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  1. #81
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    No. I do LFR because that is the path of least resistance to beat all the content. I would love it if there was only 1 difficulty that forced me to raid in a serious guild and the raids were heroic/mythic level difficulty.

    I don't want to, however, play mythic raids, when I can just beat it all in LFR.

    And Blizzard seem to think just because LFR is "popular" it's fun? It's not. It's just not hard at all and when you finally beat LFR it just feels like "finally". No excitement what so ever.
    So you play LFR because its not fun? And you want to raid harder difficulties, but you wont?

    Did I sum you up about right here?

    Why is it Blizz's responsibility to give you will power?

  2. #82
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I am tired of constantly seeing scaling dungeons and raids. It is a bad and lazy design that completely puts me, and MANY others, off doing it.

    My motivation to do a raid is to "beat it". My motivation to do content before it, is to get gear so I can do the later content.

    Once I beat Illidan in TBC, I quit raiding. I know sunwell came after, but my motivation was set on Illidan. Once I beat Lich King on NORMAL difficulty with a bunch of dumb catch up week stacks in WotLK, I quit raiding. In Cataclysm, I only did 10 man, cuz it's less effort to beat the content. After LFR, I have quit raiding completely.

    This whole M+ system is so unbelieveably unfun. I enjoyed Kara in Legion as a "megadungeon" with only 1 difficulty. How hard is it to keep dungeons being 1 difficulty?

    People started bitching a little in WotLK when there was hard modes in Ulduar, and when it turned to a UI choice in Trail raid, it really started rubbing people the wrong way.

    Classic has no scaling. TBC has only scaling in Dungeons (would have been better without heroics too). These are the best parts of WoW. Coincidence? I think not...

    Shadowlands, same stupid scaling systems.

    How exactly is it fun to do the same boss fight again with higher HP/DPS?

    EDIT:
    Look at games like Dark Souls, being much more enjoyable exactly BECAUSE they don't have a difficulty slider.

    What we need is some raids being easy (early ones) and some being hard (last raid of the expansion). Then guilds can get stuck at whatever skill level they are at. It's completely OK that Method beats the early raids in a week.
    So a game design that has been proven to work - vastly higher raid engagement in modern expansions than we had in BC/vanilla - should be changed because YOU refuse to do them? Um... no?

    WoW is an MMO (that costs millions of dollars a month to run/upkeep). So the idea that they should treat it like a SP game with a flat difficulty curve to appease the demands of random angry forum posters like you is just plain stupid. If you want to play Dark Souls, go play Dark Souls. Maybe WoW isn't for you.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post

    I love how so many people here try to gatekeep their heroic/mythic raiding thinking people not doing it are not capable of doing it. I am perfectly capable, I just don't have any motivation to do it because I already beat the raid. Is that so hard to understand?
    The motivation is the challenge, or the rewards, or seeing all the encounters how they were fully designed to be played.

    If you don't care about any of those things, which you obviously don't, LFR exists for people like you. You're literally the intended target for LFR, so why are you complaining?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Does it really though? Think many people prefer lich king style of dungeons/raids than the crapfest that's been handed to us since Legion.
    many? perhaps
    majority? definitely not
    and its not like you HAVE TO do m+ dungeons, you dont even have to do mythic dungeons you can do heroics, get some gear from other activity and jump straight to raids...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    it's optional.
    so is doing higher/lower difficulty content in wow...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Let's see how long the game survives if LFR would be the only difficulty and there is no reason to do any thing beyond that.
    not long, but i would say longer than if the only difficulty is mythic (or maybe even hc)...
    having any single difficulty just have no advantage

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Were there no challenges in TBC? Hello? They have 1 difficulty.

    Why does 1 difficulty = LFR difficulty? It does not.

    I love how so many people here try to gatekeep their heroic/mythic raiding thinking people not doing it are not capable of doing it. I am perfectly capable, I just don't have any motivation to do it because I already beat the raid. Is that so hard to understand?

    "If you don't like LFR just don't do it LOL" - Same argument being used with flying mounts - "If you don't like flying mounts just don't use them LOL".
    So you play all games in easy mode and call it done?

  6. #86
    You will not do dungeons because you want to be able to beat them so you can stop doing them. OK . . .
    I guess the circular arrow in the thread title suggests the type of logic being used?
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2020-01-16 at 09:58 AM.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  7. #87
    Raids and dungeons should just be a social experience like they were in the past and not this exclusive experience that Blizzard thinks is fun. Ion is ruining this game with his elitist attitude and the rest of the developers are just as bad because they don't care anymore, always appealing to the less than 1%.

  8. #88
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    .... and MANY others
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Most people don't care
    Can we stop with this claim as if you know what "most people" want or don't want or tell us some of the "many" others who agree with you?

    Also this is not how it works if you want to start pulling numbers - then raiding should have been dead and killed as a feature by Blizzard because indeed almost nobody did care about doing Naxx. And few cared about raiding at all.

    If "most don't care about scaling difficulty" is your point, then "most also don't care about raiding, period". And if we decide what difficulty to keep going by the numbers of people playing it, I guess mythic, heroic and normal go out of the window and LFR stays - That is what you get by your "Most people" logic.

    Also: I never got this complaining. Here are several difficulties. And here is scaling (which in mythic+ you can actually influence) - how about you only do the difficulty you care about and let others enjoy THEIR difficulty of choice.

    Maybe just like the pieces in Tetris falling ever faster, people enjoy testing themselves against higher odds? Maybe that never was a problem ever since TBC when we had normal and heroic 5 mans or WotLK when we introduced Hardmodes, different raidsizes and difficulties to accost the needs and preferences of more people?

  9. #89
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I am tired of constantly seeing scaling dungeons and raids. It is a bad and lazy design that completely puts me, and MANY others, off doing it.

    My motivation to do a raid is to "beat it". My motivation to do content before it, is to get gear so I can do the later content.

    Once I beat Illidan in TBC, I quit raiding. I know sunwell came after, but my motivation was set on Illidan. Once I beat Lich King on NORMAL difficulty with a bunch of dumb catch up week stacks in WotLK, I quit raiding. In Cataclysm, I only did 10 man, cuz it's less effort to beat the content. After LFR, I have quit raiding completely.

    This whole M+ system is so unbelieveably unfun. I enjoyed Kara in Legion as a "megadungeon" with only 1 difficulty. How hard is it to keep dungeons being 1 difficulty?

    People started bitching a little in WotLK when there was hard modes in Ulduar, and when it turned to a UI choice in Trail raid, it really started rubbing people the wrong way.

    Classic has no scaling. TBC has only scaling in Dungeons (would have been better without heroics too). These are the best parts of WoW. Coincidence? I think not...

    Shadowlands, same stupid scaling systems.

    How exactly is it fun to do the same boss fight again with higher HP/DPS?

    EDIT:
    Look at games like Dark Souls, being much more enjoyable exactly BECAUSE they don't have a difficulty slider.

    What we need is some raids being easy (early ones) and some being hard (last raid of the expansion). Then guilds can get stuck at whatever skill level they are at. It's completely OK that Method beats the early raids in a week.
    You don't have to do them, they are optional content. I don't think Blizz expects you to want to do each and every activity in the game. Some people like them though, so why would you want to ruin it for those people if it doesn't really make a difference to you? Seems a little... selfish?

    I don't really worry about the parts of the game I don't play since it doesn't really concern me.

    Also: TBC has a scaling raid- Black temple scales during the time walking week.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Most people don't care if there is multiple or 1 difficulty. They don't think further than "Am I having fun?". That's the extent of their logic. They don't say "I only have fun if we have 4 difficulties and unlimited dungeon scaling", do they?

    And I think more people would say they are having fun if the dungeon and raid system was "I do this so I can beat this next boss".
    So you want it to either be so easy that everyone can do it and there's no challenge or hard enough that most people won't be able to do it (a la BC) and Blizzard is wasting their money creating content no one is going to see.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  12. #92
    High Overlord Stooned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I am tired of constantly seeing scaling dungeons and raids. It is a bad and lazy design that completely puts me, and MANY others, off doing it.

    My motivation to do a raid is to "beat it". My motivation to do content before it, is to get gear so I can do the later content.

    Once I beat Illidan in TBC, I quit raiding. I know sunwell came after, but my motivation was set on Illidan. Once I beat Lich King on NORMAL difficulty with a bunch of dumb catch up week stacks in WotLK, I quit raiding. In Cataclysm, I only did 10 man, cuz it's less effort to beat the content. After LFR, I have quit raiding completely.

    This whole M+ system is so unbelieveably unfun. I enjoyed Kara in Legion as a "megadungeon" with only 1 difficulty. How hard is it to keep dungeons being 1 difficulty?

    People started bitching a little in WotLK when there was hard modes in Ulduar, and when it turned to a UI choice in Trail raid, it really started rubbing people the wrong way.

    Classic has no scaling. TBC has only scaling in Dungeons (would have been better without heroics too). These are the best parts of WoW. Coincidence? I think not...

    Shadowlands, same stupid scaling systems.

    How exactly is it fun to do the same boss fight again with higher HP/DPS?

    EDIT:
    Look at games like Dark Souls, being much more enjoyable exactly BECAUSE they don't have a difficulty slider.

    What we need is some raids being easy (early ones) and some being hard (last raid of the expansion). Then guilds can get stuck at whatever skill level they are at. It's completely OK that Method beats the early raids in a week.
    "Okay then. You will have no impact on our decision making" - Blizzard

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  13. #93
    Don't you see how it works? Don't you understand that what you want and how you see your version of this game isn't what others do?

    For instance, stick with me here. I played back then also, it had no replayability, you finished a dungeon, you finished a raid, it was over, you AFK'ed in hubs or rolled an alt.

    You see now, there are tons and tons of different difficulties in every aspect of PVE, i like this. I think M+ is 1 of the best systems ever introduced to this game and raiding is much better than back then.

    That's also just my opinion though and i don't claim it's the best parts of wow, because i also understand people will disagree.

    Nice blog post, just unsub mate and move on.

  14. #94
    Oh for sure. I remember the joy and happiness of players when the majority of the could not even enter BT/Hyjal because of the Vashj/Kael block. Or even better, the ones doomed to t4, ZA and heroics forever because they couldn't dedicate days to raid.
    Devs also loved how all those raids only got seen by 1%.

    I'm wondering, if blizzard decided to remove all difficulties but mythic, what guild would accept the OP to raid only until he kills the last boss once.

    @OP Then don't do them. We will, and we'll enjoy them.

  15. #95
    Pandaren Monk Bumbasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    One of these days the devs are going to make a change you don't like and you'll try to find someone to complain to about it. I hope they find the message of yours that I quoted and dismiss your complaint the same way you did to OP.
    There's enough asepcts of the game I don't like, battle pet for instance. I also have the same solution to the problem as you have, I don't play the parts of the game I don't like. I however do not go to the battlepets forum to complain about it. There are people who enjoy them, just like ppl enjoy dungeon scaling, so I let them be.
    "This is no swaggering askari, no Idi Amin Dada, heavyweight boxing champion of the King's African Rifles, nor some wide shouldered, medal-strewn Nigerian general. This is an altogether more dangerous dictator - an intellectual, a spitefull African Robespierre who has outlasted them all." - The Fear: Robert Mugabe and the martyrdom of Zimbabwe, Peter Godwin.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I am perfectly capable, I just don't have any motivation to do it because I already beat the raid. Is that so hard to understand?
    Except you didn't. You've beat a dumbed down version of it for people that are not capable of beating playing the proper version.
    It's like you'd go swiming in your back yard pool and then pretend you've won the Olympics

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Were there no challenges in TBC? Hello? They have 1 difficulty.

    Why does 1 difficulty = LFR difficulty? It does not.

    I love how so many people here try to gatekeep their heroic/mythic raiding thinking people not doing it are not capable of doing it. I am perfectly capable, I just don't have any motivation to do it because I already beat the raid. Is that so hard to understand?

    "If you don't like LFR just don't do it LOL" - Same argument being used with flying mounts - "If you don't like flying mounts just don't use them LOL".
    BC was challenging when players were at the level they were when it was new content. It has no challenge for players of the highest caliber that play the game today. Put my raid team in any BC raid with enough gear and every single boss is a oneshot. Without a single doubt.

    1 difficulty does not even have to be LFR. It's enough that 1 difficulty is heroic (which it won't be) to mean absolutely zero challenge to players like myself. Only mythic poses any challenge. And the single difficulty you're suggesting would not be mythic, so I would have absolutely no reason to play, because I play games to challenge myself.

    There's no gatekeeping going on. Many people are not able to step into mythic. That's not the same as saying many people are not capable of ever stepping into mythic if they try hard enough. Not everyone wants to try hard and learn the game enough in order to be able to comfortably step into mythic. That's fine, that's why we have multiple difficulties.
    Last edited by Sezh; 2020-01-16 at 01:19 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Once I beat Illidan in TBC, I quit raiding. I know sunwell came after, but my motivation was set on Illidan. Once I beat Lich King on NORMAL difficulty with a bunch of dumb catch up week stacks in WotLK, I quit raiding. In Cataclysm, I only did 10 man, cuz it's less effort to beat the content. After LFR, I have quit raiding completely.
    In other words, you only want to do easy stuff and then quit. No one else should have the opportunity to challenge themselves because you don't like it. What's keeping you from doing Mythic 0 dungeons and normal raids and quitting now?

  19. #99
    I'm not sure what your complaint is.

    You say once you do content, you're done. Then you say you want content to be harder.

    So you remove M+ do a dungeon and kill it so you stop playing and complain that it was too easy and there's not enough content.

    Or they implement hard dungeons from the get go and you do it and die, do it and die, do it and die, then finally clear it.

    How is that second scenario any different from going through M+? But with M+ and scaling instead of dying, you start low, clear it and move onto a harder difficulty until you hit a wall. In both scenarios facing the same bosses over and over again, just in M+ you're actually getting some kills and rewards along the way.

    As for raids, you say remove LFR because people only do it because it's the path of least resistance, which is true, but removing that won't magically make people want to do normal difficulty or higher. Most people that run LFR do so because they just want to see the story and have no interest in raiding. I am one of those people. I've done high level raiding, I've done casual raiding and now I have no interest in raiding except to see story.

    Despite the people that think they know better than Blizz (who actually have the data) claiming it's killing the game, LFR is one of the best things to happen to WoW for people like me. Back before LFR, I knew loads of people that would watch videos of the raids instead of doing it themselves because they didn't have the time or patience to get into a raid guild and do the raids themselves, so unless they watched videos, they missed out on huge chunks of story. Removing LFR wouldn't make people do normal or harder difficulties, it would just make a load of people stop playing.

    The point I'm trying to make, is scaling for dungeons and raids adds accessibility to the game that allows so many more people to enjoy the game how they want. If you aren't enjoying it and need to be forced to do content, that's a you problem and WoW probably isn't the game for you anymore.

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