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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    What are you doing on a video game forum with this nonsense point of view?
    I like current video games, not ones I've already played over 10 years ago

  2. #62
    The Lightbringer Eugenik's Avatar
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    Whats the point of this thread? Theres nothing to discuss and no one cares about your feelings, homie.. go blog somewhere else.
    Last edited by Eugenik; 2020-01-17 at 04:29 PM.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

    Eugenik - Tchondrius

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I like current video games, not ones I've already played over 10 years ago
    Sounds like a waste of time.

  4. #64
    Immortal Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Most of my b.net friends play it now, and as one of the original players, you'd think I'd be drawn to it for ol'nostalgia's sake or because one of the many problems I'm dissatisfied with in live.

    Yet, I can't bear playing it, tried a number of times. It is worse in nearly every way to live. The only thing it has over live is community. Somehow despite the brilliance that was sharding and xrealm (something I use to seriously suggest back in the day ), live has lost togetherness. It's hard to explain.

    However, in every departement it is vastly superior to classic. Classes, races, system, art, functionality, the works.. all so much better. Live is far more engaging - the only regret i think is that you can't actually experience the entire expansion systems as you level through them. It would have been nice if Shadowlands gave you the systems that were in place during the expansion you lveelled. But that doesn't make practical sense as it'd be too confusing for players.
    Just because you played Vanilla doesn't mean you have to be drawn to it, I've been around since Vanilla and it was a been there done that sort of thing for me.

    Not to mention some of my favorite specs are complete trash in vanilla...
    Hope, the greatest power of all!

    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  5. #65
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracleez View Post
    Basically all my arguments, but not all (I don't want to deal with them, invalidate that), and that's before you notice that many of the "reasons" you provided were opinion (again). I could also provide many other reasons why I don't like more races (racials do play into class balance). Art designers are involved in dungeon/quest/mob creation - just because they aren't designing mechanics doesn't mean the same people who work on art don't work on new classes as well as new dungeons and new mobs, and yes people who aren't on the art team do have to deal with putting new classes in the game, it's would be silly to accept your hypothesis that there isn't programmer time involved in dealing with racials, db updates, introductory and unlocking quests, etc. My point was that it's not objective, it's literally a matter of opinion, and you've (again) gotten them confused but you're too full of yourself just to say "yup" and move on with my disagreement about one little point in your post, even though I agree with most of it. This is a freakin' game - this is not "is the earth round," which is a provable hypothesis, and the question on this whole thread is "what is better." "More classes is better" is not provable, it is an opinion, and the idea that this happens repeatedly in these forums is what cracks me up. Yours is not the first post that attempts to tell others that what is provably subjective (I already did that) is objective.
    Basically you're making points that explain why you personally don't like having more races, and I make points explaining why it's good for the game in general. See the difference there. I'm not talking about my opinion, I dettached myself from it and look at the topic from a neutral perspective to understand its impact and purpose in the given context.

    You made the typical mistake of thinking that "if he wrote it that must certainly means it's an opinion" when it's not the case at all. My personnal opinion is that most allied races are lazy copy/pastas, but I can't deny the reality that there's a lot of buzz around them, almost as much as there was about any new real races introduced in the game and how it drew people in and created a lot of interest for the game, every single time there was a new race. Of course there's no scientist releasing papers to show studies made on the impact of new races in WoW, but I bet Blizz has a bunch of data showing it's a big deal for the game, otherwise very obviously they wouldn't be churning them out like they do.

    So far you're offering your opinion as argument against a fact. I'm explaining why what I said is a fact and you're not giving evidence to prove me wrong. You think that if you have an opinion different from a statement, it automatically makes that statement an opinion instead of a fact and the idea that you're simply wrong never even occurs to you. You're literally like an anti-vaxxer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    He made a thread, I made a post. If you cannot see the difference then I cannot help you. And since it is you, I don't expect you to.
    I see the difference, he was not offended, you were.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  6. #66
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    Yes, the furries obviously love their kitty cat races. Okay, lets just develop 25 new sub races to add to the game, surely that will make everyone happier?

    What point are you even trying to make?

    Try not to get into semantics arguments.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post

    Just like you don't need to comment in these threads.

    Jesus, the hypocrisy is RAMPANT around here.
    Just like you did here.

    Pot... meet kettle.

  8. #68
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castration View Post
    Just like you did here.

    Pot... meet kettle.
    If you don't see the difference the only thing I can tell you is wipe before you pull your pants ups and hold your glass of milk with both hands.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  9. #69
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wramp View Post
    ...I played for 9 days, realized I had done all this before and went back to retail, never to return to Classic. ...
    I don't get the 'done this all' argument. Sure, when an expansion is new, it's not what we've done before... but a few months in it IS. M+ is the very epitome of "done this before" as are raids on farm. All of WoW is something you've done many many times before except when an expansion or patch is brand new.

    It's why WoW sucks if you're not playing with a group you like (for me at least) - the activity isn't new and challenging. I ran Molten Core the other night and Ony last night. Was it new? No. But the guild is fun, the players are reasonably good and so... it's fun.

    All that said, I almost quit classic early on as a lot of it in the first 20 levels is incredibly frustrating and 'hard' in the sense that you have quests to get X bear butts or something but you need to kill 5x bears. I understand why they do that but it's poor design. Classic is fun if you have people you like to play it with but it's very much not polished. TBC polished a lot of the vanilla concepts as they learned what was good stuff to keep and what needed to change.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I don't get the 'done this all' argument. Sure, when an expansion is new, it's not what we've done before... but a few months in it IS. M+ is the very epitome of "done this before" as are raids on farm. All of WoW is something you've done many many times before except when an expansion or patch is brand new.

    It's why WoW sucks if you're not playing with a group you like (for me at least) - the activity isn't new and challenging. I ran Molten Core the other night and Ony last night. Was it new? No. But the guild is fun, the players are reasonably good and so... it's fun.

    All that said, I almost quit classic early on as a lot of it in the first 20 levels is incredibly frustrating and 'hard' in the sense that you have quests to get X bear butts or something but you need to kill 5x bears. I understand why they do that but it's poor design. Classic is fun if you have people you like to play it with but it's very much not polished. TBC polished a lot of the vanilla concepts as they learned what was good stuff to keep and what needed to change.
    Because it's finite, and you know exactly how it's going to end. There's only so many times you can run the same handful of dungeons/raids with your friends too before it becomes stale. I guess PVP and battlegrounds are the exception to this.

    Personally I enjoyed it for a bit but I wouldn't play it like I do a current living MMO. It'd be like playing Final Fantasy 7 for months.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    I can't deny the reality that there's a lot of buzz around them, almost as much as there was about any new real races introduced in the game and how it drew people in and created a lot of interest for the game, every single time there was a new race.
    ...
    So far you're offering your opinion as argument against a fact.
    /sigh. Last post, I honestly don't care enough about this to continue, so post another and be assured that "you won." I won't read it - hopefully people who read this will have enough sense to see what I'm saying since I didn't personally call them out and offend them by doing that and make them entrench themselves in an untenable position like you have.

    The idea that there's a lot of buzz around them and drew people in and created interest in the game is an utter fabrication, another opinion offered as fact, but I think from your behavior you're too invested in this to "detach yourself" and be honest with yourself about the discussion we're having, which is purely about "better," which by nature is subjective whether you're looking at it from a detached perspective or not. Numbers aren't better for the game, they're better for Blizz's bottom line, but whether you think they're better for the game as a whole (not your toon or playstyle) is, again, subjective and dependent on a lot of things. Is more income, and therefore a larger workforce, "better" for the game because you have more development resources and the game will continue longer? That seems to be your opinion, judging by "interest garnering" being "better." Or does better gameplay wholly define "good for the game?" If that's the case an indie company with $5 that makes an entertaining game would be better than having $10 and making something not worth playing. You could look at it either way, and people do, because yes it is subjective. I'm practically quoting a post Ghostcrawler made back in the day where he explored what makes a game "good" when the forums were so toxic. No, I'm not looking at things only from my perspective, and I haven't been for this whole thread, that's completely made up to discredit what I originally said.

    While we're on the subject, from a detached perspective looking at pure player base and "what's good for the game (meaning more $ = better)," which I understand to be your measurement, this game has continued to go downhill in subscribers from WotLK when it had less races. More races did not fix that or "create a lot of interest for the game," and my opinion is that focusing on things like that is what has driven it that way. I believe Wrath was popular and interesting because of the story, which hasn't been matched since (again, my opinion).

    Most racial releases coincided with patch or xpac releases and it would be impossible to distinguish gains from new content, which garners interest as well, from any real numbers generated by new races anyway - so it's pure opinion that races are what's driving interest aside from other new content. Again, opinions are being offered as facts, and then ad hominem attacks and "I bet Blizz has" being offered as evidence, which you then claim is unassailable and I must be ignoring just like a anti-vaxxer ignores evidence. Dude, you didn't provide any evidence, you stated an opinion (again) which is literally my point. Also, I absolutely gave evidence to prove you wrong, and did in this post too. I have showed you several times that there are different ways to define "better" with those different ways being valid, and this means it is subjective. "the idea that you're simply wrong never even occurs to you."

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    If you don't see the difference the only thing I can tell you is wipe before you pull your pants ups and hold your glass of milk with both hands.
    and here you go again...

    pot... meet kettle... try to remember meeting this time.

  13. #73
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
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    Classic is very slow, artificially slow in many places. PVE is totally unchallenging. It's a good game, but not something I can play longer than retail.

  14. #74
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    I think there's just some overly sensitive people about a game they enjoy and seeing it shit on here or there strikes a nerve.

    I did my time in Classic (lv 60, raided, was around for shit honor system world ganking and silver lining bgs), but for someone who is busy it feels like my time is more respected in Retail. Also the class balance is way better.

    And the Classic community is so damn toxic, to the point that even content creators for it aren't even creating content for it anymore and some have even gone to play other games (more cuz there's not much to do in the game).

    But anyway, I think you're getting a lot of those comments because maybe those people don't want others to see those sorts of comments and drive more people away from Classic and possibly over to Retail (there's this weird competition thing some people have between Classic/Retail as if one can't enjoy both).

    I think there's just some overly sensitive people about a game they enjoy and seeing it shit on here or there strikes a nerve.

    I did my time in Retail (lvled up, raided, was around for shit pvp system and silver lining bgs), but for someone who is busy it feels like my time is more respected in Classic. Also the loot system is way better. No warforged, titanforged, socketed or that neverending lottery shit.

    And the Retail community is so damn toxic, to the point that even content creators for it aren't even creating worthwhile content for it anymore and some have even gone to play other games (more cuz there's not much to do in the game).

    But anyway, I think you're getting a lot of those comments because maybe those people don't want others to see those sorts of comments and drive more people away from Retail and possibly over to Classic (there's this weird competition thing some people have between Classic/Retail as if one can't enjoy both).

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Indeed Wramp, that was the feeling I got. I realise though many people still play old titles, a lot - like WC3 maps, Diablo/Diablo 2 etc, this is despite the newer more improved versions still available. It is fascinating. WoW live is a direct evolution of classic, yet people can prefer classic over the current version, it's intriguing... perhaps community is the main reason. Is nostaliga such a powerful thing to cause that? I woud think by simply levelling up in wow live youcget all the nostalgia you ened, but then as Cataclysm redid the old world, that original experience is gone, and it is the only one that is gone.
    because Classic and Retail aren't the same game. They have similar concepts and are derived from the same lore and some of the same basics, but they aren't the same game.

    Halo 1 vs Halo 4. Dark Souls 1 vs Dark Souls 3. Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3.

    You talk as if these are all direct upgrades, but they aren't. They didn't simply ADD things to WoW, they changed things. When you change enough, it's no longer the same thing. Classic and Retail are as different as WoW and Rift, at this point. They have similar class names and feels, same armor types, same party paradigms, etc. but play completely differently. Classic and Retail are two games set in the same world created by two completely different companies. There's going to be a lot of similarities, but they aren't the same game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teffi
    You play a game for 20+ hours a week and you're "an addict".
    You sit on your fat ass eating nachos and watching men in tight pants throw a ball around for 20+ hours a week and you're "a man".
    Sometimes, I just can't even:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx
    It's just an assertion, so it's neither logical nor illogical.

  16. #76
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broken Fox View Post
    Because it's finite, and you know exactly how it's going to end.
    True of anything you've finished once. A mythic 5 man, raid, etc. Even more true of daily/world quests.

    There's only so many times you can run the same handful of dungeons/raids with your friends too before it becomes stale.
    This applies to retail just as much. Is anything in, say, Freehold even a remote surprise now? Even the affixes are known to people who run M+ keys.

    Now... yes, classic has an end point and won't be interesting for an infinite time. But neither will any given expansion in retail. What keeps retail fresh are the new expansions and patches... and those are only new for a couple of weeks before you've done what you want unless you're doing a raid difficulty that's really hard for your group.

    Also, I think Classic is new to some people (not sure how many) who either never played it or played it only partly. I, for example, never raided in vanilla since I started WoW a couple of months before TBC. A guy in our guild started WoW in *WoD* so to him, Classic is entirely new.

    All in all, this is one of those 'do it if you like it, don't do it if you don't' cases. OP tried it, it's not for them, fine. No harm, no foul.

  17. #77
    Opinion is subjective and everyone has a different one.

    I'd rather put my balls in a vice than play the garbage that retail is. For me, Classic is superior in almost every way and I never thought I'd enjoy it as much as I do.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by CrawlFromThePit View Post
    I see the difference, he was not offended, you were.
    And so what if I was offended? It doesn’t make this thread less pointless. You just make yourself look stupid but you always do that so no surprise.

  19. #79
    Bloodsail Admiral CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baracleez View Post
    /sigh. Last post, I honestly don't care enough about this to continue, so post another and be assured that "you won." I won't read it - hopefully people who read this will have enough sense to see what I'm saying since I didn't personally call them out and offend them by doing that and make them entrench themselves in an untenable position like you have.

    The idea that there's a lot of buzz around them and drew people in and created interest in the game is an utter fabrication, another opinion offered as fact, but I think from your behavior you're too invested in this to "detach yourself" and be honest with yourself about the discussion we're having, which is purely about "better," which by nature is subjective whether you're looking at it from a detached perspective or not. Numbers aren't better for the game, they're better for Blizz's bottom line, but whether you think they're better for the game as a whole (not your toon or playstyle) is, again, subjective and dependent on a lot of things. Is more income, and therefore a larger workforce, "better" for the game because you have more development resources and the game will continue longer? That seems to be your opinion, judging by "interest garnering" being "better." Or does better gameplay wholly define "good for the game?" If that's the case an indie company with $5 that makes an entertaining game would be better than having $10 and making something not worth playing. You could look at it either way, and people do, because yes it is subjective. I'm practically quoting a post Ghostcrawler made back in the day where he explored what makes a game "good" when the forums were so toxic. No, I'm not looking at things only from my perspective, and I haven't been for this whole thread, that's completely made up to discredit what I originally said.

    While we're on the subject, from a detached perspective looking at pure player base and "what's good for the game (meaning more $ = better)," which I understand to be your measurement, this game has continued to go downhill in subscribers from WotLK when it had less races. More races did not fix that or "create a lot of interest for the game," and my opinion is that focusing on things like that is what has driven it that way. I believe Wrath was popular and interesting because of the story, which hasn't been matched since (again, my opinion).

    Most racial releases coincided with patch or xpac releases and it would be impossible to distinguish gains from new content, which garners interest as well, from any real numbers generated by new races anyway - so it's pure opinion that races are what's driving interest aside from other new content. Again, opinions are being offered as facts, and then ad hominem attacks and "I bet Blizz has" being offered as evidence, which you then claim is unassailable and I must be ignoring just like a anti-vaxxer ignores evidence. Dude, you didn't provide any evidence, you stated an opinion (again) which is literally my point. Also, I absolutely gave evidence to prove you wrong, and did in this post too. I have showed you several times that there are different ways to define "better" with those different ways being valid, and this means it is subjective. "the idea that you're simply wrong never even occurs to you."
    I literally never talked about profit. Nice strawman, like everyone else who tried to push subjectivity on a fact they don't agree with.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    And so what if I was offended? It doesn’t make this thread less pointless. You just make yourself look stupid but you always do that so no surprise.
    Making a pointless post about a pointless thread makes you worse than what you already think is bad.

    Feel free to learn what satyre is so you can enjoy my post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Castration View Post
    and here you go again...

    pot... meet kettle... try to remember meeting this time.
    It was pointless, out of place and inaccurate the first time, even more so the second time.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  20. #80
    Classic is a better game because it has fewer races. This is better because players spend slightly less time making a decision on race and thus have more time to play. Less races mean a better game and this is an ObJeCtIvE fAcT.

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