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  1. #61
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Wow..patch is one day out and it already killed alts for the next 250 or so days. Awesome.

    I only did the Uldum part so far and it wasn't more tedious or anything than getting your first artifact in Legion. But I guess the artifact chains also killed alts (and off speccs), because you could really show us how much you care about your alts by deciding investing 15 mins is too much of your precious time.

    Now..I am sure i won't be looking forward to doing this on alt 5-10...but coming here after ONE day and bitching how it already killed alts is just ridiculous.

    And ofc your solution to everything is "I should be able to skip it" - well..where does the skipping stop? Your main already did every dungeon in every mythic season 10 times, so your alt should just get the gear in the mail? See...I can be funny, too.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Wow..patch is one day out and it already killed alts for the next 250 or so days.
    Well - no, just killed alts for raiding for the rest of the patch.

    The issue is that you can't catch up on this one.. there is no AK for cloak level etc etc. So you don't get to bring a new alt into a raid in 2 months time. The cloak's corruption/sanity resist doesn't have an equivalent in pre 8.3 stuff. So what if your neck was a few item levels too low, or you didn't have the right essence or azerite power. That just stunted your dps/healing.

    The cloak is going to be the MC fire resist gear for the raid apparently....

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    The cloak is going to be the MC fire resist gear for the raid apparently....
    You mean, not required at all to raid then? Because the 2019 raiders definitely didn't need fire resist gear to clean MC.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    You mean, not required at all to raid then?
    No - I mean like MC and Onyxia etc in Vanilla, not Classic.

    Status update : 3 hour mark, skipped all cinematic and instances that I could - I'm just about to do the Blackwing part to get the cloak.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  5. #65
    Blizzard is committed to tedium for whatever reason. The questline is interesting the first time, but alts make it hell. Blizz really don't want you playing alts, or maybe they think grinding is something people like. Based on MMO Champ replies, seems like people really do like doing the same story line over and over

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Its tedious, its long, its awfully buggy currently.
    Essences alone along with Nazjatar and Mechagon farm and rep farm were enough obstacles to face while gearing alts.
    8.3. quest line is like a final shot in the head.

    Its an essential fix to make it skippable on alts for the most part.
    Good, keep your shitty alts that you don't want to put any effort in to away from the game so that the rest of us can play it with people who actually devote some time to their characters instead!

  7. #67
    I am quite sure Essences were far more effective at killing alts than this quest line.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am quite sure Essences were far more effective at killing alts than this quest line.
    Nah ... the intro quests for 8.2 were around 30 minutes long.

    The intro quests for 8.3 - 4+ hours long.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - no, just killed alts for raiding for the rest of the patch.

    The issue is that you can't catch up on this one.. there is no AK for cloak level etc etc. So you don't get to bring a new alt into a raid in 2 months time. The cloak's corruption/sanity resist doesn't have an equivalent in pre 8.3 stuff. So what if your neck was a few item levels too low, or you didn't have the right essence or azerite power. That just stunted your dps/healing.

    The cloak is going to be the MC fire resist gear for the raid apparently....
    Is it only negative that people who have spent more time (and over a longer period) have a significant advantage over those just stepping in?
    I realize people feel differently about this, but personally I think that time is a very valuable currency in an MMO if it's done right, and WoW appears to have lost its way in this regard. I firmly believe that those who started earlier and put in more time (a combination of both) should have an advantage, and that you should only be able to catch up to some extent with alts. Do you disagree?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Is it only negative that people who have spent more time (and over a longer period) have a significant advantage over those just stepping in?
    This is different to the mechanics pre 8.3 mechanics had way shorter intro quests, with long play quests to improve the character.

    Your cloak is the 'neck' piece of 8.3 ... you don't get it until you've done a VERY long intro quest line.

    This isn't about being optimal quickly, it is about being able to participate quickly.

    In 8.2, you got two level 1 essences and unlocked the essence system in under 30 minutes. From that point on your game play loop was unlocked and ready for participation.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  11. #71
    Speaking of, where in the whole expansion questline do I need to be on my Alts before I can access any of this patches content?
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  12. #72
    Pit Lord Valysar's Avatar
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    Indeed this questline is not really alt friendly... And, if I have not missed anything, we can only skip 2 quests... (first HoO scenario and the Nalaksha one)

  13. #73
    Getting the "Legendary" cloak (using "s because theres nothing legendary about it lol) is not the issue AT ALL.

    GETTING THE DAMN ESSENCES, then grinding all the reps, obtaining all required currencies, farming M+, farming PVP... and all that for MULTIPLE weeks in order to get rank 3 essence JUST SO YOU COULD COMPETE WITH OTHER CHARACTERS is WRONG!

    And it killed ANY desire for me to play any alt for sure.

    Like, I want to casually play arena @ 2-2.2k cr/mmr on my alts? Nope. Getting lucky with gear is just the beginning. You have to grind EVERYTHING all over again just so you could use ABILITIES (and not to have powerful stats).

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Valysar View Post
    Indeed this questline is not really alt friendly... And, if I have not missed anything, we can only skip 2 quests... (first HoO scenario and the Nalaksha one)
    Just finished on my alt:

    Start : 5pm-7pm local time (2hrs)
    Dinner : 7pm-7:45pm
    Finish : 7:45pm - 9:30pm (1hr45min)

    Total : 3 hours 45 minutes That's skipping both skippable instances, skipping cinematics, skipping WQs and side quests, just doing the one horrific and normal vision required for the quest line. iLvl 440 Balance Druid alt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Palapop View Post
    Getting the "Legendary" cloak (using "s because theres nothing legendary about it lol) is not the issue AT ALL.

    GETTING THE DAMN ESSENCES,
    You have it the wrong way around - the essences system is unlocked within no time, the cloak system takes almost 4 hours per alt.

    After that - both systems required game play to unlock/improve/advance.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    This is different to the mechanics pre 8.3 mechanics had way shorter intro quests, with long play quests to improve the character.

    Your cloak is the 'neck' piece of 8.3 ... you don't get it until you've done a VERY long intro quest line.

    This isn't about being optimal quickly, it is about being able to participate quickly.

    In 8.2, you got two level 1 essences and unlocked the essence system in under 30 minutes. From that point on your game play loop was unlocked and ready for participation.
    I literally just quoted you on the "catch up" part, that has nothing to do with the intro quest. A one time quest that takes a few hours is not something that hinders alt participation what so ever. Genuinely, if you can't spend 2-4 hours on an alt before you step in to raids that alt doesn't belong in a raid in the first place. Not even in a Mythic dungeon to be honest.

  16. #76
    Damn, you actually have to play alts?

    Why did i make them in the first place????? I don't want to have to play my alts!

  17. #77
    Legendary!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    This game won't be good again until they get rid of Ion. His lack of vision and horrible game design are killing WoW.
    Well he is doing well creating the whole game by himself, creating all the art and making all the music, doing all the dungeon and raid encounters.. Who knew the whole game was created by one person, I am surprised he has any time for anything else.. /sarc

  18. #78
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - no, just killed alts for raiding for the rest of the patch.

    The issue is that you can't catch up on this one.. there is no AK for cloak level etc etc. So you don't get to bring a new alt into a raid in 2 months time. The cloak's corruption/sanity resist doesn't have an equivalent in pre 8.3 stuff. So what if your neck was a few item levels too low, or you didn't have the right essence or azerite power. That just stunted your dps/healing.

    The cloak is going to be the MC fire resist gear for the raid apparently....
    I suppose with the world first race, we will see how people actually do have alts to test mechanics.

    Now...sure, those are maniacs...but on the other hand: If every one else has this problem with catching up alts...then certain you can raid with a group of catch up altoholics.

    Unless ofc your goal is to bring your alts into the latest content so they can be as geared as your main.

    Which opens up the debate of what is a main, what is an alt. Maybe I am more in the "I don't care" camp, because ever since Classic and in TBC I just could never bring an alt (gear / attunements). WotLK actually was the greatest time. my main raided progressively and my alts were in 10 man normal groups or did Naxx. At no point did I expect my alts to ever be able to enter the progression raid.

    Sure, there were times when we lost important members and somebody geared an alt to take the role - but then the raid helped (and if sometimes means losing painful weeks of progression)

    So...I guess most of all I am curious what exactly y'all are doing on your alts and expecting them to be able to do?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    This game won't be good again until they get rid of Ion. His lack of vision and horrible game design are killing WoW.
    Seeing that you joined in 2012, you must be aware that the very same thing was regularely said about Ghostcrawler. Seeing I joined here in 2008 (and was a lurker before), I can tell you the same thing was said about the lead devs before Ion and GC.

    "Blizzard - killing the game since 2005 thanks to their "lack of vision and horrible game design" - sincerely your forum posters ^^

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post

    Status update : 3 hour mark, skipped all cinematic and instances that I could - I'm just about to do the Blackwing part to get the cloak.
    I'm not sure what you are doing but I did it on my main in just over 2 hours last night (got home from work at 9pm and was in bed for 1115) I got upto the first mini vision that you had to close four portals.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by IlikeDemonHunters View Post
    I'm not sure what you are doing
    The cloak quest line - timing from quest line start to questline end, nothing else in between, skipped both instances I could and all cinematics - (apart from dinner break as designated).... as fast as possible.

    As before - the Uldum assault is the breaker - everything else is 10-15 minutes a pop, but that assault takes ages looking for stuff to kill.

    Not everyone exposed to the new Corona Virus(SARS-CoV-2) will catch it, not everyone who catches it will develop the disease (COVID-19), not everyone who develops the disease will get sick, a small percentage of those who get sick will be very ill, and a small percentage of those who get very ill will die.

    Don't panic.

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