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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    You know whats comparable to vanilla naxx? wotlk naxx
    I’m presuming you got banned for that ridiculous statement. Lol

    Vanilla naxx isn’t comparable to wotlk easy mode 4 different raid sizes naxx

    To clear naxx in wotlk, you had to be logged in and at least afk in the entrance. It was so easy they actually had achievements for (no one dying)

    Compare to vanilla naxx which is the cream of the crop. A real difficulty unless wotlk. And to get there, you have to earn it. You can’t just show up patch day, you have to climb that mountain to get to naxx

    Sure, it’s elitist but it’s a lot better of a system

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I’m presuming you got banned for that ridiculous statement. Lol

    Vanilla naxx isn’t comparable to wotlk easy mode 4 different raid sizes naxx

    To clear naxx in wotlk, you had to be logged in and at least afk in the entrance. It was so easy they actually had achievements for (no one dying)

    Compare to vanilla naxx which is the cream of the crop. A real difficulty unless wotlk. And to get there, you have to earn it. You can’t just show up patch day, you have to climb that mountain to get to naxx

    Sure, it’s elitist but it’s a lot better of a system
    You're going to get slated for saying that because people that have been clearing Naxx for 10 years will easily clear Naxx on Classic in a matter of hours.

    If you're in a guild where the majority haven't done Naxx, good chance you won't even clear it week one. But, if you come from a private server, it should be easily done.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    You're going to get slated for saying that because people that have been clearing Naxx for 10 years will easily clear Naxx on Classic in a matter of hours.

    If you're in a guild where the majority haven't done Naxx, good chance you won't even clear it week one. But, if you come from a private server, it should be easily done.
    Regardless of how quickly private servers or the ultra elite clear it, there’s no valid comparison to wotlk naxx other than the setting

    Difficulty wise, wotlk naxx has nothing comparable to vanilla naxx. One is the easiest entry level raid in wow history, and the other is the hardest raid to ever get to in wow history

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarator8 View Post
    I agree that there're more fun things to do than spamming Frostbolt, but if my only choice was between spamming Frostbolt and juggling 5+ different damaging skills on different short cooldowns with procs etc., I'd much rather spam Frostbolt all day.

    Why, you may wonder? Because I've always been of the opinion that the difficulty of raiding should come from bosses, not from playing your own class. Classes shouldn't be braindead easy, IMO, but should still be easy and intuitive enough that one can pick them up and play with them without having to spend days and weeks finetuning them (at least in regards to the actual gameplay, not stuff like how to gear them up etc.).

    For me, the sweet spot would be something like Destruction Warlock in WotLK. You have a DoT (Immolate, 15 sec), two short CD spells (Conflagrate on 10 sec CD and Chaos Bolt on 12 sec CD), and a filler spell (Incinerate). That's it. Yet, even back in WotLK, certain specs like Affliction warlock, Enhancement shaman etc. went WAY beyond that, to the point I felt burned out by those classes more than by ICC heroic bosses.

    In this context, even spamming Frostbolt can look like an attractive option.

    I agree that the difficulty should come from the boss and not fiddling with a rotation. I cant think of any in WoW (in the past or present) that are overly complicated though. FF14 was really bad with that shit for a while but its gotten better.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don’t get why people feel the need to make this kind of thread. Ok, so you don’t like to play Classic and so what? What are you trying to achieve by making a thread about that?
    this x 100. only useful reply.

  6. #226
    Its the simplicity off classic that make me like it.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don’t get why people feel the need to make this kind of thread. Ok, so you don’t like to play Classic and so what? What are you trying to achieve by making a thread about that?
    This says it all.

    I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc. Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    This says it all.

    I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc. Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"
    It’s just a specific circle, but I get what you mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox2042 View Post
    Ahh, WoW, the game that gives cosplayers a reason to dress up like medieval fantasy hookers.

  9. #229
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    Nice blog post.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

    Eugenik - Tchondrius

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Baracleez View Post
    I had to comment on this, because I've seen it several times and it makes me lol every time. Usually I just sit back and watch these "my opinion is right and yours is wrong" fights with my Netflix and popcorn, but every once in a while someone chimes in with an opinion that's "objectively true, not a matter of opinion in any way." Dude. You literally said, "better." What makes something better is a matter of opinion, especially in this case.

    Yes, there are more races and classes. That's a fact.

    That more races and classes is better is an opinion. For instance, it's my opinion that more races and classes is a lot of the problem with retail wow. 1) I wish they wouldn't spend dev time on it and would spend dev time on raids and quests rather than a race i will never play, no matter how good the racials are.
    This just in, WoW has multiple teams that all do different things. You're not getting fewer raids and quests because the art team designed a new playable race.
    -- Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer. - Powerogue 2019

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    This just in, WoW has multiple teams that all do different things. You're not getting fewer raids and quests because the art team designed a new playable race.
    This just in - development teams have budgets. Those funds are distributed between different groups within that team. Instead of hiring people to design store mounts, they could be hiring more people for the raid teams. See, thats the issue when you take the multi million dollar corporations PR lines and use them in a normal setting - people point out how silly they are.

    If your local police department, which is made up of multiple teams, had a 400 person team dedicated to investigating garden gnome thefts, and that team was 60% of the total police force, i think you would say "hey, this isnt ideal" and when they turn around and say "this gnome division has no impact on the murder team, they are different teams" you would laugh and their face and point out the ridiculousness of the statement. But for some weird reason, when blizzard say it, you gobble it up.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This just in - development teams have budgets. Those funds are distributed between different groups within that team. Instead of hiring people to design store mounts, they could be hiring more people for the raid teams. See, thats the issue when you take the multi million dollar corporations PR lines and use them in a normal setting - people point out how silly they are.

    If your local police department, which is made up of multiple teams, had a 400 person team dedicated to investigating garden gnome thefts, and that team was 60% of the total police force, i think you would say "hey, this isnt ideal" and when they turn around and say "this gnome division has no impact on the murder team, they are different teams" you would laugh and their face and point out the ridiculousness of the statement. But for some weird reason, when blizzard say it, you gobble it up.
    This is not how finances work.

    In fact, it's the exact opposite. They do not "hire" new people to design store mounts. You would need to be extremely out of touch with reality to think that.
    They give that job to currently existing designers so they have something to do for their salary that they can turn into profits.
    Else, they could just literally fire the artist cuz he has no "actual job" to do.

    A police department does not work like that in real life either.

    If you have zero grasp about financing why the fuck are you trying the make a point out of it?
    Your understanding is the definiton of surface level.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    This is not how finances work.

    In fact, it's the exact opposite. They do not "hire" new people to design store mounts. You would need to be extremely out of touch with reality to think that.
    They give that job to currently existing designers so they have something to do for their salary that they can turn into profits.
    Else, they could just literally fire the artist cuz he has no "actual job" to do.

    A police department does not work like that in real life either.

    If you have zero grasp about financing why the fuck are you trying the make a point out of it?
    Your understanding is the definiton of surface level.
    This is just a really sloppy attempt at discrediting what i said without providing a single counter argument. Your entire argument can be boiled down to "na, you are wrong". First off, your understanding of how the industry works is flatout wrong - a large portion of creative / art work is done on short, fixed term contracts, secondments, and a casual workforce working under casual contract law. Even huge companies such as Weta Digital and Weta Workshops have a very small full time permanent workforce.

    The problem is that the returns from something like a store mount are very easily measured - the item goes on the store, and the returns are clearly defined. Raiding however, is just one component of the game, and might be only part of the reason a player subscribes (the ROI). So although raid participation can be measured, the direct return on investment is much more difficult to gauge.

    No matter how much word salad you throw at the issue - WoW has a budget they must work within - and that budget is split up between various teams.

  14. #234
    Im sorry. But even remotley saying any raid in vanilla was difficult is nonesense. They were not hard. The playerbase as a whole at that time was just bad.

    I can pretty much garantee this time around naxx will be full cleares in an hour.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Im sorry. But even remotley saying any raid in vanilla was difficult is nonesense. They were not hard. The playerbase as a whole at that time was just bad.

    I can pretty much garantee this time around naxx will be full cleares in an hour.
    And when that happens, there will be the same small section of the community who will simply shift the goal posts like they have since before launch and say "nonono, NO ONE ever said VANILLA was hard, you just wait for BC! it will kill guilds!"

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Most of my b.net friends play it now, and as one of the original players, you'd think I'd be drawn to it for ol'nostalgia's sake or because one of the many problems I'm dissatisfied with in live.

    Yet, I can't bear playing it, tried a number of times. It is worse in nearly every way to live. The only thing it has over live is community. Somehow despite the brilliance that was sharding and xrealm (something I use to seriously suggest back in the day ), live has lost togetherness. It's hard to explain.

    However, in every departement it is vastly superior to classic. Classes, races, system, art, functionality, the works.. all so much better. Live is far more engaging - the only regret i think is that you can't actually experience the entire expansion systems as you level through them. It would have been nice if Shadowlands gave you the systems that were in place during the expansion you lveelled. But that doesn't make practical sense as it'd be too confusing for players.
    Completely disagree but its okay if you feel that way, but most of us are really enjoying it, and in light of the massive failure of bfa's "story" which is a cruel joke at this point i wonder if this isn't just a troll post because you haven't listed much here.

    I could list all the reasons that everyone has listed many times as to why i enjoy the game alongside others but you must know the factors and if they aren't for you it wont matter, likewise the BFA bike got very old quickly for me, maybe if classic wasn't around i'd be more keen to peddle for upgrades.
    Make sure if you still play your voice is heard if it matters to you, Mine wasn't.
    https://simplearmory.com/#/us/aman't...ectable/mounts
    BFA is another failure on Blizzard for leaving out information yet again despite promising communication with players while Azerite armor is an unfun system forced onto us to keep us grinding.

  17. #237
    I play classic, and honestly I can somewhat agree with OP.
    The end game is not really appealing to me, I enjoyed the ride getting to 60 more than being 60.

    Decided to become a casual gamer for classic, taking my time and just mostly doing professions. It's getting a bit old but currently all the games I had on my radar are delayed lol.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    I never once felt the need to go to the retail forums and say how bad it is and how much better classic is etc.
    but enough OTHER FANBOIs made threads like Classic will kill retail, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    Yet all these retail players feel the need to come to the classic forums and act like they played the game and "retail is just so much better, I got to lvl 2 in classic and was bored already!"
    thats what a forum is for to post the opinion people have no matter how much u dislike them....

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This is just a really sloppy attempt at discrediting what i said without providing a single counter argument. Your entire argument can be boiled down to "na, you are wrong". First off, your understanding of how the industry works is flatout wrong - a large portion of creative / art work is done on short, fixed term contracts, secondments, and a casual workforce working under casual contract law. Even huge companies such as Weta Digital and Weta Workshops have a very small full time permanent workforce.

    The problem is that the returns from something like a store mount are very easily measured - the item goes on the store, and the returns are clearly defined. Raiding however, is just one component of the game, and might be only part of the reason a player subscribes (the ROI). So although raid participation can be measured, the direct return on investment is much more difficult to gauge.

    No matter how much word salad you throw at the issue - WoW has a budget they must work within - and that budget is split up between various teams.
    If you think Blizzard will hire 2-3+ people just to create a store mount you are a lost cause. At this point there is no point arguing at all.

    Which is fine cuz your argument is idiotic.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    If you think Blizzard will hire 2-3+ people just to create a store mount you are a lost cause. At this point there is no point arguing at all.

    Which is fine cuz your argument is idiotic.
    That is called a strawman - thats what you just did. You couldnt argue against any of the points put forward, so you created your own. Nowhere did i say they hired 2-3+ people to create a store mount. Nowhere did i say they hired individuals specifically to create store mounts. See, thats the problem with a strawman - its so easily disproved because the text is all still right there for everyone to see.

    I always laugh when someones argument is so void of any credibility or substance, they simply say "im not arguing with you, its not worth it" while completely ignoring all the points raised. There is still time for you though, we can pretend this pathetic little strawman never happened, and you can simply have another go at discrediting the points raised.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    but enough OTHER FANBOIs made threads like Classic will kill retail, etc.


    thats what a forum is for to post the opinion people have no matter how much u dislike them....
    Unfortunately, although much of the classic community is open to discussion and friendly debate, there is a large portion that simply want an echo chamber - constantly confirming that classic is amazing, and there is nothing at all negative about it.

    I also find it amusing that some of them seem to think anyone who says anything negative about classic is a retail player, when by far the largest level of negativity comes from those who tried classic and hated it, tried it and simply burned out due to boredom, or, continue to play, but are frustrated by the endless flaws the game has.

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