What alliances did Valeera form across the lines? She worked with the Horde when Anduin commanded her to. Because she's sworn to House Wrynn.
Why would we even need a speaker of Azeroth after BfA?
And Jaina's forces reignited the faction war at the start of the Cataclysm by invading the Barrens.
And she's not only serving as Anduin's, she outright swore fealty to House Wrynn.
Except Valeera has nothing to do with anything you said. Contrary to Trassk's claims she has no actual connections in the Horde and on top of that is a sworn servant of the ruling dynasty of the Alliance. She's as Alliance as it can get.
Except Valeera by her own admission has no ties to the Horde. While she did swear fealty to Varian and his house in the comics, making her have ties to the Alliance. Valeera isn't the example you guys think she is.
She most certainly is subservient to the Alliance. Kinda hard not to be when you're a sworn servant of the Wrynns.
Garrosh ordered no such thing because at no point in his life did he give a damn about human civilians.
The Legion pre-event simply reused the NPCs that were already there. It's an example of Blizzard not caring to check the story of a zone where they are adding some new stuff. Besides, I doubt there was a solid involvement from the story department in that part of the pre-event. All the story bits of the invasions were just the random text characters yelled out every now and then.
At no point did Sylvanas care about any of the things you talked about here. There was no opportunity to assassinate Arthas as he had a swarm of undead around him at all times and the Farstriders barely slowed the Scourge down.
Just because Kael changed their name doesn't magically make them not their people. Lor'themar was her second in command.
We also know he did that just to the Forsaken would bleed to death in the campaign.
@mickybrighteyes did not say the Purge happened before Theramore. Re-read their post. Also, it's almost as if Sylvanas also had an origin story and that it also included a fall of her nation in a violent way. You pointing those things out only in regards to Jaina isn't an argument.
She didn't win. Saurfang fucked up the prerequisites for the victory that he well knew about as he himself drafted the plans for the campaign. Which he himself admitted and vowed to deal with himself when Nathanos pointed it out to him.
That canon Arthas book says absolutely nothing about that girl being innocent or even a farmer. For all you know she could have been a Scarlet Crusade zealot because, you know, that was the main human population the Forsaken had access too. Or even the Queen of England for that matter. Just because you invoke the canon status of the book doesn't mean you can then make whatever you want up. It means the opposite for that matter.
Yeah, that difference is people stopping Jaina. Not that there was any committed mass murder by Sylvanas in the time frame @mickybrighteyes was actually talking about.
The highground you put yourself on here with your remarks how @mickybrighteyes shouldn't even reply to you because of how deeply flawed their argument is would be more warranted if you, you known, didn't straw-man the hell out of them. They said nothing whatsoever about Sylvanas being a victim or not being a monster. For Christ's sake, before you wrote this post they already clarified that their position as a whole is not even pro-Sylvanas but anti-Jaina, making your claims here not only wrong but utterly irrelevant to what they were actually talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
Gaming and WoW stuff
I am. But that's all the more reason not to replace him with someone who'll quickly become as annoying if they started spouting the same "but what about muh Azeroth" nonsense all the time (which they would if they became the speaker of Azeroth and got the quick dial to its world soul that comes with the position).
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
Gaming and WoW stuff
She's unaffiliated enough that both factions trust her as a courier.
Edit for clarity: Not to say she's unaffiliated entirely. She's more like the player in that the Horde knows she's trustworthy enough to deal with when needed (such as to deliver a message to the Alliance) and can trust she won't lie about it or assassinate them when they meet with her. She is, at MOST, separated from the Alliance by one degree (she serves the Wrynns and thus the Alliance).
Last edited by Thage; 2020-01-19 at 06:50 PM.
Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!
I saw Valeera standing there and I have an opinion regarding the OP. When I saw her...
...err what were we talking about again?
Did you just respond to the entire board in this post? Frankly I didn't read that much into their post, but I read enough. "Jaina is worse than Sylvanas" and then a post to defend that claim when they are utterly rebuked well past a defensible position... they can claim whatever they want, but only a fanatic would keep arguing at that point.
PS: I don't have any interest in "arguing" with fanatics. And I remember what it was like the last time we had a discussion. So this is a hard pass from me.
Asking for anyone who's paying attention to the train wreck of 8.3, do we end up pulling the sword out/healing the planet? Or just Dragon Ball beaming N'Zoth to powder and ignoring the hell out of the sword?Why would we even need a speaker of Azeroth after BfA?
I would think we'd need a speaker depending on the answer, as well as for the writers to continue to give Azeroth's opinions on the fleas living on her.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
I think it represents perfectly how the storytelling exists in relation to both playable factions.
I think what we all really want to know, is where has Med'an been this whole time?
Everyone knows it NOW, because after the peace there is no real reason to hide it, or so they think probably, I personally would very much like someone that keeps on eye on the Horde to warn us of their next genocidal warchief.
Though you have to realize, just because she has a new model in game does not mean she looks different for the people of Azeroth. She still looks to other Blood Elves like a Blood Elf (glowing green eyes pretty much a trait they all had before the Sunwell got fixed, thanks to the Fel), very much like Jaina still looks like a normal human woman to the people in Stormwind, despite her model being years ahead of the normal human model.
Valeera does wear some rather extravagant cloth, but in the Blood Elf society that is not soo special. Compare it to what the Nightborn regularly wear and it feels downright modest.
As has been stated many times already. The faction war restarted the moment Garrosh decided that Kalimdor is pure Horde territory. Jaina reacted to the massive threat he presented. Everyone knew that after he was done with the Night Elves he would turn to Theramore.
And I quote from the Horde's Blood Oath which has been used by you and others many times over to call Saurfang and Baine traitors:
"I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command."
Strangely it does not anywhere state that "I do only what my Warchief says if I like it." So if Garrosh decided to waste the Forsaken on this, that is his right and disobeying and secretly scheming to subvert his will is the act of a traitor. Strangely though Sylvanas is not getting remotely as much flak for this as Baine did.
Besides, Garrosh uses them because they are already dead, do not feel pain and are very hard to kill (outside of game mechanics), plus their pure appearance as rotting corpses can help break the spirit of the Gilneans, especially after the whole Lich King time. It's a very sound choice.
In a siege if you managed to breach the wall you will have to charge it at some point, if starving out the besieged is not an option your boss wants to take, you have to get past the walls somehow. This always costs a lot of lifes.
Oh she won the war quite handily. The Nelfs were beaten, Darkshore hers, the tree and Darnassus being in her hand. She had won a nice piece of lush territory for the Horde (only to blight and destroy it later, but hey) and effectively removed the Alliance from Kalimdor.
That is already more then Garrosh ever managed. In a next step she could have taken the people in the tree hostage and traded them favourably to the Alliance for other consessions. We both know Anduin does not have it in him to let her execute these innocents, so he would have caved on any demand. That was what a smart winner would have done.
That her psychopathic obsession with killing hope did not allow her to call this a victory without murdering a big part of the Nightelf population, is just that, an obsession born from her need to drag everyone to her own level of hopelessness.
No, the difference is that Jaina allowed herself to be stopped, when no one had the power to stop her by force alone. If someone is completely unwaveringly convinced of doing something horrible, you can just as well talk to a wall, you won't stop them with words, but Jaina was not, deep down she knew she was wrong and Thrall and Kalec allowed her the moment of clarity to realize this.
As Kalec tells her, it is the same thing that happened with Arthas in front of Stratholme. He was unwaveringly convinced to purge the city and neither Uther nor Jaina's words could reach him, because of that. Jaina in the same situation chose not to go down that path.
This is the big difference between Jaina and Sylvanas:
Jaina actually cares about the lives of people (even her enemies), she doesn't want to kill anyone, she does not kill for the fun of it, but only when she is forced to and many times over the Horde has done exactly that.
Sylvanas on the other hand cares for nothing and no one except herself and murders without a shred of remorse, she believes her own fate gives her the right to be this way, because she is cursed and all that. Booo Hoooo.
Both have been through tragedies, but one chose to not be dragged down by it, while the other wallows in it and makes every effort to drag down everyone else.
her 'unique' aspects are all stuff she can easily change, she can wear a rug and comb her hair different, done, she looks like average belf
and no i'm not joking, i even used in-game reference for that, each race can't distinguish (easily at least) between ppl from other races
The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
Thrall
http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.