1. #20941
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Wow. This is on the same level of ignorance as anti mask and anti vacc loonies.
    New unproven technology. Sounds spooky.
    You're cute.

    But even you have to admit that this is the first RNA based vaccine we are attempting on a large scale (prior attempts never got approved). So yes: it essentially is a new and yet to be proven technology. Maybe it will turn out to be a boon, maybe not. The fact is: we do not know. Shortening development times from 5-8 years down to <1 year IS worrying, no matter how you put it. There are reasons why we test vaccines as extensively as we do before we administer them to millions (or in this case billions) of people.

  2. #20942
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    You're cute.

    But even you have to admit that this is the first RNA based vaccine we are attempting on a large scale (prior attempts never got approved). So yes: it essentially is a new and yet to be proven technology. Maybe it will turn out to be a boon, maybe not. The fact is: we do not know. Shortening development times from 5-8 years down to <1 year IS worrying, no matter how you put it. There are reasons why we test vaccines as extensively as we do before we administer them to millions (or in this case billions) of people.
    In the interest of time for COVID-19, instead of searching for a new treatment, scientists have opted to test treatments that have already been approved for other diseases or have been tested in humans. By starting with a treatment that has been tested extensively in humans, researchers can take advantage of the years of research, preclinical trials and early phase safety trials that have already been conducted on these drugs to move quickly into human patients.

    Link: https://www.massgeneral.org/news/cor...us/vaccine-faq
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  3. #20943
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    In the interest of time for COVID-19, instead of searching for a new treatment, scientists have opted to test treatments that have already been approved for other diseases or have been tested in humans. By starting with a treatment that has been tested extensively in humans, researchers can take advantage of the years of research, preclinical trials and early phase safety trials that have already been conducted on these drugs to move quickly into human patients.

    Link: https://www.massgeneral.org/news/cor...us/vaccine-faq
    Please quote it in it's entirety:

    Quote Originally Posted by https://mgriblog.org/2020/06/03/a-guide-to-understanding-clinical-trials-part-1-what-they-are-and-how-they-work/
    How have clinical trials for COVID-19 been moving so quickly?
    In the interest of time for COVID-19, instead of searching for a new treatment, scientists have opted to test treatments that have already been approved for other diseases or have been tested in humans. Some of the first medications to be tested were remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine, two antiviral medications that were developed for Ebola and malaria, respectively.

    By starting with a treatment that has been tested extensively in humans, researchers can take advantage of the years of research, preclinical trials and early phase safety trials that have already been conducted on these drugs to move quickly into human patients.
    While the results from these early clinical trials have generated lots of media attention and it’s understandable that people are eager for good news—it’s important to look past the headlines and into the details of the trial itself.
    This does not talk about mRNA based vaccination. It talks about treatments for the disease. Indeed, they did experiment with known treatments for other illnesses.

    Q. What is Mass General doing to develop a treatment or vaccine for COVID-19?
    A: A team from the Vaccine and Immunotherapy Center (VIC) is using a VaxCelerate platform that was designed to quickly develop vaccines in response to emerging infectious diseases to test new vaccine strategies. Mass General is also collaborating with Mass Eye and Ear to test a new gene-therapy based vaccine, and the Ragon Institute of MGH, MIT and Harvard is developing a vaccine candidate with support from the Massachusetts Consortium on Pathogen Readiness.
    Even your own article admits that the gene-therapy based vaccine is a new approach.

    Keep in mind: I am not bashing the technology or anything.
    I sincerely hope that vaccines like that work, because they may open up further possibilities beyond SARS-CoV-2.

    I'm merely distrustful of the current, panic driven "ad-hoc" approach, riddled with shortcuts in the testing process.

  4. #20944
    Look at it this way; what happens if one of these vaccines prove to be a failure in some way? Think of the repercussions for the pharmaceutical company in question. It's in their best interest to keep "you" alive and healthy.

  5. #20945
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Look at it this way; what happens if one of these vaccines prove to be a failure in some way? Think of the repercussions for the pharmaceutical company in question. It's in their best interest to keep "you" alive and healthy.
    Alive: yes. Healthy: God no.
    Enough evidence to the contrary, this wouldn't be the first scandal involving big pharma.

  6. #20946
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Please quote it in it's entirety:



    This does not talk about mRNA based vaccination. It talks about treatments for the disease. Indeed, they did experiment with known treatments for other illnesses.



    Even your own article admits that the gene-therapy based vaccine is a new approach.

    Keep in mind: I am not bashing the technology or anything.
    I sincerely hope that vaccines like that work, because they may open up further possibilities beyond SARS-CoV-2.

    I'm merely distrustful of the current, panic driven "ad-hoc" approach, riddled with shortcuts in the testing process.
    Here’s another article, if you’re still paranoid:

    Link: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/30/...ccine-so-fast/

    - - - Updated - - -

    And another:

    Link: https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/expl...eed/index.html
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  7. #20947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Here’s another article, if you’re still paranoid:

    Link: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/30/...ccine-so-fast/
    The article just re-states what I have been saying: production of mRNA based vaccines is a new technological process. *shrug*

    Has nothing to do with paranoia at all. I'm open for it to be awesome but I am also aware that it could be horrible.
    Right now: only more trials, larger sample sizes and time will tell.

  8. #20948
    Considering age and personal issues I can understand the caution.
    I've said it before that I'd be willing to give it a go myself as a test subject were such testing nearby.
    At this point however we're all about to find out. (Odds are good)

  9. #20949
    So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

    Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.

  10. #20950
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

    Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.
    Not a comment on lockdowns (I'm for them if well thought out), and looks like Australia did a good job overall, but you have to remember recession is defined as 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth and so not the best tool to see an overall picture.

    All countries will exit recession this quarter as the downturn was so big, that any form of growth on that will be enough. Extreme example if GDP dropped 1% Q1, 50%Q2 (lockdown) and then goes back up 1% Q3 (and so is still down 50% overall) it will technically no longer be a recession.

  11. #20951
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).

    Take at your own risk.

    https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/crimi...-within-weeks/
    https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfiz...ory?id=8477617
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-...ployee-claims/

  12. #20952
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).

    Take at your own risk.

    https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/crimi...-within-weeks/
    https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfiz...ory?id=8477617
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-...ployee-claims/
    So, antivaxxer bullshit? Pass.

  13. #20953
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).
    So many errors in one sentence.

    It's not a CCP virus, the virus is called Sars-Cov-2 and the disease Covid-19, and it was first discovered in China; although it's a bit unclear if it originated there.
    The vaccine was not created by Pfizer, but primarily by BioNTech in Germany; and I don't see how Pfizer pushing other drugs too much in the US has any relevance for this vaccine.

    There might be risks - but for people 70+ the advantages seem to outweigh the potential disadvantages.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-12-02 at 03:34 PM.

  14. #20954
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

    Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.
    Just a bit of devil's advocate here, but Australia has an easier time preventing incoming vectors than most other countries with many more points of entry.

    That's not the diminish what you've accomplished, but it's not a directly translatable situation.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  15. #20955
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    So many errors in one sentence.

    It's not a CCP virus, the virus is called Sars-Cov-2 and the disease Covid-19, and it was first discovered in China; although it's a bit unclear if it originated there.
    The vaccine was not created by Pfizer, but primarily by BioNTech in Germany; and I don't see how Pfizer pushing other drugs too much in the US has any relevance for this vaccine.

    There might be risks - but for people 70+ the advantages seem to outweigh the potential disadvantages.
    CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).

    Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.

  16. #20956
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).
    Other countries could have used their power to stop travel too.

    And there's no evidence that it was created or spread intentionally, and every investigation I've seen thus far comes to that same conclusion. Stop spreading this xenophobic nonsense. The CCP is garbage. What they're doing to many of their people is garbage. That doesn't mean they're behind the intentional spread of a virus that harmed their own economy as well. Why on earth release a virus that's going to disrupt their own economy both on the front and back ends of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.
    It will likely do the same thing it did to the people who went through the vaccine trials.

  17. #20957
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.
    If the vaccine is 99% safe it would actually be more dangerous than the virus to younger age groups lol.
    You can try again with 99.9% safety.

  18. #20958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).

    Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberth...ases-in-china/

    So are you going to call it the America virus now?

  19. #20959
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberth...ases-in-china/

    So are you going to call it the America virus now?
    This is propaganda.
    It 1.st came to Italy and then spread. Everyone who followed news knew that. It has shown in america much later (belive me or not i would love to bash american politicans for this, but i cant). Heck i called for my country bourder to be closed, but it was to late after.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...=1606943471038

    Here is anti-one:
    https://spectator.org/ccp-who-covid-...blican-report/

    Remember W.H.O. also deserves a bit bashing, well at least those responsible for that. They pretty much ignored Taiwan when they reported a spread. (due to ccp pressure)

  20. #20960
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    This is propaganda.
    From the CDC and American Red Cross?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    It 1.st came to Italy and then spread.
    Is what we knew. This study presents evidence that it came to the US before it exploded in Italy, or the US for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Everyone who followed news knew that.
    Because that's what we knew at the time. Should new evidence be ignored to preserve existing beliefs?

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