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  1. #1

    Wrong Game Philosophy - Still OP classes...

    (lets clarify that im a 2.2k iO & MultiClass Multi Glad player - since Cata - so yes, I have an idea of what im talking about).

    And once 8.3 did hit, I came back on retail and tried it... it was the worst feeling ever. The Major contents in game today are M+, Arena / pvp, Raids. I find absurd how still the game is not balanced and ALL classes are not sort of equal... equal in terms of not being ridiculous once you are Qing for a M+ without being a TOP class who does by defoult x2 more DPS than you and its not 2 times more useful... I had this feeling once I logged again my hunter and realised it was HORRIBLE on M+, this made me think that first of all I won't bother playing retail again, and secondly that for sure I won't make a new class just because mine sucks for the content I want to play.

    I'm writing this hoping that someone from blizzard will bother reading this, and understanding the real frustration that its really leading me and probably a huge % of players to don't bother with wow, just waiting for a patch where your class its not totally a joke compared to the TOP ones for the type of content you like the most. Keep in mind, I wouldn't mind to even reroll, IF making a top geared character to compete, wouldn't force me to lose my entire life.

    So the real solutions would be:
    1. Put a real focus on making SURE ALL classes of every talent are EQUAL for specific contents. PVP and PVE % are separated, so it would be extremely easy to balance. You don't need a genius to understand how M+ for example its FULL of Rogues & DH on the top ladder. Use your brain and you will understand this is just a total depression for all other classes / players.

    2. Stop thinking people are willing to reroll and reroll until the class won't be good anymore. Simply by making all classes equal, you will obtain players who are x10 times more willing to put effort and enjoy the game.

    For the people who will say that this post its not sensed because obviously there are always people on this forum who love to simply point fingers and still provide 0 concrete solutions other than flaming others, I want to remember them, that talking here, there is a guy who cares about this game being decent enough to get people like me keep playing it. We all invested an incredible amount of time in WoW and I would like it to AT LEAST be balanced and stop with this no sense that destroy all my willingness to keep giving wow a try.

    -----------
    EDIT: CLARIFICATIONS
    -----------

    after reading some answers I've got, lets clarify:

    1. Obviously I don't mean that hunter does 50% DPS compared to other classes... lets be more precise --> 30% ISH overall, that is one of the key elements why hunter like MANY OTHER CLASSES can't enjoy the game.

    2. If you enjoy the game like this, don't bother commenting, go play. Im talking for the people that obviously don't feel in the same way as you do. I'm happy for you, if you like the game to be unbalanced and not being able to compete at high levels just doing the "best as you can" with your class.

    3. IO score, gives an idea of what lvl you did compete in the game on the M+ content. Its better than nothing. Generally talking, its very efficient. All the people that say that it is useless, are just players who don't know what they are talking about, or who are mad because they can't get it high enough for the M+ lvl they want to join. Don't complain the score, argue about the people that don't understand that a guy with 2k iO CAN prove to be worth more. It has nothing to do with the score itself, it has to do with the mentality of the PLAYERS who think that a 2k player is worst than a guy with 2100.

    4. Seems most of the people didn't get the point of my post, but its normal, as I said I expected it I'm one of the players that points out the fact, it's very unfair to set for a specific content like M+ some classes FAR above everyone else. It makes TONS of people to lose all the motivation to keep playing. It affects the majority of the players when they try to do QUE and ENJOY the game. On top of that, WHY progressing when your class will be considered too crap to compete at high lvl content? My points are VERY solid and easy to understand, if you don't, no wonders why this game is at this stage. We are not playing LOL where you must play another 20-50h to master another champion... we are talking about a game where you MUST invest HUNDREDS of hours to GEAR and lvl up. Thats why the balance on such a game its vital. In LOL I can simply change champ and deal with it (they must balance 120+ heroes...)
    Last edited by bakibuki; 2020-01-16 at 10:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by bakibuki View Post
    So the real solutions would be:
    1. Put a real focus on making SURE ALL classes of every talent are EQUAL for specific contents. PVP and PVE % are separated, so it would be extremely easy to balance.
    ...
    For the people who will say that this post its not sensed because obviously there are always people on this forum who love to simply point fingers and still provide 0 concrete solutions other than flaming others
    I don't want to be one of those guys pointing fingers but I feel like making every spec equal is easier said than done.
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bakibuki View Post
    Qing for a M+ without being a TOP class who does by defoult x2 more DPS than you and its not 2 times more useful...
    Yea sure, that's exactly the case and you're pulling shit out of ass. Not like we also play the game. We just trust what you say.

    There are some classes better than others but the difference is nowhere near what you claim.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakibuki View Post
    ... equal in terms of not being ridiculous once you are Qing for a M+ without being a TOP class who does by defoult x2 more DPS than you and its not 2 times more useful... I had this feeling once I logged again my hunter and realised it was HORRIBLE
    If you think hunter isnt viable - and people do 2x more damage than you, then you ´re doing something really, really wrong.
    Hunter isnt S-Tier like DH - but hunters can still outdps the majority of specs ingame in M+.

  5. #5
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    People using IO as a measurement of skills makes me laugh. IO is a measurement of how much free time you´ve got lol.

    Can´t wait for that thing to dissapear... but it is sadly true that it does have a use to filter out potential screw ups.

  6. #6
    Classes never were, nor will they ever be "Equal".

    I have a feeling that if it was your class melting everything then we would not have seen this post.

  7. #7
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakibuki View Post
    (lets clarify that im a 2.2k iO & MultiClass Multi Glad player - since Cata - so yes, I have an idea of what im talking about).

    Skip.
    No offense, but 2.2k this or Gladiator/etc doesn't make you a game designer or even a person that understands game design.

    And that's proven by statements like "it would be extremely easy to balance" - if WoW was 'extremely easy' to balance WoW, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The only possible way to make all classes equally useful/powerful in all situations is homogenization and Blizz has tried to move away from that.

    We are never going to arrive at a place where WoW (or any game like it) is perfectly balanced. With this many classes, specs, talents, etc it simply isn't possible. So pick the class you enjoy and focus on being the best at it, rather than pounce on whatever the current FOTM is and then angrily rerolling when said FOTM gets nerfed.

    The fact that practically every reply in this topic is dismantling your post should tell you something.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2020-01-16 at 09:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bakibuki View Post

    1. Put a real focus on making SURE ALL classes of every talent are EQUAL for specific contents. PVP and PVE % are separated, so it would be extremely easy to balance. You don't need a genius to understand how M+ for example its FULL of Rogues & DH on the top ladder. Use your brain and you will understand this is just a total depression for all other classes / players.
    Your whole post reeks of PvE lack of knowledge, and particularly burst phases.

    Hunter is considered well rounded, a good hunter can do decent DPS on every single pack because thats how hunter DPS windows work, and at the same time, not be shit at single target.

    Or you probably saw an Eye Beam-->Focused Azerite Beam combo, doing 150k DPS for 5 seconds on either an irrelevant low M+, or irrelevant DPS at a +15-20, depending what you did and you are complaining.

    Yes, there are utterly retarded easy-mode situations with DH specifically, that do the same and maybe slightly better, but by default the game doesnt work like that.

    Also, Blizzard doesnt balance around community and tryharding +25s, all classes can do the achievement required content in the hands of a half-arsed player, which is where the balance is focused.

    Figure out what you want to complain about.

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunxsera View Post
    If you think hunter isnt viable - and people do 2x more damage than you, then you ´re doing something really, really wrong.
    Hunter isnt S-Tier like DH - but hunters can still outdps the majority of specs ingame in M+.
    Indeed. I absolutely destroy stuff on my hunter in M+/raids.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Indeed. I absolutely destroy stuff on my hunter in M+/raids.
    Same ... Hunter is fine.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    People using IO as a measurement of skills makes me laugh. IO is a measurement of how much free time you´ve got lol.

    Can´t wait for that thing to dissapear... but it is sadly true that it does have a use to filter out potential screw ups.
    I have an io.score of 1650 pts, which is not very high but decent and I only do 1/2 m + per week and like me many other people in my guild do this way .. so I would say that your statement is a little wrong .

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    I don't want to be one of those guys pointing fingers but I feel like making every spec equal is easier said than done.
    i would say unless you make all classes and their abilities exactly the same with only difference being visual its impossible to balance them perfectly

  13. #13
    The problem isn't classes in general.
    The the azerite gear rng system in general is a bad system.
    Look at how legendaries was in legion.
    If you were unlucky you would be behind those that were lucky.
    Just pray to rng gods

    So now let's watch everyone cry about corruption + azerite rng for the next few month's

  14. #14
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i would say unless you make all classes and their abilities exactly the same with only difference being visual its impossible to balance them perfectly
    Exactly.

    /10

  15. #15
    Classes disbalance since 2004 till day WoW will die. Classes were never been balanced. There is always some class or spec that is OP. They doin this all the time. Major patcho goin live and some get boost some get kick. For me its ok. Or even more its good for game. U cant do all shit same all the time. Game needs to flow up n down. Rollercoaster is fun because is goin up n down. Regular train is just boring :P tbh iO is shit. Ilvl killed some part of RP in this game forever.
    Last edited by czarek; 2020-01-16 at 11:25 AM.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
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    I really facepalm at how brain washed people have become over their and others 'IO' score as if it is some sort of mark of skill level.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    i would say unless you make all classes and their abilities exactly the same with only difference being visual its impossible to balance them perfectly
    Certainly couldn't have stuff like azerite traits
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    I don't want to be one of those guys pointing fingers but I feel like making every spec equal is easier said than done.
    The Problem is not to make them Equal, but to make them Equal, but still different enough.

    But with the wording of the OP it might actually be Equal Equal, why not just remove all Classes Except 4, Tank, Heal, RDD, MDD
    To be Honest though, I dont see a Performance Gap of "More then double"

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...s/23#boss=2304 That looks rather "Equal" to me.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/20 And here, apart from the absolute Top, also everything is rather balanced.

    I dont really see a problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Certainly couldn't have stuff like azerite traits
    Well, you could Simulate the Class, and have its "Baseline" DMG, and then Scale it to the "Average" DMG, so its pointless what you skill/use/equip you will always do the same Damage as others, as long as you play your Class as the Simulation/Dev decidet. :P

  19. #19
    after reading some answers I've got, lets clarify:

    1. Obviously I don't mean that hunter does 50% DPS compared to other classes... lets be more precise --> 30% ISH overall, that is one of the key elements why hunter like MANY OTHER CLASSES can't enjoy the game.

    2. If you enjoy the game like this, don't bother commenting, go play. Im talking for the people that obviously don't feel in the same way as you do. I'm happy for you, if you like the game to be unbalanced and not being able to compete at high levels just doing the "best as you can" with your class.

    3. IO score, gives an idea of what lvl you did compete in the game on the M+ content. Its better than nothing. Generally talking, its very efficient. All the people that say that it is useless, are just players who don't know what they are talking about, or who are mad because they can't get it high enough for the M+ lvl they want to join. Don't complain the score, argue about the people that don't understand that a guy with 2k iO CAN prove to be worth more. It has nothing to do with the score itself, it has to do with the mentality of the PLAYERS who think that a 2k player is worst than a guy with 2100.

    4. Seems most of the people didn't get the point of my post, but its normal, as I said I expected it I'm one of the players that points out the fact, it's very unfair to set for a specific content like M+ some classes FAR above everyone else. It makes TONS of people to lose all the motivation to keep playing. It affects the majority of the players when they try to do QUE and ENJOY the game. On top of that, WHY progressing when your class will be considered too crap to compete at high lvl content? My points are VERY solid and easy to understand, if you don't, no wonders why this game is at this stage. We are not playing LOL where you must play another 20-50h to master another champion... we are talking about a game where you MUST invest HUNDREDS of hours to GEAR and lvl up. Thats why the balance on such a game its vital. In LOL I can simply change champ and deal with it (they must balance 120+ heroes...)

  20. #20
    It's hilarious that of all the classes they could nerf into oblivion Blizzard chose shadow priests, because they were doing well in two raid encounters.
    Last edited by Vinzora; 2020-01-16 at 10:19 AM.

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