Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Granyala]

Or, in other words, you're failing the Shopping Cart test.

It's odd how the people that bang on about personal responsibility constantly demonstrate they have not a whit of it.

Hmm. I've never even considered not returning a shopping cart.

[Edge-]

Hmm. I've never even considered not returning a shopping cart.

You passed the test, then. It sure is easy, ain't it? : P

[Granyala]

You passed the test, then. It sure is easy, ain't it? : P

Pretty much, yes.

[Tulune]

Well, despite being as careful as I could be, I probably have Covid. I was sick this past weekend, chills, muscle pains, and a fever. now my sense of smell is gone. I can't even smell rubbing alcohol. Great. My husband is diabetic, and we live in a one bedroom apartment, so he'll most likely get it too. I'm not worried about myself, I'm worried about my husband.

[unfilteredJW]

Yeah that's you, condensed in one post.
All about your sour need to feel better about yourself.

Falling back on your old "I know you are but what am I" tactic.

Adorable as always.

[Shadowferal]

What's adorable is imagining in some childish way that name-calling is part of effective communication.
Bravo!
I'm sure most of the world is in awe!

[Felya]

Or, in other words, you're failing the Shopping Cart test.

Uhm... I gather all the carts I see on my way to the car and return them all... I go as fast as I can, then try to ride them on the back two wheels... Yes... I am over 40 years old...

I return them all and have fun doing it... how do I do on the test?

[Granyala]

how do I do on the test?

Depends... how far do you get riding on two wheels? :P

[Orange Joe]

Yes it is dangerous to the older crowd much like the chicken pox. You are still struggling to follow the conversation... why is it that the age group with has a mortality rate on par to the seasonal flu being restricted rather then simply the groups at risk?

Because you can't really do that. Say you do that, then more and more people get infected. Said at risk group is now at a much higher risk of getting infected while getting necessary items to live. You can't completely isolate a select group of people so your idea would never work.

- - - Updated - - -

What are you waiting for exactly I spelled out I won't take responsibility for other people's health just how clear of a rebuke do you want?

Now we are weirdly proclaiming masks work while accepting they don't. I am starting to think people simply want the feeling they are/can do something. People should simply be drawing on their personal savings.

Do you believe condoms work or not? They aren't 100% so that must mean they are useless by your logic right?

[Krakan]

Because you can't really do that. Say you do that, then more and more people get infected. Said at risk group is now at a much higher risk of getting infected while getting necessary items to live. You can't completely isolate a select group of people so your idea would never work.

- - - Updated - - -



Do you believe condoms work or not? They aren't 100% so that must mean they are useless by your logic right?

For your first paragraph if you cant get a select group isolated you can't then expect to isolate everyone.

For your second it's a false equivalent. If sperm and STDs passed through a condom it would then be a good comparison to unrated masks.

[Edge-]

For your first paragraph if you cant get a select group isolated you can't then expect to isolate everyone.

No, that's why everyone else is being asked to do the easy, painless, quick task of wearing masks and keeping social distance. It's really, really not hard or even inconvenient.

For your second it's a false equivalent. If sperm and STDs passed through a condom it would then be a good comparison to unrated masks.

I already linked you where to buy masks that studies have shown effective, silk masks and they even have the spot for the additional filter insert. Go buy one and stop spreading misinformation. Because yes, condoms can break/fail (even if they're not expired). As stated, they're not 100% effective. Pretty much nothing is, dude.

[Granyala]

For your first paragraph if you cant get a select group isolated you can't then expect to isolate everyone.

The point is not isolating people.
Stop thinking in black and white absolutes.

The point is driving down the chance of infection for the risk groups. We will never achieve 100% protection but even if we can achieve 33% it's still a lot of people saved. Same applies to masks, yeah they cannot contain/filter the viral particles. Thankfully, SARS-CoV-2 is not airborne in the traditional sense. It travels on much larger droplets. Catch them (and even unrated cloth masks can catch a statistically significant amount of these) and you drive down the viral loads expelled by people and subsequently drive down the % chance of infection when in close combat (like public transport). Add a minimum safe distance wherever possible and the %ages go down even further.

I think many of the measures are quite reasonable:
- wearing masks in public transport / shops / doc's offices, hospitals, nursing homes etc
- maintaining a minimum distance
- reducing personal contacts that are unnecessary
- reduce unnecessary travelling

Sadly others aren't:
- masks in the open air is an idiotic concept that need to die ASAP (demonstrations and similar mass gatherings etc. excluded ofc)
- closing down Hotels, restaurants etc. that follow proper hygiene concepts and take data for contact tracing is also a completely unnecessary hit to the economy

[Orange Joe]

For your first paragraph if you cant get a select group isolated you can't then expect to isolate everyone.

For your second it's a false equivalent. If sperm and STDs passed through a condom it would then be a good comparison to unrated masks.

No one is saying isolate everyone. Wearing mask and social distancing isn't isolating anyone.

Masks aren't 100% but they help Thats the point you are ignoring. And you know this.

[Edge-]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/opini...247711465.html

Idaho Statesman throws down on the anti-mask/pro-virus nutters who are terrorizing children because they reject reality and view wearing a mask as akin to slavery.

[Easo]

Meanwhile in Estonia...

We get more and more infected people, this week there was another record high at 524 infections, followed by 2 days of 400+ infections (and much higher than previous record). Those numbers might seem low, but do remember that country's population is just above 1 million and these numbers are super high compared to numbers in spring. Our government is afraid to lock down stuff because it might damage economy (as if anyone cares about economy of Estonia - another small handout from EU or NATO would cover all losses).

Meanwhile in north-east region people didn't believe in virus, now they have highest number of infections per capita. On opposite side on Saaremaa this weekend someone decided it would be great idea for a weekend long birthday celebration with 250 guests and everyone there was ok with it. In south in Tartu people are filing lawsuits against order to wear masks. Stupidity all around.

Don't worry my northern brother, we are joining you in the insanity party - in Latvia 38% of nation do not want to be vaccinated, 28% do not know and only 34% want to according to survey done this week (https://www.leta.lv/home/important/7...-F28F2FF3824F/). And while I could go and blame our local Russians for believing in the absolute bullshit being spread in the internet (and partly clearly by Russia's goverment, queue triggered nationalists incoming) they are far from actually being 38% of population. Stupidity is universal and as one scientist said today - people who believe in conspiracy theories will not care about facts being given to them.

Also our numbers are whack, it all went to hell. Lithuania is even more fucked with now a 3k per day...

[Fuiking]

8700+ new cases in the netherlands, and ofc our great leaders are lagging behind.

[Granyala]

If everyone wears masks, it is possible that the average infected person infects less than 1 person, and the outbreak starts to subside (like it did in China).

That is incorrect. You are assuming that people wear masks 24/7. Most people don't and they can't be expected to.
Most transmissions occur in private settings, where no mask mandates can be enforced.

We have enough EU countries with very rigid mask mandates and they all had a second wave. It's safe to say, that masks will not cause the epidemic to subside.

Yes I know media loves to bash the people that refuse to wear masks, but from my experience they are few and far in between. Too few here in my city to make a dent in the numbers, from what I can see, compliance is at 95% and up. Yet we still had a rather substantial rise in cases.

[Krakan]

I'm joining this conversation late, but here's what I think. It's basically incontrovertible that wearing masks will save 200, 300, maybe 500 hundred thousand lives over the next three months versus not wearing them. If no one wears masks, the average infected person will infect 2-3 other people, and the virus will grow explosively. If everyone wears masks, it is possible that the average infected person infects less than 1 person, and the outbreak starts to subside (like it did in China).

I think what you are proposing is that people who are at risk should take protective measures but those who aren't don't need to. This is where the important point of mask wearing comes into play. Wearing a mask is not about protecting yourself, it's about protecting others from you. So if I'm at risk and a wear a mask, and no one else does and the virus continues to rage through the population, it's not safe for me to be in contact with anyone, ever. To go to the grocery store, to walk outside, anything. My mask doesn't protect me if others aren't wearing masks too.

So your idea, that only those who are at risk should take precautions, basically implies that those who are at risk, which is about half the population, should become hermits for the next few months until the vaccine can be given to them. Otherwise they are exposed to unacceptable risk any time they go in public and run into people not wearing masks.

The alternative idea that many people are proposing is that everyone wears masks, which is a minor inconvenience for everyone but massively reduces the risk for at risk people, so they can actually have some limited social contact over the next 3-4 months.

Yes, freedom is lovely, but the obvious point that the no maskers seem to miss is that freedom has always come with some rules that stop people from taking actions that hurt other people. That's why drugs are illegal. That's why you can't smoke in an elevator.

Our country's response to the pandemic is a national embarrassment. The fact that we have become so selfish that we can't accept simple things like wearing a mask (and also that we have way too many influential people who are just dumb and telling everyone that it's fine not to), while a country like China can actually do what it's supposed to do and protect everyone, is pathetic. We used to be a country that came together in times of crisis - look at rationing and all the sacrifices we made in world war 2. Look at the hundreds of thousands who fought for the North in the Civil War (when they really had no skin in the game).

The people who are arguing that we shouldn't need to make sacrifices are mostly the same people who say we need to "make America great again", ignoring that when America was "great", people made sacrifices, there a sense of social consciousness, of community, and a willingness to think about others.

TLDR: With coronavirus, the biological weapon is other people. We need to put protective coverings on these biological weapons to protect everyone. We live in a community, and being part of a community means recognizing that you should care about keeping other people safe. Arguing that you can walk around in public without a mask is like arguing that you can walk around with a fox that eats children without any leash on the fox because is harmless to you, and saying that if it's so bad for children they should just stay at home.

And yes, at some point there was an argument that we couldn't afford to do this. We didn't know the endgame. It could have been years.

But now we know. The vaccines work. The virus will start to decline in the spring, most likely be a memory by fall. So we are talking about wearing masks for 3-5 months. To save hundreds of thousands of lives. There's nothing to discuss anymore. We just do it, or we show that we are failing nation.

Bro you don't actually think china is telling the truth do you?

[Edge-]

Bro you don't actually think china is telling the truth do you?

About...not genetically engineering a virus? Or what?

[Krakan]

About...not genetically engineering a virus? Or what?

I mean in general about pretty much anything... from their stock value to what happens to protestors. Unless it males them look good odds are the chinese government is lying.