1. #20461
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    lol... what...
    Medical personnel wears masks for many hours as part of their profession. Do you think a surgeon goes out mid operation to change his mask?

  2. #20462
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Washington (né California)
    Posts
    4,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    nope... if we had isolated people who were infected here and told people who were anywhere nearby them we wouldn't even have gotten to the point we are now... but they couldn't find people who were in their vicinity because that would be a violation of the right to privacy here... all they can do is trust that people seek medical attention if they have symptoms... a lot of people don't do that and think it's just a cold... meanwhile south korea aggressively chased down people who were close to those infected...
    It's like you don't acknowledge that asymptomatic spread is a thing. People can spread it without knowing they're infected. No contact tracing is going to be anywhere near 100% effective at targeting everyone who may have contracted it, so some people will always slip through the cracks and continue to infect others. If people don't wear masks properly, that will only have a synergistic effect.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  3. #20463
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    It's like you don't acknowledge that asymptomatic spread is a thing. People can spread it without knowing they're infected. No contact tracing is going to be anywhere near 100% effective at targeting everyone who may have contracted it, so some people will always slip through the cracks and continue to infect others. If people don't wear masks properly, that will only have a synergistic effect.
    Aye.
    Contact tracing is best if you can actually verify nearly 100% of the chain. For that to be feasible you need a low enough case number for it.
    Right now in Germany >75% of the infections can no longer be traced, that is bad.

  4. #20464
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    less than 50 cases where i live...
    a lot changed in a few days.

  5. #20465
    Bloodsail Admiral Raspberry Lemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Medical personnel wears masks for many hours as part of their profession. Do you think a surgeon goes out mid operation to change his mask?
    microorganisms don't decide to wait days until they appear...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    a lot changed in a few days.
    we're still below 50 cases... and all new cases is at a retirement home...

  6. #20466
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    microorganisms don't decide to wait days until they appear...
    They need time to multiply though. A single microbe won't cause any harm.

  7. #20467
    I can't believe after 1000 pages this nonsense of mask and false information is still showing up.
    Even more proof of the failures of this administration when it comes to COVID.

    Can't even get that right in this country. 100k daily averages inc!
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
    Karma 1 Trump 0 -Feel as bad for trump as trump did for Hillary- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIBw-_0T6I

  8. #20468
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    I can't believe after 1000 pages this nonsense of mask and false information is still showing up.
    Even more proof of the failures of this administration when it comes to COVID.

    Can't even get that right in this country. 100k daily averages inc!
    And you know what to do right? All countries in the world got this problem but we got our savior right here...

  9. #20469
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Medical personnel wears masks for many hours as part of their profession. Do you think a surgeon goes out mid operation to change his mask?
    I don't know, but I find that another question would be more important: should they?
    There are studies suggesting they should change masks after 2 hour surgery, but only after operation is complete; https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...14031X18300809

    But more importantly we don't really know if the surgeons even should wear medical mask!
    Seriously!

    It seems obvious that medical masks should be good for reducing the infections of patients, but the evidence is between lacking and negative: https://www.cadth.ca/use-surgical-ma...and-guidelines https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1853618/.
    Maybe they would work if surgeons wore them correctly, or they made differently, or they actually changed them more often. Maybe the problem is elsewhere.

    Obviously I don't recommend surgeons to change their practice based on a post here, and these studies focus on masks having bacteria grow on them which isn't relevant for flu, and covid. (Medical masks among health-care workers seem to reduce the spread of those viruses; and they cannot always maintain physical distancing.)

    And even if the surgeons wearing masks don't help with reducing infections of patients it still protects the surgeon from getting blood etc splattered in their mouth.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-10-29 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #20470
    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    And you know what to do right? All countries in the world got this problem but we got our savior right here...
    no savior but i am also not running around saying we beat covid, we don't need mask, we don't need doctors and scientist telling us what to do, that its a hoax, that we have more cases only cause we are testing more, etc etc insert even more embarrassing things the people of this country keep spouting about those very topics 6 months after it should have been settled.




    sure seems like a few countries have it figured out

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSt...ction-73896769

    aiwan marks 200 days without domestic COVID-19 infection
    Taiwan has hit 200 days without any domestically transmitted cases of COVID-19, highlighting the island’s continued success at keeping the virus under control even as cases surge in other parts of the world

    Since the pandemic began, Taiwan has recorded 553 cases of COVID-19, and just seven deaths. While it has stopped domestic transmission, it continues to record new cases in people arriving from abroad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    And you know what to do right? All countries in the world got this problem but we got our savior right here...
    Oh i see...your post....ah i insulted the dear leader....explains why you are being so adversarial
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
    Karma 1 Trump 0 -Feel as bad for trump as trump did for Hillary- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIBw-_0T6I

  11. #20471
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I don't know, but I find that another question would be more important: should they?
    I don't think it's a good idea, it takes quite a while to sterilize the surgeon again.
    Would be unnecessary strain for the patient. I'm sure they change the masks for every new op.

  12. #20472
    Dreadlord
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Industrial heart of the USSR... now torn apart
    Posts
    959
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    You two are just embroiled in a pointless argument that isn't actually proving or disproving anything.

    "Nu uh, you needs to not exclude so much!" "Nu-uh, your date was 2 days out"

    What a joke.
    Yeah. Much pointless noise over a small simple statement. Back when daily cases looked like in the picture below, I said "it seems the world as a whole has peaked".



    Surely looks like a peak to me, how about you? As later events showed, it wasn't the peak, but it's undeniable that it's a peak. I was a bit surprised when PhaelixWW vehemently attacked my little harmless post - at that point I still believed PhaelixWW was an honest poster, so instead of dismissing him outright like I would with a more obvious troll, I gave several honest replies to him and other posters, including the one after data showed that instead of an actual peak we had Twin Peaks, and instead of a decline we had a generally flat, somewhat fluctuating period.

    I said all that in August. Now that enough time has passed, everyone with a brain can see my assessment was largely correct (I didn't expect the ongoing rise to dwarf the summer peaks that much though). But PhaelixWW just had to prove me wrong, and since all I said was a few simple undeniable facts while PhaelixWW's attacks originated from some fictional universe in which there's only one peak, TV show "Twin Peaks" never existed, expressions "next peak", "smaller peak" and "final peak" don't exist, you get my idea...

    ... so we had 1.5 months of PhaelixWW inventing irrelevant things and claiming I said something I didn't say and me calling PhaelixWW a liar for that. What a joke indeed. After a while I decided to stop wasting my time, take a break from MMOC and come back later.

    And guess what I see, people are still debating mask wearing here. :|
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  13. #20473
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Continent of Orsterra
    Posts
    10,020
    Masks are not a perfect defense against the virus. You also need to wear glasses to prevent a sneeze getting in your eyes and with it the virus.

  14. #20474
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    And guess what I see, people are still debating mask wearing here. :|
    Yup, gotta debate something, it might as well be overkill blanket orders. :P

  15. #20475
    Merely a Setback JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    26,615
    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    And you know what to do right? All countries in the world got this problem but we got our savior right here...
    Somehow New Zealand, Vietnam and Cuba do have it figured out.. somehow LA, the US and Europe are doing far worse than than east asia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Masks are not a perfect defense against the virus. You also need to wear glasses to prevent a sneeze getting in your eyes and with it the virus.
    If all people where masks the infection rate goes down by more than 98%.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    There’s always a lot of talk of a general strike on the left. But it’s mostly a syndicalist fantasy that “the workers” are going to rise up, which is disconnected from the fact that “the workers” are your racist uncle and jerk co-workers who you don’t like.
    Just your typical neo-liberal horseshit.

  16. #20476
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Somehow New Zealand, Vietnam and Cuba do have it figured out.. somehow LA, the US and Europe are doing far worse than than east asia.
    You somehow "forgot" S. Korea, Singapore and Taiwan in that list.

    Of them, I would say that Vietnam and Singapore are the most interesting cases to study, as the other countries almost lack land borders, which makes it easier to contain the situation.

    Note that other countries in the region like Indonesia and Malaysia seem to struggle.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    If all people where masks the infection rate goes down by more than 98%.
    I don't see anything supporting that number, and unless you provide reliable evidence you are spreading dangerous dis-information.

    The reason is that it creates exactly the false safety that WHO warns against - if you think you are almost safe while wearing a mask you are likely to not physically distancing (even when possible) which increases the rate of infection, possibly a lot more than the mask in itself possibly lowered it.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-10-31 at 10:12 AM.

  17. #20477
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Washington (né California)
    Posts
    4,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Yeah. Much pointless noise over a small simple statement. Back when daily cases looked like in the picture below, I said "it seems the world as a whole has peaked".



    Surely looks like a peak to me, how about you? As later events showed, it wasn't the peak, but it's undeniable that it's a peak. I was a bit surprised when PhaelixWW vehemently attacked my little harmless post - at that point I still believed PhaelixWW was an honest poster, so instead of dismissing him outright like I would with a more obvious troll, I gave several honest replies to him and other posters...
    Let's roll the tape, shall we?
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    It seems the world as a whole has peaked.
    The world as a whole has not peaked.
    My, my, my. Well, that hardly seems to be the "vehement attack" you were characterizing, does it?

    I mean, it's hilarious that you're talking about honesty when you're afraid to show the full picture:



    There is indeed a person with an honesty issue in this discussion, and it ain't me.

    Also, for bonus points, here's what the person you quoted in your last post said about your "little harmless post":
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    It seems the world as a whole has peaked.
    Stop talking shit dude. You come here every couple of weeks with these wishy washy nonsensical statements. The briefest look at any statistics will tell you its far from peaked. Are you trying to fool yourself or others with this bullshit?
    Just because someone is tired of the two of us going back and forth on such a ridiculous debate doesn't mean they think your position had merit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    ...data showed that instead of an actual peak we had Twin Peaks, and instead of a decline we had a generally flat, somewhat fluctuating period.
    In order for something to be referred to as "twin peaks", it must be either the peaks of two separate mountains/hills (ie, waves in an infection graph), or two summits on the same mountain at the relatively same height separated by a saddle. The term does not apply to anything other than summits. You can't have a peak, let alone twin peaks, on the sloping side of a mountain. This should be obvious to everyone simply based upon the definition of the word "peak".


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    I said all that in August. Now that enough time has passed, everyone with a brain can see my assessment was largely correct (I didn't expect the ongoing rise to dwarf the summer peaks that much though).
    Does anyone reading this, anyone at all, think that Cynep's assessment was largely correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    But PhaelixWW just had to prove me wrong, and since all I said was a few simple undeniable facts while PhaelixWW's attacks originated from some fictional universe in which there's only one peak, TV show "Twin Peaks" never existed, expressions "next peak", "smaller peak" and "final peak" don't exist, you get my idea...
    Your statement was eminently deniable, it wasn't a fact, and yes, I will call out things when they're wrong and back it up with proof if need be. Also, "twin peaks" was addressed above, and "next", "smaller", and "final" can absolutely be used to describe different peaks of different mountains, just like they can describe aspects of different waves of an infection graph.

    Strawman harder.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    ... so we had 1.5 months of PhaelixWW inventing irrelevant things and claiming I said something I didn't say and me calling PhaelixWW a liar for that. What a joke indeed.
    Your refusal to simply own up to the wildly wrong statement is the only joke here; I'm not sure anyone's really laughing, though.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  18. #20478
    Banned cspropertyservices's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    733 Cambridge Ave Aberdeen, MD 21001
    Posts
    1

    Unhappy

    I try not to worry much when thinking of COVID-19, but one fear always creeps in.

  19. #20479
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arkon-III
    Posts
    19,358
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Just because someone is tired of the two of us going back and forth on such a ridiculous debate doesn't mean they think your position had merit.
    I still think you two need to get a room and duke this out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Does anyone reading this, anyone at all, think that Cynep's assessment was largely correct?
    It was a momentary peak.
    I never saw the point of taking note of it, when < 10% of the population had been infected at the time, the numbers could only go one way anyway: UP.

    *shrug*
    The debate between you two had some entertainment value but to be honest at some point, you need to acknowledge that the other party won't budge and give it a rest. The facts had been stated, the numbers spoke/speak for themselves, whether one or more parties acknowledge their mistake won't make any difference to the situation at hand.

  20. #20480
    Possible national lockdown coming for the UK again.

    inb4 we do go that way, but it is still all half-assed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •