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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Good, now that you've shown that the best you can come up with is to insult me, I can assume that you have no actual argument.



    No, I am not happy about it. Not because I think the removal of TF is going to have a massive effect on me, but rather because I think another decent system in this game has been sacrificed on the altar of pandering to whiny players who are probably just going to find something else to whine about now.

    You are, of course, welcome to prove me wrong, but I have zero faith that any of the players who are celebrating the demise of TF will remain happy for long.
    It’s interesting that you perceived that as an insult. Heroic players are mediocre. It’s not an insult unless you make it to be yourself. If you have a problem with being mediocre then you should think about doing something about it. Words wont change your status but actions will.

    My argument:

    - Heroic raiders get heroic level gear with no exceptions.
    - Mythic raiders get mythic level gear with no exceptions.

    What is your argument FOR titanforging?

    The only people I feel bad for are the m+ players that push +25 keys. They deserve good gear.

    But Heroic raiders get the gear they deserve: Heroic gear. If you want better gear than that, then you have to push your limit.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-01-17 at 09:13 AM.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    If you dont care about gear then why do you care that titanforging is removed? Checkmate.

    Only blizzard would remove titanforging and replace it with something even worse.
    How presumptuous of you to checkmate without giving me a chance to retort first, arrogant.

    I never said I don't care about gear, I said I view it not as a reward, but as tools I need to get actual rewards. I want to be able to kit out my character to the max, log out and only log in for mythic progress 2 days a week. And when mythic progress is done, I want to log out and come back for the next tier.

    Titanforging makes me feel like I can always do more, can always run those extra M+, that normal or heroic run or, even LFR. I don't like that feeling.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by iosdeveloper View Post
    you serious bro?
    titanforging lost them a lot of subs
    Citation needed.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    You know what those games allow you to do tho? Drop out and come back later with minimal investment to start anew. Which is where WoW failed with this. I briefly considered coming back to the game after Shadowlands was revealed (quit after Uldir) but seeing the amount of neck/essence grind needed, and the desire to play a different class to what I already had from Uldir and I just walked away. The run to catch up prohibits the 'drop in' playstyle that D3 and PoE allow.
    You've been handed a 35 neck for doing a quest since the Battle of Dazar'alor patch. And with improving artifact knowledge going from 35 to 60 would probably take one or two quests each. I was 70 before the patch and I've already added two levels and I haven't even finished the cloak storyline. How much more catchup do you want? Free 70 just for logging in? Add to it you're not getting account wide essences. Ion just had an interview about that and he was quite clear on his thinking.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  5. #265
    The Lightbringer Wries's Avatar
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    I'm with OP 100%

    I will add to it that I thought they made titanforging worse by significantly lowering the odds in BFA compared to Legion. The system worked perfectly in that expansion. Always a chance for an upgrade made for an excellent carrot running lower difficulties not only for helping out others but yourself as well.

    Been raiding mythic in parts of Legion and most of BFA, and I just don't find it fun anymore. The latter halves of every mythic raid are practice of muscle memory 'til you got it, like professional showdancing or something to that effect, and is thus asking for high commitment. I'm not opposed to the setting and think it should exist, but I don't think any of those people are running mythic for ilvl-prestige in the first place. It should drop highest ilvl available of course, but it doesn't have to be the sole source of such gear.

  6. #266
    It's weird for Blizzard to remove replayability like this. So many fewer people running content for upgrades will eat into that bottom line.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by FossilFree View Post
    It's weird for Blizzard to remove replayability like this. So many fewer people running content for upgrades will eat into that bottom line.
    Well maybe they should make the content not suck if they can only bait the masses with rewards as an incentive.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Wries View Post
    It should drop highest ilvl available of course, but it doesn't have to be the sole source of such gear.
    I agree with this. But the other sources should be of similar difficulty. I feel bad for players that push +25 keys and get shit gear. They deserve better because they are great players and do really hard content. No way I say. And fortunately Blizzard say the same now.

    However, this empathy doesn’t apply to heroic raiders who just want better gear for no good reason. They want the chance to get the same level of gear as people who do harder content but without having to do the harder content. It’s about risk and reward. You cannot and should not get good rewards without leaving your comfort zone.

    Heroic raids are very easy content. And easy content should not drop good gear in any scenario.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-01-17 at 09:22 AM.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Ahahaha 25%
    4k at lev 1 minus 25% = 3k = STILL TURBO OP
    14k at lev 3 minus 25% = 10k = HOLY SHIT UBER TURBO MEGA OP

    There you have it, have fun with corruption cause titanforging was bad

    mommy that guy got 2% larger ice cream than me, he doesnt deserve it
    (a rich kid shouting at poor kid in amusement park while having S10 in his pocket and wearing gucci clothes)

    So what the owner of the ice cream parlor does (blizzard) ? Gives 3 big ice creams to poor kid for free. Enjoy.


    I really really really really really hope blizzard slaps even more RNGForging system in shadowlands. I really hope they do.
    It will be a gigantic dickslap in the face to community, and community deserves it.
    Your aware that people who don't like Titanforging can not like Corruption either right? That them wanting less loot RNG doesn't make it their fault when Blizzards adds something even worse.
    That is on Blizzard for making something even worse to replace a bad system. Not the people complaining about the bad system.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  10. #270
    First need to have RNG god so that item drop and then second RNG god to give best titanforging

  11. #271
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    \

    And this is the prime example of mentality issue, you DONT need to get best gear and titanforged was nerfed in BfA, twice in legion, once in BfA.
    if ur aim from raiding is to get 'a' gear not best gear, before u notice u won't even aim to raid
    raid reward is gear, ppl raid in hope to get best gear, not 'some' gear
    and method example is sh8t, of course no one expect to have BiS gear in first week a raid is released, u aim to get it over time, or at least get some of it, in titanforge system u are praying to RNG gods for a 1 in million chance that item drop, and u can also win it rolling against someone alt who is there first time and will roll 100, in vanilla u know it has a 10-25% chance, and u only work on ur dkp, u know a worst case scenario to get best chest is in weeks, not years (both examples u won't get all items BiS before next tier, in vanilla because u compete with 40 and in BFA because chance an item drop in first place is in millions)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Your aware that people who don't like Titanforging can not like Corruption either right? That them wanting less loot RNG doesn't make it their fault when Blizzards adds something even worse.
    That is on Blizzard for making something even worse to replace a bad system. Not the people complaining about the bad system.
    Exactly. They guy seem to think that everyone in here praises the corruption system which is of course not the case. I want both systems out of the game.

    The thing that I’m really happy about now is that if a heroic raider want the best gear in the game they have to either do a +15 key or evolve and go to mythic raiding. Natural progress.

  13. #273
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vipers View Post
    First need to have RNG god so that item drop and then second RNG god to give best titanforging
    average item drop is between 10-25%, i can't believe i say that (probably because titanforging) but that isn't something u need to pray to drop
    the problem is best titanforge proc, in Legion it was 1 in million for an item that has 19% chance drop, that it drop with best procs possible, meaning u need on average kill a boss a million time, to get the best chest possible, now u don't need just pray, u need to sacrifice a million virgin girl to please the rng god to give u chance it drop, then when it finally drops ur guildmate 5th alt who was in run for fun will roll 100 and take it while u who run it on main for the 1502th time will roll -infinity because u know ur luck
    ppl raid to get gear, the best possible, not for any other reason, literally no one aim for hardest raid just to raid, maybe only exception is in Wrath because we actually wanted to see the end of Lich King ourselves because how personal his journey was from wc3
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Again - they're farming gear for the same reason all raiders are. Their gear on first kill tends to be super good too, because they split run heroic many times during week 1.

    Do you think these people go into the world first race with shit gear? They're also spamming M+ constantly outside of raid as well for even more gear.
    Super good? No, their gear on first kill is usually garbage, I saw shadow priest with 385 mythic 5 trinket on their first jaina kill. Their overall ilvl is goddamn low. So much for "bis" gear i guess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It’s interesting that you perceived that as an insult. Heroic players are mediocre. It’s not an insult unless you make it to be yourself. If you have a problem with being mediocre then you should think about doing something about it. Words wont change your status but actions will.

    My argument:

    - Heroic raiders get heroic level gear with no exceptions.
    - Mythic raiders get mythic level gear with no exceptions.

    What is your argument FOR titanforging?

    The only people I feel bad for are the m+ players that push +25 keys. They deserve good gear.

    But Heroic raiders get the gear they deserve: Heroic gear. If you want better gear than that, then you have to push your limit.
    Titanforging gave non-zero replay value to raids and M+. When you are running the same dungeon over and over again, you have slim chance of getting at least anything worthwhile. Or when you are clearing raid for N-th time.

    Nobody should care about what heroic or mythic raiders gets, your argument is pure jealousy which - is not even a proper argument.
    Simply because heroic raider has no chance to outgear mythic raider.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Well maybe they should make the content not suck if they can only bait the masses with rewards as an incentive.
    Maybe you should think before speaking? Who said content (raids/m+) sucks? Nobody.

    Without gear and end-boss mount, raids are have exactly ZERO replay value which means if you could not drop any upgrade from bosses or mount you would clear raid only once, after that, there is no point in going there again. You already cleared it, beat the highest level.

    M+ are bit more fun yet still, aside from pushing arbitrary number (rio score) there is no way for people who run only M+ to progress further as they will hit the gear wall.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    I do the exact same content as someone else, but they get a substantially better piece of the same gear for no reason.
    Who thought this was smart?
    I kill the boss with my other guildies and some get loot and some don't get anything, for no reason. I suppose this is WAY different.

  16. #276
    I think its safe to ignore kaminaris, he is just contrarian at this point.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Your aware that people who don't like Titanforging can not like Corruption either right? That them wanting less loot RNG doesn't make it their fault when Blizzards adds something even worse.
    That is on Blizzard for making something even worse to replace a bad system. Not the people complaining about the bad system.
    If you check my post history, the very first comment (couple of months ago) I made about corruption replacing titanforging was something along the lines of:

    You guys are absolutely insane thinking that corruption is better, anyone who bitched about titanforging will bitch about corruption.

    And no, TF wasn't bad system. The only thing that was bad about it was players who are toxic and jealous. Because they could not understand the math and statistics.
    So I really hope blizz makes even worse system for these people. I stopped caring about gear after I cleared the first mythic raid in this game which was couple of years ago.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Hah, so you are basically complaining about almost every single game made ever. The best weapons/armors being from, or acquired after you've taken down last/extremely tough bosses has been a staple in gaming since it's inception, really.
    Lul, staple in gaming is after you finish last boss, the game end

  19. #279
    Titanforging and wf take away the real profession ladder of needing to beat A to get to B, B to C, etc. now it’s all rng and diablo 3 like luck

    It’s a game designed for people who didn’t like the original game in some ways

    I’d prefer having to rely on a social structure to succeed and the gear have relevance rather than solo retail wow experience and everyone being treated as equals. No one is equal in wow, you should be what you earn and nothing more

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    Because it shouldn't feel bad to get a baseline mythic item.

    Titanforging was one of the worst things Blizzard ever did to this game.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly. I miss the good ol days when you only had 1 raid difficulty and could walk in knowing that the loot that dropped from boss X would have stats Y. I also miss Master looter, Raids were great and I think that Wrath early on had it right with Activated Hardmodes The Sarth 3 Drakes, and then Ulduar had it perfect IMO not all bosses need hard modes, but the ones that do are unique and challenging.

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