Ny'alotha, The Waking City World First Race

[arr0gance]

Ye, let's act like having 16 hours disadvantage in a "race" has no influence. Get real.

A 16 hour advantage that has now been entirely squandered because Method is no closer to killing it now than they were 16 hours ago. A 16 hour advantage that saw Limit spending hundreds of wipes on an unfinished encounter. (The boss literally despawned for them on more than one attempt.) Just keep shifting goal posts so you don't have to admit Method played like shit and got beat.

[Jimson]

Ye, let's act like having 16 hours disadvantage in a "race" has no influence. Get real.

Let's also pretend that watching strats on a live stream has no advantage, then.

[Gorsameth]

If we follow the trend we see in the PvP side of WoW then the logical next step is for Method to sponsor Limit in the next race so that no matter who wins, its Method.

[Clozer]

A 16 hour advantage that has now been entirely squandered because Method is no closer to killing it now than they were 16 hours ago. A 16 hour advantage that saw Limit spending hundreds of wipes on an unfinished encounter. (The boss literally despawned for them on more than one attempt.) Just keep shifting goal posts so you don't have to admit Method played like shit and got beat.

3rd time - this has nothing to do with Method. Man, you are obsessed with these guys. Kinda talking to someone mentally disabled who loves his trains.

You are EU or even Asia you start with a big heavy handicap. That's a fact.

[Wavebossa]

Ye, let's act like having 16 hours disadvantage in a "race" has no influence. Get real.

Its been over 16 hours and the boss still has 1/5th of his health left.

At what point do you officially recognize that Limit was superior in this tier? Does Method have to get to 300 wipes first?

[arr0gance]

3rd time - this has nothing to do with Method. Man, you are obsessed with these guys. Kinda talking to someone mentally disabled who loves his trains.

You are EU or even Asia you start with a big heavy handicap. That's a fact.

You replied to somebody who mentioned Method specifically then act surprised when people assume you're referring to them?

The fact is that it has been like this for ~decades~ and it hasn't mattered because EU was consistently winning. Now that they lost a race everybody's clamoring to claim "fairness" when it really has very little to do with that. It's all region bias insecurity manifesting itself in the form of terrible argumentation.

[Kruz]

Having a Max leading the raid from outside was the thing that really put them over Method this tier, Method is known for crazy WA stuff they do and that's one of the reasons they take so many breaks.

With raid leading from the outside, you don't need to really on that as much with the shot calling.

[Gorsameth]

Having a Max leading the raid from outside was the thing that really put them over Method this tier, Method is known for crazy WA stuff they do and that's one of the reasons they take so many breaks.

With raid leading from the outside, you don't need to really on that as much with the shot calling.

I believe they also specifically got someone with extensive WA knowledge to help them this tier, and they had maker of DBM there to provide on the fly updates.

It wasn't just Max.

[Clozer]

You replied to somebody who mentioned Method specifically then act surprised when people assume you're referring to them?

The fact is that it has been like this for ~decades~ and it hasn't mattered because EU was consistently winning. Now that they lost a race everybody's clamoring to claim "fairness" when it really has very little to do with that. It's all region bias insecurity manifesting itself in the form of terrible argumentation.

Already talking about NA headstart for a decade tho. Not a new thing. This has nothing to do with someone winning over someone else in this particular race. You try so hard man.

I'm quite sure you will find headstart just as often in the eternal palace thread as in this one.

[gobarj]

Preheat answers https://www.twitch.tv/videos/548240854?t=1h1m12s on their preparation outside of the players in the raid (Weak Auras, etc).

[RoKPaNda]

Already talking about NA headstart for a decade tho. Not a new thing. This has nothing to do with someone winning over someone else in this particular race. You try so hard man.

I'm quite sure you will find headstart just as often in the eternal palace thread as in this one.

You're making an awful lot of excuses for a guild that doesn't even know you exist. First it's the head start that was completely negated this tier and negated every tier since streaming progression started. Then it was somehow that they were demotivated magically this tier when it's the same scenario in every other tier. They could have released the raid at the exact same time world wide and it wouldn't have changed anything. Limit was that far ahead. The team you like lost, it happens, lose gracefully. You should be thrilled that there is actual competition now. It's a good thing.

[arr0gance]

Already talking about NA headstart for a decade tho. Not a new thing. This has nothing to do with someone winning over someone else in this particular race. You try so hard man.

I'm quite sure you will find headstart just as often in the eternal palace thread as in this one.

It's a topic that has been debated to death but has found newfound popularity in the form of salty insecure EU fans who wish to diminish the severity of Method's loss by claiming the race was never fair in the first place. In the interest of discussion, let's go over the salient issues starting the race at the same time would bring with it:

1.) Using worldwide expansion launches as the blueprint, this would place the expansion launch in a cozy late morning window for the EU while forcing NA participants to either stay up or change their sleep schedule. This solution would clearly favor EU guilds.

2.) "Aha!" you say cleverly, "Why don't they just launch it 10 AM in NA regions so it'll be 5-7 PM in EU regions?" This solution would favor NA since there would be more "normal people" raiding hours, though it would definitely fuck with instance reset timers, something which I'm pretty sure are hard coded into the game and Blizzard can't simply "flip a switch" to fix.

3.) This would do nothing to stop the nation bashing that seems to be inherent in this discussion. Everybody wants to deflect and pretend like the better guild didn't win "because reasons," but even if we do even the playing field the same silly arguments will pop up.

4.) It doesn't actually make the race any more or less interesting. This is a situation in which Hanlon's Razor is applicable: The simplest solution is the best. The simplest solution is to keep it the way it has been. The best guild will win regardless of the head start.

[chorx]

Which is really funny because Limit spent 200 pulls on broken N'zoth before Blizzard got their thumbs out of their collective arses and removed the 2nd portal phase.

I’d kill to know if that was a cut chamber phase that was too buggy after somebody QAd it during the race lol.

[Clozer]

You're making an awful lot of excuses for a guild that doesn't even know you exist. First it's the head start that was completely negated this tier and negated every tier since streaming progression started. Then it was somehow that they were demotivated magically this tier when it's the same scenario in every other tier. They could have released the raid at the exact same time world wide and it wouldn't have changed anything. Limit was that far ahead. The team you like lost, it happens, lose gracefully. You should be thrilled that there is actual competition now. It's a good thing.

My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.

[Fake News]

Method has 3.5 hours to get world first. Tick tock...

[Veiled Shadow]

It's a psychological thing as well. You wake up and most of the raid is already dead before you even have the chance to start. It's stupid and not a real race to begin with.

It is not a psychological thing when one has the upfront knowledge that the difficulty of the raid is backloaded; knowing that half the raid consists of pinata bosses that you yourself are going to sweep easily as well is not going to impact morale negatively. You can see from past races that the outcome primarily comes down to which guild plays the last boss best (maybe the penultimate boss in some rare cases too).

The head start would only be really impactful for raids like EN or Ruby Sanctum that don't even have much difficult content to begin with, or gear check bosses that are heavily dependent on obtaining gear from reclear. For a tier like Ny'alotha that lasts at least more than a day into a second reset, the impact of the head start is very difficult to actually quantify, especially in lieu of all the other issues that the leading guild faces. There is some advantage, true, but it's not easy to measure at all, and certainly isn't a flat 16 hours like the trolls in this thread would have you believe.

In any case regardless this time around it's pretty clear that it was a well-deserved win; timing issues shouldn't even be relevant to the discussion given how each guild played this tier.

[arr0gance]

My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.

EU in general has a better raiding scene than NA. I mean, fuck, even OCE is better than NA for the most part. You can't be serious that you or anybody in your guild is demotivated by the 16 hour head start.

[RoKPaNda]

My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.

That's definitely a you problem because you're not being realistic in the slightest. You're not competing with anyone, you're not in the world first race. It doesn't make any difference who starts when if you're not in the competition, which you're not. You will never get any placing that matters. You MIGHT get realm first? Which means nothing and isn't impacted by any delay. That 16 hours isn't going to make any difference to you. If you're letting something that doesn't impact you in any way fuck with your mindset that is YOUR problem.

[Wavebossa]

My guild knows my existence. If I'm top 3 or top 200 - we are always behind NA guilds of the same level. It might not affect you, but surely others. You can't magically negate the psychological influence on having to start 16 hours later. All this "well its 16 hours later now and they still didnt kill it" makes no sense.

We dont' have to negate it, Method already did multiple times when they smashed NA guilds to World First time after time after time.
Why would they start off this tier demotivated for something that they have overcome every other single tier?

IF anything, this should have been them at their most motivated. Streaming the race live? The stakes were never this high.


And, to your first point, unless are literally a top 10 guild, you don't care that NA starts before you. My guild in Legion was a top 5 guild on Area-52, Cutting Edge on everything except Heyla. I can count on zero fingers the number of times that any of us compared ourselves to EU guilds, and I'm pretty sure its the same for relative EU guilds.

What non-top-raiding guild is concerned with other guilds outside of their realm and region?? For what reason? We didn't Quit Playing when Method Killed Argus lmao

[Low Hanging Fruit]

EU in general has a better raiding scene than NA. I mean, fuck, even OCE is better than NA for the most part. You can't be serious that you or anybody in your guild is demotivated by the 16 hour head start.

No shit. Talk about the measure of a person being so small. Those at the top have long agreed who is first is first regardless. At that point the whole arguement in either direction is locked and sold. If the rules are argued about in the kiddie pool than thats kind of normal but at the same time not very consequential in the end and I say that as someone swimming in the kiddie pool.