1. #20921
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Speaking as one of those groups and remembering all the blind and deaf people from the malaria treatments... I hope they make them voluntary. I believe in vaccinations but I'm in zero rush to test out a untried batch for a virus with a lower kill rate then the seasonal flu.
    And this is why, even with a 90% efficacy rate, I'm gonna continue wearing masks for, well maybe till I die, because of the willful ignorance of people like this.

  2. #20922
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    And this is why, even with a 90% efficacy rate, I'm gonna continue wearing masks for, well maybe till I die, because of the willful ignorance of people like this.
    Remember when mouth breather was an insult? We might want to bring it back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Speaking as one of those groups and remembering all the blind and deaf people from the malaria treatments...
    Do you have a link, before I report this for misinformation?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
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  3. #20923
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Remember when mouth breather was an insult? We might want to bring it back...

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    Do you have a link, before I report this for misinformation?
    I mean you can google it. It's not an uncommon side effect for the treatment of it now. I believe in vaccines but I don't believe in being a part of the first wave of vaccines.

  4. #20924
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean you can google it. It's not an uncommon side effect for the treatment of it now. I believe in vaccines but I don't believe in being a part of the first wave of vaccines.
    I did... The only thing I found was side effects of the disease it self, matching the description. It’s the first thing I did... No links? Report button it is?

    I’m not assuming anything here... I googled, found nothing... so... what am I supposed to do, just trust you?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  5. #20925

  6. #20926
    So can we expect another lockdown and shut down of airports in January? When can we realistically at this point expect the US/Mexico border to finally reopen? Summer 2021?

  7. #20927
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So can we expect another lockdown and shut down of airports in January? When can we realistically at this point expect the US/Mexico border to finally reopen? Summer 2021?
    I’m hoping April...
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  8. #20928
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Speaking as one of those groups and remembering all the blind and deaf people from the malaria treatments... I hope they make them voluntary. I believe in vaccinations but I'm in zero rush to test out a untried batch for a virus with a lower kill rate then the seasonal flu.
    Yeah thinking of the Narcolepsy cases from the 2009 Swine Flu vaccination.. I'm in no rush either.
    I will get it eventually (working in a school it may even be mandated by my employer) but I leave playing guinea pig to s/o else. I have enough health problems as is.

  9. #20929
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Speaking as one of those groups and remembering all the blind and deaf people from the malaria treatments... I hope they make them voluntary.
    I don't see how that is true or comparable: malaria is not caused by a virus, treatments and prophylaxis are different from vaccines (there is one malaria vaccine - but it is so ineffective that WHO does not really recommend it), and the common side-effects are more along the lines of hallucinations (so seeing things that aren't there - not really blind), and depressions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I believe in vaccinations but I'm in zero rush to test out a untried batch for a virus with a lower kill rate then the seasonal flu.
    It may depend on how you count "kill rate" - covid-19 is in absolute numbers clearly killing more than the seasonal flu; but it may be that with improved treatment the ifr is similar or lower than for some seasonal flus. However, it's unclear if we could have reduced flu deaths in a similar way - but haven't bothered.

  10. #20930
    Hmf...don't wait too long.
    Because when everyone starts getting vaccinated they'll be burning their masks.

  11. #20931
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Hmf...don't wait too long.
    Because when everyone starts getting vaccinated they'll be burning their masks.
    Idk what regs will be on Base (they’re very strict regarding masks and sanitizing before entering any building), regardless, I’ll be wearing one most of next year, if not all. I’ll definitely be wearing one next winter, for flu season alone.

    I actually hope Americans adopt wearing masks more often.
    Last edited by Winter Blossom; 2020-11-29 at 05:59 PM.
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  12. #20932
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I actually hope Americans adopt wearing masks more often.
    That's a forlorn hope at best.
    Before March I never saw anyone wearing a mask.

  13. #20933
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    I don't blame people who aren't part of any risk group for being more afraid of an insufficiently and hastily tested vaccine than a virus that has a << 1% chance to kill them.
    Where is the logic in that? This reeks of the same ignorance. So a virus that can fuck you up even if you are in the right age and health, killed 1.4 Million to date, kills you family your old relatives ,is a less threat than a few fucking stupid side effects as shown in the actual fucking research ?
    I think some people locked themselves in weird bubbles and don't understand the danger of the virus. Hospitals are full everywhere and people die because they don't have access to ICUs but wait don't dare to get vaccinated. The reported side effects like head aches for 2 days are something extremely rough. We should stay unvaccinated and kill more people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    a virus with a lower kill rate then the seasonal flu.
    Let me guess. You also get your news and these kind of "stats" from Facebook ?

  14. #20934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Where is the logic in that? This reeks of the same ignorance. So a virus that can fuck you up even if you are in the right age and health, killed 1.4 Million to date, kills you family your old relatives ,is a less threat than a few fucking stupid side effects as shown in the actual fucking research ?
    Research done on tiny sample sizes in way shorter a timeframe than is usually taken for the development, yes. That's precisely what worries me.
    On top of that RNA based vaccination is a new and unproven technology.

    Lets wait till a few million people are actually subjected to these vaccines until we talk about "a few fucking stupid side effects". I sincerely hope this doesn't blow up in our faces.

    Yeah, any virus can fuck you up. So can the flu, most people never gave a hoot and flu vaccination with it's low efficiency rating was controversial.

  15. #20935
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Where is the logic in that? This reeks of the same ignorance. So a virus that can fuck you up even if you are in the right age and health, killed 1.4 Million to date, kills you family your old relatives ,is a less threat than a few fucking stupid side effects as shown in the actual fucking research ?
    People seem way to trusting of arbitrary numbers given with too high precision.
    The research studies aren't complete (their planned completion is in 2022) so we don't know if there are any long term effects, and we mostly have seen press releases with questionable analysis with a sparkling of data dredging.
    Similarly it's likely that perhaps 2-3 million have died of the virus, whereas 1.4 million are just the reported cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Hospitals are full everywhere and people die because they don't have access to ICUs but wait don't dare to get vaccinated.
    Hospitals are working hard - but they are not full in most places, and just looking at ICU is too simple as one of interesting lessons that medical experts have figured out is to be able to treat people in better ways without sending them to ICUs.

  16. #20936
    With a relatively small supply of vaccines being prepared for delivery within the US as early as the middle of December, necessarily difficult questions about prioritization have become front and center.

    I feel very strongly that if you have tested positive for COVID, you should be in the lowest priority group. This isn't punitive---although I admit I do struggle with feelings of resentment towards people who are still catching this disease, as illogical as that is. Rather, it is smart public health policy: There are two goals,

    1) minimize the number of deaths due to COVID, and
    2) minimize the amount of time it takes to squelch the pandemic.

    These goals are not at odds, but they do suggest different strategies. The first suggests we prioritize those that have the greatest risk of dying. The second suggests immunizing those at the greatest risk of contracting the disease. If you have had COVID, you very likely have at least partial immunity, at least in the short term. A vaccine given to someone who has had the disease leaves a susceptible person open to contracting it for the first time. So to you I say, back of the line.

    I can't find anyone discussing prior infection as a prioritization criterion, which has me very concerned that we will unnecessarily prolong the epidemic as we wait for enough vaccine production to cover the entire population.

  17. #20937
    Quote Originally Posted by Eviscero View Post
    I can't find anyone discussing prior infection as a prioritization criterion, which has me very concerned that we will unnecessarily prolong the epidemic as we wait for enough vaccine production to cover the entire population.
    It will not cause a big delay - the number of previously infected is perhaps 20% at most, so it would only prolong it by perhaps 20%.

    Additionally most of them haven't been tested, the test-percentage is at most 5% in "large" countries, so it will in practice only prolong it by 5% if we want something reliable.

  18. #20938
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Research done on tiny sample sizes in way shorter a timeframe than is usually taken for the development, yes. That's precisely what worries me.
    On top of that RNA based vaccination is a new and unproven technology.

    Lets wait till a few million people are actually subjected to these vaccines until we talk about "a few fucking stupid side effects". I sincerely hope this doesn't blow up in our faces.

    Yeah, any virus can fuck you up. So can the flu, most people never gave a hoot and flu vaccination with it's low efficiency rating was controversial.
    Wow. This is on the same level of ignorance as anti mask and anti vacc loonies.
    New unproven technology. Sounds spooky. Maybe Bill Gates does want to put chips in our asses after all.
    And the absolutely deranged statement of "hey its just like a flu" except it kills way more people and spreads way easier. Just a flu bro.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    People seem way to trusting of arbitrary numbers given with too high precision.
    The research studies aren't complete (their planned completion is in 2022) so we don't know if there are any long term effects, and we mostly have seen press releases with questionable analysis with a sparkling of data dredging.
    Similarly it's likely that perhaps 2-3 million have died of the virus, whereas 1.4 million are just the reported cases.
    Yeah. Wait until 2022 for the "complete research". Its just a flu bro . Let more millions die until all the Karens are absolutely sure there is no side effect.
    Oh yeah that thing some "scientific" bullshit that said that a certain percent of the population needs to be vaccinated to end pandemic, fuck it. Don't trust those sneaky scientists with all their confusing numbers and shit.

  19. #20939
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Yeah. Wait until 2022 for the "complete research".
    That's the official end date of the current phase III trials (as far as I recall - might be later), and it's not scientifically accurate to claim that the vaccines are free from serious side effects before that. That shouldn't stop us from acting - but we shouldn't claim we know things we don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Oh yeah that thing some "scientific" bullshit that said that a certain percent of the population needs to be vaccinated to end pandemic, fuck it. Don't trust those sneaky scientists with all their confusing numbers and shit.
    Not all numbers allegedly from scientists are accurate, e.g. several of the efficiency numbers (not clear if from scientists or from press releases) seem questionable. There are other scientists checking them - but most of them seem good enough; even if the exact numbers are unclear.

  20. #20940
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dr-...mp-coronavirus

    Scott Atlas is gone, his limited time in government expired.

    And America got just a little bit safer with one less lunatic dismissing the virus and encouraging Americans engage in risky behaviors.

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