1. #20101
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I don't give a rats ass about your interpretation regarding his intention.
    I only care about what has been said.

    If you do not want others to quote you, stop speaking. I am on no crusade but I did observe some hilarious behavior in this thread regarding the statements of the CDC.
    you seem to not give a rat's ass about anything really except your own selfish whiny pity party about how you have it so terrible over in germany. spare us your agony. nobody cares if you can't go out and party and go bar hopping because the governments would rather save lives than go full usa. but please go ahead and keep whining about it.
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  2. #20102
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...th-coronavirus

    First NA case of someone getting re-infected with covid in NV, bringing the total global count up to five.
    Other reports that 23 have been confirmed reinfected globally, one with deadly outcome

    https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/1...9-reinfection/

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I'm revisiting this because of something in the above article.

    NPR: Scientists Confirm Nevada Man Was Infected Twice With Coronavirus
    That article doesn't say that vaccines give better immunity or that they normally give better immunity than normal infection, but that they can give better immunity (which is true for HPV), but I have still not seen any statement that it's normal.

    That article from NPR also seem to contain at least two errors/misunderstandings, so I wouldn't use it as authoritative source.

  3. #20103
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    That article doesn't say that vaccines give better immunity or that they normally give better immunity than normal infection, but that they can give better immunity (which is true for HPV), but I have still not seen any statement that it's normal.

    That article from NPR also seem to contain at least two errors/misunderstandings, so I wouldn't use it as authoritative source.
    Your attempt at shitposting aside, that's not what Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunology at Yale, meant.

    An article that she co-wrote on the subject:

    NYTimes: Scared That Covid-19 Immunity Won’t Last? Don’t Be
    Within the last couple of months, several scientific studies have come out — some peer-reviewed, others not — indicating that the antibody response of people infected with SARS-CoV-2 dropped significantly within two months. The news has sparked fears that the very immunity of patients with Covid-19 may be waning fast — dampening hopes for the development of an effective and durable vaccine.

    But these concerns are confused and mistaken.

    Both our bodies’ natural immunity and immunity acquired through vaccination serve the same function, which is to inhibit a virus and prevent it from causing a disease. But they don’t always work quite the same way.

    And so a finding that naturally occurring antibodies in some Covid-19 patients are fading doesn’t actually mean very much for the likely efficacy of vaccines under development. Science, in this case, can be more effective than nature.

    The human immune system has evolved to serve two functions: expediency and precision. Hence, we have two types of immunity: innate immunity, which jumps into action within hours, sometimes just minutes, of an infection; and adaptive immunity, which develops over days and weeks.

    Almost all the cells in the human body can detect a viral infection, and when they do, they call on our white blood cells to deploy a defensive response against the infectious agent.

    When our innate immune response is successful at containing that pathogen, the infection is resolved quickly and, generally, without many symptoms. In the case of more sustained infections, though, it’s our adaptive immune system that kicks in to offer us protection.

    The adaptive immune system consists of two types of white blood cells, called T and B cells, that detect molecular details specific to the virus and, based on that, mount a targeted response to it.

    A virus causes disease by entering cells in the human body and hijacking their genetic machinery so as to reproduce itself again and again: It turns its hosts into viral factories.

    T cells detect and kill those infected cells. B cells make antibodies, a kind of protein that binds to the viral particles and blocks them from entering our cells; this prevents the replication of the virus and stops the infection in its tracks.

    The body then stores the T and B cells that helped eliminate the infection, in case it might need them in the future to fight off the same virus again. These so-called memory cells are the main agents of long-term immunity.

    The antibodies produced in response to a common seasonal coronavirus infection last for about a year. But the antibodies generated by a measles infection last, and provide protection, for a lifetime.

    Yet it is also the case that with other viruses the amount of antibodies in the blood peaks during an infection and drops after the infection has cleared, often within a few months: This is the fact that has some people worried about Covid-19, but it doesn’t mean what it might seem.

    That antibodies decrease once an infection recedes isn’t a sign that they are failing: It’s a normal step in the usual course of an immune response.

    Nor does a waning antibody count mean waning immunity: The memory B cells that first produced those antibodies are still around, and standing ready to churn out new batches of antibodies on demand.

    And that is why we should be hopeful about the prospects of a vaccine for Covid-19.

    A vaccine works by mimicking a natural infection, generating memory T and B cells that can then provide long-lasting protection in the people who are vaccinated. Yet the immunity created by vaccines differs from the immunity created by a natural infection in several important ways.

    Virtually all viruses that infect humans contain in their genomes blueprints for producing proteins that help them evade detection by the innate immune system. For example, SARS-CoV-2 appears to have a gene dedicated to silencing the innate immune system.


    Among the viruses that have become endemic in humans, some have also figured out ways to dodge the adaptive immune system: H.I.V.-1 mutates rapidly; herpes viruses deploy proteins that can trap and incapacitate antibodies.

    Thankfully, SARS-CoV-2 does not seem to have evolved any such tricks yet — suggesting that we still have an opportunity to stem its spread and the pandemic by pursuing a relatively straightforward vaccine approach.

    Vaccines come in different flavors — they can be based on killed or live attenuated viral material, nucleic acids or recombinant proteins. But all vaccines consist of two main components: an antigen and an adjuvant.

    The antigen is the part of the virus we want the adaptive immune response to react to and target. The adjuvant is an agent that mimics the infection and helps jump-start the immune response.

    One beauty of vaccines — and one of their great advantages over our body’s natural reaction to infections — is that their antigens can be designed to focus the immune response on a virus’s Achilles heel (whatever that may be).

    Another advantage is that vaccines allow for different kinds and different doses of adjuvants — and so, for calibration and fine-tuning that can help boost and lengthen immune responses.

    The immune response generated against a virus during natural infection is, to some degree, at the mercy of the virus itself. Not so with vaccines.

    Since many viruses evade the innate immune system, natural infections sometimes do not result in robust or long-lasting immunity. The human papillomavirus is one of them, which is why it can cause chronic infections. The papillomavirus vaccine triggers a far better antibody response to its viral antigen than does a natural HPV infection: It is almost 100 percent effective in preventing HPV infection and disease.


    Not only does vaccination protect against infection and disease; it also blocks viral transmission — and, if sufficiently widespread, can help confer so-called herd immunity to a population.

    What proportion of individuals in a given population needs to be immune to a new virus so that the whole group is, in effect, protected depends on the virus’s basic reproduction number — broadly speaking: the average number of people that a single infected person will, in turn, infect.

    For measles, which is highly contagious, more than 90 percent of a population must be immunized in order for unvaccinated individuals to also be protected. For Covid-19, the estimated figure — which is unsettled, understandably — ranges between 43 percent and 66 percent.

    Given the severe consequences of Covid-19 for many older patients, as well as the disease’s unpredictable course and consequences for the young, the only safe way to achieve herd immunity is through vaccination. That, combined with the fact that SARS-CoV-2 appears not to have yet developed a mechanism to evade detection by our adaptive immune system, is ample reason to double down on efforts to find a vaccine fast.

    So do not be alarmed by reports about Covid-19 patients’ dropping antibody counts; those are irrelevant to the prospects of finding a viable vaccine.

    Remember instead that more than 165 vaccine candidates already are in the pipeline, some showing promising early trial results.

    And start thinking about how best to ensure that when that vaccine comes, it will be distributed efficiently and equitably.

    Akiko Iwasaki is the Waldemar Von Zedtwitz Professor in the Department of Immunobiology and a Professor in the Department of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology at Yale. Ruslan Medzhitov is a Sterling Professor in the Department of Immunobiology at Yale School of Medicine. Both are investigators at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute.
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  4. #20104
    when someone says covid will go away after election day i remind them that joe biden isnt inaugerated until january 21st to take care of the virus

  5. #20105
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    It's not a concern for the survival of the human species, no. But most of those deaths were/are avoidable.
    Considering that most of these deaths occurred while we were taking measures, I'd like to disagree on that one.

    Not every country is like the USA and made a mess of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Closing schools will also impact the economy, at least if you want the students to remain home.
    Closing Schools, esp. elementary ones, is the biggest impact you can have on the economy, because you force parents to stay at home too.
    It makes sense that they close them last.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Your attempt at shitposting aside, that's not what Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunology at Yale, meant.
    An article that she co-wrote on the subject:
    NYTimes: Scared That Covid-19 Immunity Won’t Last? Don’t Be
    Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing!

  6. #20106
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    so 2 of the 4 vaccines are paused, though I've read it's pretty rare thing to pause on phase 3, though this corona is very weird virus that we still don't know everything about it. Not exactly worrying but anyone being optimistic and expecting a vaccine this year should probably curb those.

  7. #20107
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Your attempt at shitposting aside, that's not what Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, a professor of immunology at Yale, meant.
    Projecting much?

    What I stated was that the NPR article wasn't an authoritative source, and by writing "what she meant..." that gives a quite different explanation from the NPR-article you merely confirm my statement.

    My statement is still that I haven't seen a source stating that vaccines normally give a longer-lasting (or otherwise better) immunity than infections.

    What she is saying is that vaccines can be more targeted, and having many candidates certainly increases that hope, but it's still not clear.
    For HPV it gives better protection (which both I and professor Iwasaki give as examples). For the Flu vaccines it seem to give shorter lasting protection (that's why you shouldn't get the flu shot too early each year), and even though researches are working on a universal flu vaccine it has so far not been successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Closing Schools, esp. elementary ones, is the biggest impact you can have on the economy, because you force parents to stay at home too.
    It makes sense that they close them last.
    True, and the same issue mean that it not only impacts the economy at large - but also the health-care sector, and it has long term effects since lack of education and socialization can give long-lasting problems that aren't easy to correct afterwards (the mind loses plasticity).

    Closing pubs does not seem to cause similar long term problems, but it also seems as though the alcohol-restrictions are a bit odd - as if there's a moral crusade going on. And I still don't understand why six is the magic number; as it seems Italy is now having their own 'rule of six'.

  8. #20108
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    when someone says covid will go away after election day i remind them that joe biden isnt inaugerated until january 21st to take care of the virus
    It will... there is infinite amount if time after the election.
    As above, so below.
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  9. #20109
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The last three days have seen 1 million confirmed new cases worldwide.
    It’s daunting but I think most of us knew that we were going to have a surge again this winter.
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  10. #20110
    So, just had another of those "it's just a flu" conversations with an American. The funny bit, that person claimed the "fearmongering" of the next pandemic is just around the corner because the CDC is basically controlled by communists that want to destabilise the West... And China is going to release the next virus, too...

    Is that a common thought in the US? I can't tell anymore...
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  11. #20111
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    So, just had another of those "it's just a flu" conversations with an American. The funny bit, that person claimed the "fearmongering" of the next pandemic is just around the corner because the CDC is basically controlled by communists that want to destabilise the West... And China is going to release the next virus, too...

    Is that a common thought in the US? I can't tell anymore...
    Yes and no. Typically depends on the state you’re in.
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  12. #20112
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    It’s daunting but I think most of us knew that we were going to have a surge again this winter.
    I've heard it reported in March already. I'm pretty sure I mentioned it here somewhere.

    Edit: God, this forum... posts are all kinds of whacked and out of order.
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  13. #20113
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The funny bit, that person claimed the "fearmongering" of the next pandemic is just around the corner because the CDC is basically controlled by communists that want to destabilise the West...
    The CDC...
    And the FDA...
    And the HHS...
    And the ECDC...
    And the EMA...
    And the WHO...

    And their conspiracy don't even stop in organizations but in peer-review publications too:

    and the Lancet...
    and the New England Journal of Medicine...
    and Nature...
    and the Anals of Internal Medicine...

    Fuck! we are surronded by communists.Communists everywhere....In fact: fuck it!, everyone that paints an ugly picture: communist too.

  14. #20114
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The funny bit, that person claimed the "fearmongering" of the next pandemic is just around the corner because the CDC is basically controlled by communists that want to destabilise the West...
    Ookay. Did you ask him whether his tinfoil hat was a little tight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    It’s daunting but I think most of us knew that we were going to have a surge again this winter.
    It will most likely get worse and yes: it's entirely expected.

  15. #20115
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It will most likely get worse and yes: it's entirely expected.
    The fact it never really got "better" only ever, "just not as bad" where i am because people are selfish fucking morons is disheartening.

  16. #20116
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    The CDC...
    And the FDA...
    And the HHS...
    And the ECDC...
    And the EMA...
    And the WHO...

    And their conspiracy don't even stop in organizations but in peer-review publications too:

    and the Lancet...
    and the New England Journal of Medicine...
    and Nature...
    and the Anals of Internal Medicine...

    Fuck! we are surronded by communists.Communists everywhere....In fact: fuck it!, everyone that paints an ugly picture: communist too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Ookay. Did you ask him whether his tinfoil hat was a little tight?
    he just responds with "You don't know what you're talking about."

    Which I guess is valid, since I don't know that much about domestic politics in the US. But as an outsider, it seems a bit unreal that people have reverted back to McCarthyisms in their daily thinking. I thought the US put that crazy era behind it... And sure, I acknowledge that this is my bubble right here, and I got the sane responses I expected. But is that because this is a bubble and are y'all crazy, too? Or is it because it's actually sanity speaking?

    Fucking world is so weird now. Used to be that Communists were safely stored in Russia and China (and some other minor places nobody gave a shit about). Suddenly NK is the biggest threat (lol, when did that happen?), Communists are responsible for illegal immigrants to subvert the American society with radical leftists and Europe is the bastion of liberties and human rights...
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  17. #20117
    New day record for:


    Fuck the Netherlands.

    7393 cases, with lockdown shit in place... So, stricter/harder lockdown measures should happen. But I lost faith in my own countrymens willingness to follow said measures. (I've been in quarantine since feb basically, with some gaps of working when shit died down. And its pissing me off. That people dont take it seriously, so that it sods off so that i can find new job/do things again) Country is doing terrible at the moment. The Florida of the EU atm
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  18. #20118
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    New day record for:


    Fuck the Netherlands.

    7393 cases, with lockdown shit in place... So, stricter/harder lockdown measures should happen. But I lost faith in my own countrymens willingness to follow said measures. (I've been in quarantine since feb basically, with some gaps of working when shit died down. And its pissing me off. That people dont take it seriously, so that it sods off so that i can find new job/do things again) Country is doing terrible at the moment. The Florida of the EU atm
    Having "lockdown shit" in place is effectively meaningless if a sizable portion of the public doesn't actually follow it. Look at the US.....

  19. #20119
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Having "lockdown shit" in place is effectively meaningless if a sizable portion of the public doesn't actually follow it. Look at the US.....
    Our gov is giving out $10,000 dollar fines around here if you are not following the rules, so people listen pretty fast.
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  20. #20120
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The fact it never really got "better" only ever, "just not as bad" where i am because people are selfish fucking morons is disheartening.
    Hmm.. here it was basically gone during the summer months.
    So much so, that people got a wee bit frustrated with the continuation of some of the measures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    7393 cases, with lockdown shit in place... So, stricter/harder lockdown measures should happen.
    You do realize that it takes 2 weeks for newly implemented measures to kick in and be visible in the numbers?

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