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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Doesn't seem far-fetched to me. Wrathions plan was to fuck with the timeline and bring an army of pissed off orcs into Azeroth, so they could conquer it and provide a powerful army against the impending Legion attack. That alone should give everyone a free "punch this guy in the face" ticket. He was directly plotting against Horde and Alliance (by trying to get an AU army to conquer both of those factions), his original plan involved having the guy who he wants to advice (Anduin) most likely killed during a siege or something.

    But let's not forget that guy specifically chose the one point in Orcish history when they were being targeted by the BURNING LEGION. You know, the force he was trying to stop? It doesn't seem to be a stretch to think that he did stirr the hornets nest and pretty much caused the Legion to redirect its efforts back towards Azeroth.

    This fucking guy, seriously.
    Then it's the Titans' fault. If the Titans never gave a shit about Deathwing, he would have never created Wrathion, and Wrathion would have never pulled that BS.

    See the problem with this logic? At what point do we stop?
    "I can't stay behind. Don't ask me to. I stayed behind the last time. I won't watch someone I love go to his death while I..."

    Alleria fan.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    At what point do we stop?
    Preferably before Void Elves became a thing.

  3. #63
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by De Lupe View Post
    I can name a dozen people I'd love to clock with all my strength just once. It is very much a real thing.

    Only reason I don't is because assault charges are a thing.
    There's many reasons why we don't, and this is what makes our judgment not do it. The reason why we never see people getting punched just once is because the amount of hatred necessary to make us not give a shit about all the consequences is also more than enough to make us not stop at one punch. It's just an extremely unrealistic action that makes this scene lose credibility (among with many other scenes that have characters do very caricaturesque behaviour).
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    True. Now that you mention it he's been acting OOC for a while now. To me that suggests that N'zoth has been working on him for a while, since even before he was released.
    Wrathion's "it has already begun" referred to the entire BFA expansion/faction war, as did the extra dumb look on Anduin's face as he realized that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    I had no idea Wrathion freed Garrosh. It's fine to put lore in books outside the game, but then to hinge a major in-game moment on something ONLY someone who read the books would know is pretty crappy.

    My reaction to the cutscene setting up the end of the entire expansion was confusion, and everybody who didn't read the books felt the same way.

    And wait, even then, Varian was killed by demons in the Legion intro. So how does Wrathion freeing Garrosh get Varian killed? By starting the entire crappy WoD expansion which ultimately led to alternate Gul'dan coming to current-day Azeroth and starting the burning legion invasion? And Anduin chose to blame him for his father's death after that incredibly long series of events? Even if you know the lore from the book it just doesn't make any sense.

    Poor form, Blizzard. Do better.
    Not to mention the Legion kinda didn't kill Varian. They did, but he could have escaped. He chose to die to let others escape.

    Anduin should blame Varian for Varian's choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Wrathion's ingenious plan to help Kairoz create the Time Stone thingamajig to defeat the Burning Legion invasion backfired so fantastically that it CAUSED THE INVASION OF THE BURNING LEGION.
    *at a different time that it otherwise would have happened


    For all we know if Wrathion hadn't moved up the timeline on the Legion invasion, we would have lost to the Legion. Azshara and the Legion might have teamed up. Just about anything could have happened.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Wrathion's "it has already begun" referred to the entire BFA expansion/faction war, as did the extra dumb look on Anduin's face as he realized that.

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    Not to mention the Legion kinda didn't kill Varian. They did, but he could have escaped. He chose to die to let others escape.

    Anduin should blame Varian for Varian's choices.

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    *at a different time that it otherwise would have happened


    For all we know if Wrathion hadn't moved up the timeline on the Legion invasion, we would have lost to the Legion. Azshara and the Legion might have teamed up. Just about anything could have happened.
    Man people get really weird about defending truely awful people in this game.

    Wrathion directly plotted against BOTH factions, directly caused the iron horde and an invasion that would have cost countless lives as well as truely effing the timeline and was indirectly responsible for the legions renewed interest in mainline Azeroth.

    You're right, it's not realistic. Because any of these alone would normally have meant that as soon as he walked into ANY capital city he would have been arrested, put on trial and then hanged for his actions.

    The people of Azeroth are rediculously forgiving. But that's just how things are in the warcraft universe evidently.

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  6. #66
    Putting aside how direct/indirect he was, it really does suck that they're confusing players with major in-game plot moments that only make a bit of sense if you read the books. They really need to stop doing that. Out of game material should offer additional context, side-stories, etc, anything more than that needs to be explained inside the game.

    In this case, an expository line about Wrathion being behind Garrosh being freed and ultimately causing the Legion invasion that led to Varian's death would have been, well, awkward, but done the trick.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Wrathion was responsible for WoD.

    ........ we should all be punching him
    Didn't happen in game, doesn't exist. Kappa.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post

    Remind me why Anduin punched Wrathian. Okey, Varian died, but how is this linked to Wrathian?



    okey guys, thanks for the answers, no need for more replies!
    because even anduin hates WoD and wrathion brought that about so....
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  9. #69
    The same logic for why Malfurion is responsible for freeing N'zoth.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  10. #70
    Call me a slowpoke, but wasn't the point of this entire cinematic to show off N'zoth influence on everybody, including Anduin?

    You can argue all day over "Wrathion being responsible for WoD, thus being responsible for AU Gul'dan and yada yada", but it's obvious that Anduin acts out of character in that cinematic.
    Snaps at Valeera / Shaw for not finding anything.
    Gets pissed when Shaw mentioned a "new advisor" (without making any implications who it could be).
    Punches Wrathion and in a fit of rage (despite not resorting to violence at any point based on anger).
    The shot on Anduins hand / fist while Wrathion says "get people to act contrary to their nature".

    Anduin is mad at Wrathion, but Anduin was already mad before even Wrathion showed up.
    His reaction is pretty much the result of N'zoth getting into his head as well.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejavuproned View Post
    Man people get really weird about defending truely awful people in this game.

    Wrathion directly plotted against BOTH factions, directly caused the iron horde and an invasion that would have cost countless lives as well as truely effing the timeline and was indirectly responsible for the legions renewed interest in mainline Azeroth.

    You're right, it's not realistic. Because any of these alone would normally have meant that as soon as he walked into ANY capital city he would have been arrested, put on trial and then hanged for his actions.

    The people of Azeroth are rediculously forgiving. But that's just how things are in the warcraft universe evidently.

    Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk
    He just freed Garrosh and killed some people in Xuen's temple. Rest is Garrosh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Call me a slowpoke, but wasn't the point of this entire cinematic to show off N'zoth influence on everybody, including Anduin?

    You can argue all day over "Wrathion being responsible for WoD, thus being responsible for AU Gul'dan and yada yada", but it's obvious that Anduin acts out of character in that cinematic.
    Snaps at Valeera / Shaw for not finding anything.
    Gets pissed when Shaw mentioned a "new advisor" (without making any implications who it could be).
    Punches Wrathion and in a fit of rage (despite not resorting to violence at any point based on anger).
    The shot on Anduins hand / fist while Wrathion says "get people to act contrary to their nature".

    Anduin is mad at Wrathion, but Anduin was already mad before even Wrathion showed up.
    His reaction is pretty much the result of N'zoth getting into his head as well.
    Does it mean that Blizzard is aware of Anduin's non-toxic masculinity.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  12. #72
    I thought he punched him *acted out of character* because of the influence of N'zoth creeping in Stormwind?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    He just freed Garrosh and killed some people in Xuen's temple. Rest is Garrosh.

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    Does it mean that Blizzard is aware of Anduin's non-toxic masculinity.
    "he just freed the genocidal maniac awaiting trail and killed some guards"

    Ita called being an accomplice. You don't get to release a known dangerous criminal that's awaiting trail for war crimes and absolve yourself of the consequences.

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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelathos View Post
    Didn't happen in game, doesn't exist. Kappa.
    DuRr DiDn'T hUpPon iN GaMe, DoNt ExiSt.

    It happened in the book, War Crimes, which is canon and a part of the game. Effin dolt.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I thought he punched him *acted out of character* because of the influence of N'zoth creeping in Stormwind?
    Yes. It was unlike him to do that. Which is a shame, I was kind of hoping that some of Varian was coming out at last. But nope.

    My point is that regardless if it was ooc. Wrathion absolutely deserved it. In fact, Wrathion shouldn't have gotten an audience with Anduin at all.

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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Wrathion was responsible for WoD.

    ........ we should all be punching him
    Sorry but I'm saving my rage up for Odyn, a lot of things can be laid at his doorstep that need to be "discussed".

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    No wrathion -> no warlords -> no gul'dan -> no legion (at least not as soon) -> Varian would still be alive.
    gonna add to it: -> Varian still alive + vol jin still alive -> sylvanas not warchief -> no 2 burned zones and +10k dead night elves.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    There's many reasons why we don't, and this is what makes our judgment not do it. The reason why we never see people getting punched just once is because the amount of hatred necessary to make us not give a shit about all the consequences is also more than enough to make us not stop at one punch. It's just an extremely unrealistic action that makes this scene lose credibility (among with many other scenes that have characters do very caricaturesque behaviour).
    It's amazing how you can say so many words, and manage to be wrong on every single point about them.

    To begin with - you're comparing real life consequences of the modern day with a fantasy setting that does not have the same laws and criminal punishment systems as we do. Azeroth is a world based on high medieval fantasy, where someone punching another person doesn't lead with the person who did the punching going to prison over an assault charge. Assuming that someone in Azeroth would run and cry to a guard about being punched, the person would likely spend a day or two in the Stockades, and then be released with no lasting charges. What is more likely to happen, however, is someone gets really mad in a tavern, starts a brawl, and is thrown out by the tavern keeper, who is likely to threaten to kill the guy if he comes back. Why? Because this is a medieval high fantasy world, not the modern world, people have different moral values in Azeroth, and the justice system there is a hell of a lot different than ours. Remember, Garrosh was a war criminal who was being judged by magical ancient beings that were going to forgive him for what he did, even though by modern standards, Garrosh would have been put to death for any number of his atrocities.

    Second, this is a magical world where you have berserking warriors whose strength is fueled by how angry they are, Rogues that can disappear into the shadows with a flick of the wrist, mages that can hurl fire balls at one another, and a laundry list of other completely fantastical things. Punching someone is probably considered a pretty minimal way of showing your distaste towards another person in Azeroth, especially considering Anduin could have mind-flayed Wrathion should have have desired, so clearly there was some restraint in there somewhere.

    Than you have to consider that Anduin is being heavily manipulated by N'zoth, an eldritch horror capable of corruption and manipulation. Remind me again how many of those exist in the real world? Anduin acting out of character was done intentionally by Blizzard to push that point, and put weight in Wrathion's revelation to Anduin at the end of the cinematic.

    All of that can simply be boiled down by the fact that you're trying to think that the real world laws apply to the people in Azeroth, and they don't. If there weren't assault laws here in the US that prevent people from outright punching others, you can be damned well sure you'd see a lot more fights on the streets and in bars than you do now. Assault charges are the *only* thing keeping most people from hauling off and punching someone, not moral values.

  19. #79
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesyphon View Post
    It's amazing how you can say so many words, and manage to be wrong on every single point about them.

    To begin with - you're comparing real life consequences of the modern day with a fantasy setting that does not have the same laws and criminal punishment systems as we do. Azeroth is a world based on high medieval fantasy, where someone punching another person doesn't lead with the person who did the punching going to prison over an assault charge. Assuming that someone in Azeroth would run and cry to a guard about being punched, the person would likely spend a day or two in the Stockades, and then be released with no lasting charges. What is more likely to happen, however, is someone gets really mad in a tavern, starts a brawl, and is thrown out by the tavern keeper, who is likely to threaten to kill the guy if he comes back. Why? Because this is a medieval high fantasy world, not the modern world, people have different moral values in Azeroth, and the justice system there is a hell of a lot different than ours. Remember, Garrosh was a war criminal who was being judged by magical ancient beings that were going to forgive him for what he did, even though by modern standards, Garrosh would have been put to death for any number of his atrocities.

    Second, this is a magical world where you have berserking warriors whose strength is fueled by how angry they are, Rogues that can disappear into the shadows with a flick of the wrist, mages that can hurl fire balls at one another, and a laundry list of other completely fantastical things. Punching someone is probably considered a pretty minimal way of showing your distaste towards another person in Azeroth, especially considering Anduin could have mind-flayed Wrathion should have have desired, so clearly there was some restraint in there somewhere.

    Than you have to consider that Anduin is being heavily manipulated by N'zoth, an eldritch horror capable of corruption and manipulation. Remind me again how many of those exist in the real world? Anduin acting out of character was done intentionally by Blizzard to push that point, and put weight in Wrathion's revelation to Anduin at the end of the cinematic.

    All of that can simply be boiled down by the fact that you're trying to think that the real world laws apply to the people in Azeroth, and they don't. If there weren't assault laws here in the US that prevent people from outright punching others, you can be damned well sure you'd see a lot more fights on the streets and in bars than you do now. Assault charges are the *only* thing keeping most people from hauling off and punching someone, not moral values.
    And you say I am the one who says so many words to be wrong on every single point? That's ironic as hell, my dude. We're supposed to randomly assume that whatever behavior Blizzard gives their characters is perfectly normal how it works in a world that has "no reference" because it's "fictional"? WoW, like any work of fiction, is inspired by real life and is seen by people who live in the present and therefore can only relate with what they know, not what the writers imagine without explaining (literally ever). You think people dislike the story for fun or just because Sylvanas is too present? No, it's vastly because none of the character actions are credible, the dialogues don't sound like what anyone would say in a similar situation, even if you try to make some weird ass excuses about game mechanics affecting people's psyche.

    It's not complicated, it's a work made for a public who lives in the present, it's not a documentary about the imagination of someone who can't explain what they see in their head. Plenty of fiction work did this perfectly right, Blizzard has not and none of your wrong explanation will change these facts.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Savant View Post

    Remind me why Anduin punched Wrathian. Okey, Varian died, but how is this linked to Wrathian?



    okey guys, thanks for the answers, no need for more replies!
    its part of a storyline from mists of pandaria's end, having to do with the legendary cloak, the questline that was removed. wrathion apparently let Garrosh go, and helped him slip through time creating the alternate universe draenor.

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