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  1. #101
    Putin is looking for a trusted successor that would allow him to retire from the day-to-day management of the country. He wants to keep his wealth, power and personal security. He is also looking for someone who wont smash to bits everything hes done in the past 20 years (a lovely Russian tradition). He wants to build up institutions capable of rule without him but also wants to be able to step in at anytime. Something something 'you can't have your cake and eat it'. At this point he only stays on because he thinks things would collapse without him, or because he, his friends or his family would not be safe. Managed “democracy” 2.0.

  2. #102
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Anyone remember all of those times big news came out that Russia, specifically under Putin's instruction, was doing things... like say... Ukraine, to name just ONE EXAMPLE. All of the little Russian posters swarmed here saying that everyone was wrong about those things, and that dear leader Putin would never do such things. Wait a few months and surprise... it was all true. And the same people come back here and go "Well I don't care that Putin has lied to us about everything in the past, THIS TIME he's telling the truth!"
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Isn't Emperor spelled Czar in Russian?
    They'd have to have an empire for that. The only people Putin is oppressing is Russians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #104
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Maybe he needs more power for his history retcons?

  5. #105
    Some of more balanced coverage:
    Is Putin a megalomaniac?
    By Ben Aris in Berlin January 17, 2020
    Is Russian President Vladimir Putin a megalomaniac? The reaction of the commentatori to the huge changes in Russia’s political DNA suggested by the president was kneejerk and entirely predictable.

    The Express went with “Putin’s naked power grab.” Bloomberg had “Putin the Puppet Master Shows He Still Has the Power to Shock”. And that was despite the fact that Putin’s suggestions result in moving power back into the Duma where it belongs and that he will voluntarily give up at least some of his power.

    Just how much power he will retain and how of course is a key question. Whatever just happened, a transformation of Russia from a presidential republic to a parliamentary democracy was not one of them. Still, Putin’s decision to give up some of his power is unprecedented, but the western narrative is so invested in its demonisation of Putin it has become a crude reduction portraying everything in terms of Putin’s person.

    In “Putin’s Russia” the Russia part is missing. Everything Putin does is exclusively for Putin’s personal benefit and there can be no other explanation. The possibility that Putin is genuinely concerned about Russia and acting in the interests of the Russian people as he tries to rebuild the country after its total collapse in 1991 is simply discarded.

    In Putin’s Russia, Putin is a megalomaniac whose every action is designed to increase his power and earn him more wealth.

    This description actually fits all the leaders of the CIS well. Almost all of them have changed the constitution to make themselves de facto leaders for life. Almost all of them have some sort of personality cult. Almost all of them are demonstrably wealthy. And clearly almost all of them believe they are the only one able to steer their countries through this difficult period. None of this is true of Putin except the last point: clearly Putin believes he is the only one capable of rebuilding Russia.

    However, unlike the accession countries of Central Europe that embraced EU-style liberalism, Putin has gone in the opposition direction. He explained his plan right back at the start of his first term in office in a little noticed speech. He said that Mikhail Gorbachev’s mistake in perestroika was to do the political reforms first and leave the economics for later. The situation quickly ran out of control and rapidly led to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Putin has reversed this thinking: do the economic reforms first and the politics later.

    Tenuous grip on power

    “Putin’s Russia” implies that Putin has total control of Russia, whereas digging into the voting data shows that while he has a firm grip on power, he has a tenuous grip on total control.

    Putin’s sky-high personal popularity makes him impervious to a palace coup. In the elections the most important constituency is not the people but the elite and while Putin would walk to victory even in free and open elections, the actual elections are fixed as he needs to win by a wide margin to assure the elite he is in full control.

    His hold over the Duma is based on the vote of United Russia and he exercises it via his proxy, former prime minister Dmitry Medvedev.

    But Putin’s grip on the Duma has been slipping in recent years. The fix in the 2011 Duma elections was so blatant that it resulted in 100,000-strong street protests. In that that election, despite the addition of an estimated 11% to United Russia’s tally, two thirds of the regions voted less than 50% for United Russia and one third voted less than 40%. United Russia’s continued majority depended entirely on the vote in eight regions, including Chechnya and Tatarstan, that delivered over 80% of the vote for United Russia (and more in some cases).



    Since then United Russia has become even more unpopular, as is the whole government. United Russia’s electoral rating dropped to a new low of 33.8% in January 2019 and the substantial fix that is now necessary to allow it to take over 50% of the vote will almost certainly lead to popular unrest. Even Putin acknowledged this in his state of the nation speech on January 15 saying the people were becoming more “politically mature”.

    This must be one of the main reasons why he is moving more power to the Duma and presumably intends to allow more parties to run as a way of increasing the appeal of the government as he can’t rely on United Russia alone as his proxy in government any more.

    Interestingly while both the government and United Russia are increasingly unpopular, Russia’s regional governors have seen their popularity soar in the last year. During the last elections Putin turned to the regional governors to deliver the votes he needed to get both himself and United Russia re-elected and the associated largess has stuck to the regional governors as a result.

    The regional governors saw their approval tick up 2pp in September to 63%, which is now on a par with Putin’s own popularity. Putin is now widely expected to move sideways to the State Council, which is made up of governors, and gives him a solid base to continue to control the country.

    Instead of acting through regional Duma deputies, the governors give Putin a tool to directly act in every region of Russia. In this sense Medvedev’s appointment to the newly created role of vice-president of the State Council, which will also see its powers increased, is continuation of the Putin-Medvedev double act that has been the staple of Russian politics for almost two decades.

    Constitutional changes

    Another part of the narrative is that Putin is constantly on the cusp of changing the constitution to nix the two-term rule and make himself president for life.

    In fact Putin has marked himself out as a legalist, who has stuck to the word of the constitution and constantly lambasts the west for their double standards in ignoring international law. Sometimes this fixation on constitutional change reaches ridiculous extremes. On the eve of the presidential vote in 2008 when Putin stepped down, a flash report from the newswires said: “Putin on his way to [Russian TV centre]. Possible constitutional change could be announced.” All he did was go on telly to cajole Russians to go out and vote.

    Changing the constitution to nix the two-term rule is becoming more and more difficult. By stepping down in 2008 and keeping to the terms of the constitution Putin only made it stronger. If he were to try to change it now the upshot would probably be large scale public demonstrations. The polls say that the Russian people like and admire Putin, but they also show they are ready for a change and want a new president after Putin’s term is up.

    And putting the proposed constitution changes to a referendum – the first in 23 years – will only strengthen the constitution’s authority again. Indeed, because of the mood in the country he has to put the changes to a referendum. If he simply put it to the Duma and used his power there to railroad the changes through that too could spark unrest. A recent poll found that Russians feel increasingly disconnected from government. These changes and a referendum is an opportunity for the Kremlin to reconnect with the the increasingly demanding population. And it is almost certain that the population will support the changes as they want to see an end to the politics of stagnation and it is a simple matter to sell these changes as a “fresh start”.

    If the changes have a popular mandate then it makes it even more difficult for any subsequent leader to change the constitution back without sparking popular unrest. A referendum on Putin’s changes should lock the new system he is creating in place.

    What is his motivation?

    The reshuffle is not about creating a mechanism for Putin to stay in power, although it does include a role for him to stay on in a caretaker capacity.

    The changes are designed to allow him to step back from power, but at the same time to protect his legacy and ensure the system doesn't implode.

    The irony here is he has built a system where all the power accrued to the president but now has to undo this by building solid institutions that will outlast him.

    Putin himself made those institutions weak as a central plank of his control system. The very weakness of Medvedev as prime minister gave the Kremlin full control over the running of government.

    Putin is now trying to turn that system on its head, but has built into this system a place in the State Council (or similar leverage point) where he can oversee the change as a caretaker to make sure this transition doesn't go wrong.

    This is a huge task and will take time, which is one of the reasons that he launched the whole programme in 2020 as it gives him four years to manage the process. If he truly wanted to remain in charge, as president of in some other role, then it would have made more sense to wait until 2024 to spring whatever scheme on the people as a fait accompli.

    Putin is not a megalomaniac. His overriding motivation is to make Russia great again and at the same time he is tired of the job. Despite the total control Putin has over the system in recent years he has increasing removed himself from the day to day running of the country, increasingly leaving the management of the economy to the liberal camp, headed by former finance minister and Audit Chamber head Alexei Kudrin, Finance Minister Anton Siluanov, Minister of Economy Maxim Oreshkin and CBR governor Elvira Nabiullina.

    Putin only gets involved in the mega-state-funded projects such as the Kerch bridge to the Crimea, the Power of Siberia gas pipeline to China as well as leading the foreign policy drive in Ukraine, Syria and now Libya.

    “He really is tired and he really does want to leave. He is not someone who enjoys power for power’s sake, but at this point rules because he thinks things would collapse without him, or because he, his friends or his family would not be safe,” tweeted Anna Arutunyan, senior Russian analyst with the Crisis Group.

    The changes to the constitution won’t make Russia more democratic as the power remains with the elite. That is part of the problem. Even after 20 years Putin clearly still doesn't think Russia is ready for those political reforms, even if moving power back into the Duma is a step in the democratic direction.

    He also doesn't trust his colleagues, which is why he has made a cubbyhole of power that can reach down onto the ground in every region of the country from which he can oversee the process.

    “Putin prizes order, efficiency, and institutional rule. His patronage of Medvedev’s anti-corruption and modernisation campaign during the placeholder presidency of 2008-2012, however half-hearted, is testament to that,” Arutunyan said.

    And the rise of the liberal fraction is also a testimony to that. They are now fully in charge of economic policy and implementation, to the point where the Ministry of Finance successfully forced Gazprom and Rosneft – the two most power state-owned enterprises (SOEs) in Russia – to increase their dividend payments to 50%, despite determined opposition by the incumbent management.

    The appointment of Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has only increased the power of the liberal faction as Mishustin belongs to this crowd: apolitical, modest, a driven technocrat, a highly efficient administrator, financially savvy and, above all else, honest, according those that have worked with him.

    Mishustin is a manger, who has been put in charge with a job to do: make the national projects work. He stands in total contrast to Medvedev, who was a Putin puppet there to give Putin direct control of the Duma by proxy.

    The bottom line is Putin wants it both ways: he wants to dilute the power of the presidency so the whole succession issue of 2024 is less of an issue; and he wants to stay in charge, not because he wants to stay in charge, but he doesn't believe the system is ready to run on its own without someone overseeing it.

    And he is probably right about the latter point. And he is also to blame for the system’s inability to function on its own as he is responsible for keeping the institutions weak, for concentrating so much power in his own hands and for running the country on the basis of the bureaucrat-client relations where corruption is the system, as bne IntelliNews has previously argued.

    The new system Putin is proposing is not a democratic one, but it is a step away from the authoritarian rule where the president is in full control of all the real power. It is an extension of the “managed sovereignty” that has been a theme of his tenure, but it also creates a mechanism for a smoother move towards a democratic Russia by increasingly freeing new parties in the Duma to have real debates and become increasingly accountable to the public.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Stock market is also up after this latest reshuffle (which is nice).

  6. #106
    That article blindly ignores that the President has term limits, while the Prime Minister (who is a member of the Duma this article so gushingly praises Putin for giving power back to) does not.

    And that Putin's party has an overwhelming parliamentary majority, thanks to decades of corruption and suppression of opposition politics, including outright murder. And that Putin can simply become a Prime Minister, for life, or put a puppet in the premiership like he did with Medyegev, while he controls that person from an out-of-sight National Concil, because all the power is vested in the PM-ship.

    The whole rest of the article talking about the rising unpopularity of United Russia and the rise of liberalism in Russia is hilarious window-dressing, as if the 2011 elections happened a lifetime ago instead of NINE YEARS AGO. He will meddle in his own elections, people will protest, he will arrest them, like in 2011, some people will die......and that'll be the end of it. Just like every other election.

    That makes him an authoritarian nutjob. I would look up the biases of your source, but I don't want to give them a click. But it is one of the most poorly thought out arguments/analyses I've ever read.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    That article blindly ignores that the President has term limits, while the Prime Minister (who is a member of the Duma this article so gushingly praises Putin for giving power back to) does not.
    Not "ignores". Just sees it as bad explanation to his actual actions.

    See this:
    The reshuffle is not about creating a mechanism for Putin to stay in power, although it does include a role for him to stay on in a caretaker capacity.
    ...
    Putin is now trying to turn that system on its head, but has built into this system a place in the State Council (or similar leverage point) where he can oversee the change as a caretaker to make sure this transition doesn't go wrong.

    This is a huge task and will take time, which is one of the reasons that he launched the whole programme in 2020 as it gives him four years to manage the process. If he truly wanted to remain in charge, as president of in some other role, then it would have made more sense to wait until 2024 to spring whatever scheme on the people as a fait accompli.

    It isn't obvious that Putin is aiming for prime minister (it is a lot of actual work and he does look tired); he is likely going "elder statesman" route - that is, "guiding powers", but not much day-to-day micromanagement.

    And that Putin's party has an overwhelming parliamentary majority, thanks to decades of corruption and suppression of opposition politics, including outright murder. And that Putin can simply become a Prime Minister, for life, or put a puppet in the premiership like he did with Medyegev, while he controls that person from an out-of-sight National Concil, because all the power is vested in the PM-ship.
    What specifically makes you think that he wants switching to PM? (other then "he already done it in the past")

    "Puppet PM" - sure, that's a possibility. By new proposal President even cannot reject Duma-appointed government ministers - even though he can dismiss them later for losing his confidence/bad work.

    The whole rest of the article talking about the rising unpopularity of United Russia and the rise of liberalism in Russia is hilarious window-dressing, as if the 2011 elections happened a lifetime ago instead of NINE YEARS AGO. He will meddle in his own elections, people will protest, he will arrest them, like in 2011, some people will die......and that'll be the end of it. Just like every other election.
    You're overestimating United Russia abilities - and underestimate their unpopularity. Given sufficiently determined opponents, they can and do lose elections - even with all the fraud and local interference.

    Which opens room to break United Russia's parlimentary majority in the future - perhaps even as soon as next parlimentary elections.

    Then, given increased Duma powers, things can actually change.

    That makes him an authoritarian nutjob. I would look up the biases of your source, but I don't want to give them a click. But it is one of the most poorly thought out arguments/analyses I've ever read.
    As article says, you're focusing too much on "Putin's" in "Putin's Russia" and ignoring the "Russia" bit - that actually constrains Putin's space of possibilities quite a lot. Putting everything on "authoritarian nutjob" skips way too much of reality.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Not "ignores". Just sees it as bad explanation to his actual actions.

    See this:
    The reshuffle is not about creating a mechanism for Putin to stay in power, although it does include a role for him to stay on in a caretaker capacity.
    ...
    Putin is now trying to turn that system on its head, but has built into this system a place in the State Council (or similar leverage point) where he can oversee the change as a caretaker to make sure this transition doesn't go wrong.

    This is a huge task and will take time, which is one of the reasons that he launched the whole programme in 2020 as it gives him four years to manage the process. If he truly wanted to remain in charge, as president of in some other role, then it would have made more sense to wait until 2024 to spring whatever scheme on the people as a fait accompli.

    It isn't obvious that Putin is aiming for prime minister (it is a lot of actual work and he does look tired); he is likely going "elder statesman" route - that is, "guiding powers", but not much day-to-day micromanagement.

    What specifically makes you think that he wants switching to PM? (other then "he already done it in the past")

    "Puppet PM" - sure, that's a possibility. By new proposal President even cannot reject Duma-appointed government ministers - even though he can dismiss them later for losing his confidence/bad work.

    You're overestimating United Russia abilities - and underestimate their unpopularity. Given sufficiently determined opponents, they can and do lose elections - even with all the fraud and local interference.

    Which opens room to break United Russia's parlimentary majority in the future - perhaps even as soon as next parlimentary elections.

    Then, given increased Duma powers, things can actually change.

    As article says, you're focusing too much on "Putin's" in "Putin's Russia" and ignoring the "Russia" bit - that actually constrains Putin's space of possibilities quite a lot. Putting everything on "authoritarian nutjob" skips way too much of reality.
    Or you can see this for what it is a power play for Putin to stay in power forever time will tell which one of us is right but history is a guide for his behavior that seems more likely. If Putin really wanted to be a hands off caretaker he would have fostered proteges and people within his party to take his place but he has cut down any that might because of his grip on power.

    Let's also make one thing clear Russia's elections are a joke Putin runs against puppet opponents anyone who could challenge him gets arrested or has "accidents".

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Or you can see this for what it is a power play for Putin to stay in power forever time will tell which one of us is right but history is a guide for his behavior that seems more likely. If Putin really wanted to be a hands off caretaker he would have fostered proteges and people within his party to take his place but he has cut down any that might because of his grip on power.
    He did try "fostering proteges". That's what the whole thing with Medvedev was, when he was mostly "hands off" as PM (even had some trusted ministers like Kudrin dismissed along the way).

    It didn't work out so well. Trying doesn't mean succeeding.

    This latest attempt is going at "transition from power" from another direction then essentially "appointing new President by Presidential decree" as it happened with Yeltsin->Putin transition.

    More of a system creating better outcomes, less of direct decision-making. Underlined by choice of PM that is considered to be highly unlikely as "successor".

    Let's also make one thing clear Russia's elections are a joke Putin runs against puppet opponents anyone who could challenge him gets arrested or has "accidents".
    But Putin isn't going to run in next elections, thus noone will be directly challenging him.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2020-01-19 at 11:37 AM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    He did try "fostering proteges". That's what the whole thing with Medvedev was, when he was mostly "hands off" as PM (even had some trusted ministers like Kudrin dismissed along the way).

    It didn't work out so well. Trying doesn't mean succeeding.

    This latest attempt is going at "transition from power" from another direction then essentially "appointing new President by Presidential decree" as it happened with Yeltsin->Putin transition.

    More of a system creating better outcomes, less of direct decision-making. Underlined by choice of PM that is considered to be highly unlikely as "successor".
    He is going the be the next PM the new PM is just a placeholder, Putin never fostered proteges he made sure to cut their wings so that they would never be a threat to him.


    But Putin isn't going to run in next elections, thus noone will be directly challenging him.
    It will be a puppet election regardless of the outcome Putin will be the PM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    He is going the be the next PM the new PM is just a placeholder, Putin never fostered proteges he made sure to cut their wings so that they would never be a threat to him.
    Where did you ever see Medvedev's wings "cut"?

    He failed on his own.

    It will be a puppet election regardless of the outcome Putin will be the PM.
    If that would be what he wanted then it would be easiest to do this flip in 2024, not start changes in 2020.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    If that would be what he wanted then it would be easiest to do this flip in 2024, not start changes in 2020.
    No it makes sense now to make sure the machinations are in place it's not you can snap your fingers and have a puppet system works.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    No it makes sense now to make sure the machinations are in place it's not you can snap your fingers and have a puppet system works.
    It worked like that with Medvedev though.

    What specifically do you think changed now to make him switch tactics if he wants a repeat?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    It worked like that with Medvedev though.

    What specifically do you think changed now to make him switch tactics if he wants a repeat?
    It worked the way he wanted but he thought he didn't have enough power this is a trial period he has plenty of time to make changes to suit him. It's rather sad that you think Russia is basically one man and the country can't be successful without him.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It worked the way he wanted but he thought he didn't have enough power this is a trial period he has plenty of time to make changes to suit him.
    He had more then enough power back then to do any changes to constitution he wanted.

    It was end of his second term and Russian economy was absolutely soaring; he could do whatever he wanted.

    And, as it happened, he wanted to stay within constitutional framework.

    It's rather sad that you think Russia is basically one man and the country can't be successful without him.
    Those changes are exactly the changes needed for Russia to not be as dependent on "one man".

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    He had more then enough power back then to do any changes to constitution he wanted.

    It was end of his second term and Russian economy was absolutely soaring; he could do whatever he wanted.

    And, as it happened, he wanted to stay within constitutional framework.

    Those changes are exactly the changes needed for Russia to not be as dependent on "one man".
    Roflmao those changes are being done so that one man Putin still stays in power, the only way Putin will leave the government is in a casket.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Roflmao those changes are being done so that one man Putin still stays in power, the only way Putin will leave the government is in a casket.
    That's you assumption shaped by your media.

    Reality is a lot more nuanced then that.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    That's you assumption shaped by your media.

    Reality is a lot more nuanced then that.
    You literally have state run media so saying that is ironic like I said earlier time will tell which of us is right there's zero reason from his past to believe Putin will relinquish his iron grip on Russia.

  19. #119
    The Moscow Times: Putin Rejects 'President For Life' Model
    Putin Rejects 'President For Life' Model
    The former KGB officer has been in power for the last 20 years.
    By Andrew Osborn for Reuters 2 hours ago

    Russian President Vladimir Putin said Saturday he did not want Russia to return to the late Soviet-era practice of having lifelong rulers who died in office without a proper succession strategy.

    His comments, made to World War Two veterans in St. Petersburg, came days after he unveiled a sweeping shake-up of the political system which led to the resignation of Dmitry Medvedev as prime minister along with his government.

    Putin, in a surprise move, picked Mikhail Mishustin, the low-profile head of the country’s tax service, as the country's next prime minister. Russians are now waiting to hear which ministers will keep their jobs in a new government.

    Putin's changes, which would amend the constitution to create new centres of power outside the presidency, were widely seen as giving the 67-year-old scope to extend his grip on power once he leaves the presidency in 2024. He has dominated Russian politics, as president or as prime minister, for two decades.

    Critics accuse Putin, a former KGB officer, of plotting to stay on in some capacity after his term ends. They suspect he wants to continue to wield power over the world's largest nation, which is also one of its two leading nuclear powers.

    In his comments Saturday, Putin, who has already said he wants to limit future presidents to two terms in power despite currently serving out his fourth term himself, rejected the idea of Russian presidents for life.

    Asked by a war veteran on the occasion of the 77th anniversary of the lifting of the siege of Leningrad if it was time to abolish term limits for presidents altogether, Putin said: “As regards [presidential] terms for staying in power I understand ... that [concern over this] is linked for many people with worries about societal, state and domestic and external stability.

    “But it would be very worrying to return to the situation we had in the mid-1980s when state leaders stayed in power, one by one, until the end of their days and left office without ensuring the necessary conditions for a transition of power. So thanks, but I think it would be better not to return to that situation.”

    The late Soviet period was characterized by a series of elderly leaders such as Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov and Konstantin Chernenko who all died in office, sparking a scramble by others to grab power.

    Putin’s comments are likely to be seen as reinforcing the idea that he plans to exit the presidency in 2024 as per the current constitution, but are unlikely to appease critics who think he'll find a way to continue wielding influence behind the scenes in a different enhanced role.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    You literally have state run media so saying that is ironic like I said earlier time will tell which of us is right there's zero reason from his past to believe Putin will relinquish his iron grip on Russia.
    What is ironic about it? Your and our media have their own interests that are often quite different from "reporting truth".

    And your media also prefers to paint one-note villains out of opposing leaders.

    I don't read much of our state run media anyway, i'm mostly going by more balanced Western outlets i found over the years.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2020-01-19 at 12:38 PM.

  20. #120
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Just makes it easier to destabilise Russia, with one bullet instead of several
    #boycottchina

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