Sometimes people just need instant gratification.
Sometimes people just need instant gratification.
[QUOTE=arkanon;52028607]Here is the funny part of all this - you are literally the guy who likes Battlefield Earth and you just cannot understand why everyone thinks you are crazy, as you flap on and on about what a great film it is.
You clearly missed his point. Hes measuring success.
When the express intent of anything is to create "fun," objectivity cannot exist since fun is different for every single player.
At best, we can look at things that are popular and those that are not. But without actual data, all we have are guesses as to actual popularity.
People tend to throw out claims based on their perceived popularity of rotations based on forum threads and such, but I have personal experience along with other anecdotes that at the very least suggests it's not as "obvious" as they claim.
[QUOTE=arkanon;52028633]What is he using to measure success?
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Well for one, even with the new patch 8.3, wow classic full servers show more active players than wow retail full servers where you cant even find 5 people near u on the same realm
Then please explain why you think classic rotations are better. Do you simply enjoy having less to do? You get excited by the absence of synergy between abilities? Procs stress you out so you want none of them?
For example when I play unholy DK, I can use a buff on my ghoul that gives him the ability to cleave and, along with a talent, a chance to apply a debuff on mobs, Scourge strike allows me to burst that debuff for extra damage, and when I use death and decay and stand in it, my scourge strike becomes AoE which allows to pop several debuffs at the same time that my pet previously applied because of the buff I gave him. This creates a special moment in the rotation with how a bunch of skills interact with each other.
That's depth that doesn't exist in any classic rotation. That's more originality than in any classic rotation. If you don't agree it means you have evidence to prove there's rotations in classic that are better. I'm not talking about what you enjoy, maybe you enjoy bad rotations with nothing going on, that doesn't mean classic rotations are better, and it doesn't mean the quality of rotations are subjective. Your APPRECIATION of the rotation is what is subjective, not the quality of the design itself, but what we enjoy/dislike is just perspective, you have to detach yourself from that bias, understand things for what they really are without your tastes, and make a judgment based on the neutral elements alone.
So basically if you don't agree with the points I brought up it means you have points to prove my points wrong. I'm not saying "you don't like classic rotations", I'm sure you do, and this entire conversation will not change what you enjoy in the game. It's only to make you realize that perspective and reality are 2 disconnected things, what we feel about something is not proof of quality, we can analyze and understand things beyond our preferences (subjectivity) to discover their true state (objectivity). It's perfectly fine to prefer classic rotations, but it's not fine to say they're better than retail rotations, instead of denying facts because they don't align with your preferences you're supposed to acknowledge them and that you like bad things. I like bad things too, everybody does, it's normal, there's also some classic rotations that I enjoy, they're still bad compared to retail, because my opinions and the facts are not the same, that's the situation for you, me, the next guy, your mom, your dog, everyone.
Having a greater emphasis on the buttons you press is much more enjoyable, yes.
Nope, you still apparently don't understand that "good" and "bad" rotations are not something you can claim as fact. Because you feel retail rotations are better "quality" does not make it reality for anyone but yourself.
Last edited by Mozu; 2020-01-17 at 08:57 PM.
Classic reminded me why all those years ago I considered raids the coolest points of my weekly schedule - this feeling deteriorated on retail over years, and I wasted embarassing amount of time chasing after that feeling, going hardcore, than casual, then even more hardcore... not understanding why I don't have fun like I used to.
For me, and for a lot of people it seems, raids were something that allowed me to RELAX.
"Modern" gaming is infested by esports approach. Everything needs to be competitive, everything needs to revolve around skill, everything needs to be fast and sudden and require constant focus and insane reactions so you can prove you are better than other players. Except... I never got into WoW to prove I'm better than anyone, or seek competition and stress in a boring life... on the contrary, my life was always quite stressful, raid was a chill moment where I could have fun with other people, and satisfaction from achieving a goal towards which we were working together. Work as, slow and steady, not agressively smashing our keyboards.
I understand people that use games as a way of testing themselves. For me though, and for many others, it was never the point.
The rotation is the series of buttons you press in order to do damage during a fight. How does any skill has more emphasis in classic than in retail? Emphasis is usually something noticed based on how important the effect of a skill is in a given context, like doing a frost nova to help the tank kite for a few seconds and survive. Off the top of my head I literally cannot think of a single ROTATION (cuz that's the subject here, not class kit or utility, that's a different discussion) that has more emphasis in classic than in retail.
That's the issue, you think that's what I feel, when it's actually a reality that I understand and relay to you, devoid of feelings.
You can say "I don't enjoy retail rotations" and move on, but making the claim that my comment is subjective without being able to prove that it is and making some form of appeal to authority based on literally nothing really doesn't help your case.
Here's an example to prove that your "good and bad are always subjective" argument is completely useless.
Driving on a red light is bad, driving on a green light is good. Is this just because the law says so? No, it's because there's inherent risk in the mechanics of transportation that makes crossroads dangerous when not travelled in an organized manner. Therefore it's objectively bad to drive on a red light. Does that mean it's not fun? Absolutely not, it's fucking fun to save time by burning a red light, some people would even say the risk is thrilling or they enjoy challenging authority, some people get stressed out and even stop earlier because their perspective makes them feel unsafe. The reality and the perspectives there are completely different, it's the exact same thing with pretty much everything in life, including rotations.
Nothing you said so far proves that what I said is subjective.