
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    I love it how the goal post is being moved.

    Kill the boss at the earleist time. Okay, but reset time favors US. The time difference passes, and still no second kill. Okay, but it psychologically damanged Method, a guild of pro raiders, who are payed because they can perform well in every tier under any circumstance. Yeah right. I wonder what will be the excuse if Method doesn't even get second place?

    They had to raid while being filmed all in the same room. They didn't get to raid in the comfort of their own home. They had to wear shoes while raiding.

    (No i'm not making these up, i've already seen these excuses despite the fact Limit did the exact same thing here in Texas)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Having NA guilds on a higher rank than my guild cause of the 16-hour headstart feels shit indeed.
    Well unless you are a literally a member of method.... there has been at least one NA guild ahead of you every single raid tier ever.

    Sorry man.. raiding must be depressing as hell for you

  15. #3815
    Dreadlord arr0gance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    Nope, if method got it within 16 hours, it would spark a shitstorm of rage where no-one would change anyones mind, trolling would go wild, and we'd have a world first and world fastest, those are the facts, i'd just watch with popcorn it would be hilarious to watch.

    sadly Method choked and thats not gonna happen so we'll just have to have this "omg NA won" baiting, which isn't nearly as good as it could be.
    It has nothing to do with that. NA won by being better players and watching and comparing Method's stream to Limit's proves it. I'd even argue that NA looked better for EP but Blizzard changing the encounter to favor Method's 2 heal strat made the guild look comparatively much stronger than they actually were. If I were a spicy memelord I'd even suggest that this bred a bit of complacency within Method which has resulted in them getting their ass handed to them on a platter this tier. But alas, I am not.
    "Brevity is the sole of wit." -Abraham Lincoln, 1892

  16. #3816
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    It's a topic that has been debated to death but has found newfound popularity in the form of salty insecure EU fans who wish to diminish the severity of Method's loss by claiming the race was never fair in the first place. In the interest of discussion, let's go over the salient issues starting the race at the same time would bring with it:

    1.) Using worldwide expansion launches as the blueprint, this would place the expansion launch in a cozy late morning window for the EU while forcing NA participants to either stay up or change their sleep schedule. This solution would clearly favor EU guilds.

    2.) "Aha!" you say cleverly, "Why don't they just launch it 10 AM in NA regions so it'll be 5-7 PM in EU regions?" This solution would favor NA since there would be more "normal people" raiding hours, though it would definitely fuck with instance reset timers, something which I'm pretty sure are hard coded into the game and Blizzard can't simply "flip a switch" to fix.

    3.) This would do nothing to stop the nation bashing that seems to be inherent in this discussion. Everybody wants to deflect and pretend like the better guild didn't win "because reasons," but even if we do even the playing field the same silly arguments will pop up.

    4.) It doesn't actually make the race any more or less interesting. This is a situation in which Hanlon's Razor is applicable: The simplest solution is the best. The simplest solution is to keep it the way it has been. The best guild will win regardless of the head start.
    That statement is just factually untrue. There were multiple tiers where the top 2 were less than 16hrs apart, which could make the worse guild win.

  17. #3817
    No king rules forever. method officially lost.

    This is a prove they were just overrated I bet if they give other guilds sponsors too limit will be overrated as well.

    The real winners here are those guilds at 11/12 without sponsors and sh!t.
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  18. #3818
    Quote Originally Posted by Exhuman View Post
    No king rules forever. method officially lost.

    This is a prove they were just overrated I bet if they give other guilds sponsors too limit will be overrated as well.
    So everyone is overrated according to you? who is actually good?

  19. #3819
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    So everyone is overrated according to you? who is actually good?
    I edited, those guilds without sponsors who are at 11/12 right now.
    (Removed for Violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  20. #3820
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    It has nothing to do with that. NA won by being better players and watching and comparing Method's stream to Limit's proves it. I'd even argue that NA looked better for EP but Blizzard changing the encounter to favor Method's 2 heal strat made the guild look comparatively much stronger than they actually were. If I were a spicy memelord I'd even suggest that this bred a bit of complacency within Method which has resulted in them getting their ass handed to them on a platter this tier. But alas, I am not.
    Dunno why you quoted me, it had nothing to do with what i said or who i was replying to do.

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