1. #20961
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    If the vaccine is 99% safe it would actually be more dangerous than the virus to younger age groups lol.
    You can try again with 99.9% safety.
    well they have not actually said how safe it is but so far it has not killed anyone so technically its running @ 100% "safe"

    i highly doubt the vaccine will kill anywhere near 2,000 people a day...or even 2....
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
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  2. #20962
    And Putin today announced that their vaccine should be used at the end of the next week. Straight after UK's announcement. Gee, what a coincidence xD
    Not set in stone, but I smell PR case regardless.
    @Edge - can antivaxers be simply banned right away? From time to time someone arrives at the thread, puts a big pile of crap, then argues and leaves. There is not much point discussing with them, just like with flatearthers and other wierdos.
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    Take that haters.
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  3. #20963
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).
    There's nothing indicating that they spread it on purpose, and the failure of most other countries show that it isn't easy to contain it - even when we know what it is, which they didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.
    More than 20,000 have gotten the new vaccine (and similar numbers the placebo) in the trials; and there doesn't seem to be any serious side-effects in either of them. That means that both the vaccine and the placebo are more than 99.9% safe.

    The vaccine reduces the risk of infection - by roughly 90% (perhaps 85 to 93% or so; haven't looked at the math); if taken correctly etc; compared to the placebo.

  4. #20964
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    An interesting article hypothesizing about what would happen if you mix and match the different vaccines, drawing on our knowledge of other diseases where we have different vaccines available.

    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...erent-vaccines

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  5. #20965
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    i highly doubt the vaccine will kill anywhere near 2,000 people a day...or even 2....
    You do not know that. You only know that if you inject millions of people. Also, keep in mind I am talking about young age groups.
    I seriously doubt the 2K figure too, if it were that problematic, even the small sample sizes in the trials would reveal that.

    Though even if it was 99.99% safe, it would still kill 100 people per million inoculated. That would be 32.000 dead Americans if you vaccinate your entire population.
    So you see that the 99% figure I responded to was pretty ridiculous.

  6. #20966
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    You do not know that. You only know that if you inject millions of people. Also, keep in mind I am talking about young age groups.
    I seriously doubt the 2K figure too, if it were that problematic, even the small sample sizes in the trials would reveal that.

    Though even if it was 99.99% safe, it would still kill 100 people per million inoculated. That would be 32.000 dead Americans if you vaccinate your entire population.
    So you see that the 99% figure I responded to was pretty ridiculous.
    I agree.
    Just to clarify that the current safety (assuming there are no late-appearing severe side-effects) is at least 99.985% (with 95% confidence).
    Efficacy in the study seems to be around 90%.

    In practice the safety and effectiveness might be lower (due to changes in production, transportation, adjuvants, needles, etc); we need to check that as well.

  7. #20967
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    And Putin today announced that their vaccine should be used at the end of the next week. Straight after UK's announcement. Gee, what a coincidence xD
    Not set in stone, but I smell PR case regardless.
    @Edge - can antivaxers be simply banned right away? From time to time someone arrives at the thread, puts a big pile of crap, then argues and leaves. There is not much point discussing with them, just like with flatearthers and other wierdos.
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.

    Israel says western rejection of vaccine is purely political, not scientific n they want it as well. As do many countries. Then there's the fact that western ones are overpriced, cashing in on humanity's misery. Even on the gates of doom, still need to make some extra dollars, yo!

  8. #20968
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    This is propaganda.
    It 1.st came to Italy and then spread. Everyone who followed news knew that. It has shown in america much later (belive me or not i would love to bash american politicans for this, but i cant). Heck i called for my country bourder to be closed, but it was to late after.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...=1606943471038

    Here is anti-one:
    https://spectator.org/ccp-who-covid-...blican-report/

    Remember W.H.O. also deserves a bit bashing, well at least those responsible for that. They pretty much ignored Taiwan when they reported a spread. (due to ccp pressure)
    No the only people to blame are the leaders who killed their citizens because they refused to follow basic scientific advice

  9. #20969
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.
    If you had been following the news you would have seen conflicting statements regarding the Russian vaccine, including that it was already approved to be used months ago (it was only approved for phase III trial).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Israel says western rejection of vaccine is purely political, not scientific n they want it as well. As do many countries. Then there's the fact that western ones are overpriced, cashing in on humanity's misery. Even on the gates of doom, still need to make some extra dollars, yo!
    Except Russia is doing political things as well, and is in for a buck as well.
    Making the announcement when only 70 persons had become ill as for Pfizer/BioNTech was a bit unreliable - Russia did it after 20, and we don't know how reliable the results are, as Russia have shown that their statements cannot be trust.

    For a long time Russia maintained that all cases were import cases and no-one had died from it (just accidentally due to another disease or jumping out a window), while requiring taxi drivers to disinfect cars regularly etc.

    The Russian vaccine is also expensive for the technology involved.
    Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines use mRNA which is new technology and the cost close to 20$ per dose (depending on discounts during the pandemic and negotiating tactics). Astra-Zeneca and the Russian vaccine use an older technology (putting it inside a harmless virus); Astra-Zeneca plans to charge 3$ per dose (their cost) - and Russia 10$ per dose.
    Now you might say that the Astra-Zeneca vaccine isn't that good - but we don't have reliable indicators that the Russian one is better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberth...ases-in-china/

    So are you going to call it the America virus now?
    That changes nothing, as we know it was in China earlier - just not known at the time.
    It does, however, show that the travel bans were fairly ineffective, as they were too late - as usual.

    The more intriguing is https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...claim-12133825 - since it could indicate that the virus started somewhere else (and likely improved at some point; otherwise it makes no sense). However, I don't know how that works together with the gene-trees - which obviously is complicated by the fact that Italy has been really bad at PCR-testing of cases; so they are largely absent from gene-trees.

    So, perhaps Italian virus, but not American.

  10. #20970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.

    Israel says western rejection of vaccine is purely political, not scientific n they want it as well. As do many countries. Then there's the fact that western ones are overpriced, cashing in on humanity's misery. Even on the gates of doom, still need to make some extra dollars, yo!
    3 Russian covid doctors mysteriously fell out of windows, as Russia was trying to cover up it’s impact. 3 of the 42 healthcare workers that took the Russian vaccine in Serbia, have now tested positive for Covid. But, you want to talk about financial conspiracy?
    As above, so below.
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  11. #20971
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.

    Israel says western rejection of vaccine is purely political, not scientific n they want it as well. As do many countries. Then there's the fact that western ones are overpriced, cashing in on humanity's misery. Even on the gates of doom, still need to make some extra dollars, yo!
    So they say. There are what, 150 vaccines in testing? Multiple countries have multiple vaccines each. You really wanna argue about which one was "created first", when there are like days between them? xD
    And Russia's response to Covid itself has been crap and full of politics. Including giving troll factories a new task - shitting on Europe's response to deflect instead of spending money to buy enough PPE for medics.

    Also, Israel? You sure you wanna talk about the Bibi's goverment and things not being political? I have a feeling Gaidax would have a good laugh.
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  12. #20972
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.
    As near as I can tell, the first one designed and produced was the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine. The difference in approval timelines is strictly a result of the differences in regulatory bodies in the country. The BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine had the first clinical trials though.

    That's not a negative critique of the Russian or Chinese ones, they may work just fine. This isn't all that complicated of a virus from an immunologic perspective.

  13. #20973
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Russian vaccine is first vaccine created in the world. If u had been following news you would have known it was coming out this month. End of the year is a repeated sentence for months.

    Israel says western rejection of vaccine is purely political, not scientific n they want it as well. As do many countries. Then there's the fact that western ones are overpriced, cashing in on humanity's misery. Even on the gates of doom, still need to make some extra dollars, yo!
    Nah, nobody actually wants that crap. If they're really lucky it is just a placebo that doesn't do anything, but most likely it is really some nasty shit that is going to kill or maim a whole bunch of people.

  14. #20974
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Hey, how is Oklahoma doing?

    Gov. Kevin Stitt declares statewide day of prayer and fasting in response to COVID-19 crisis

    <Every facepalm meme in existence>

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  15. #20975
    Meanwhile in Estonia...

    We get more and more infected people, this week there was another record high at 524 infections, followed by 2 days of 400+ infections (and much higher than previous record). Those numbers might seem low, but do remember that country's population is just above 1 million and these numbers are super high compared to numbers in spring. Our government is afraid to lock down stuff because it might damage economy (as if anyone cares about economy of Estonia - another small handout from EU or NATO would cover all losses).

    Meanwhile in north-east region people didn't believe in virus, now they have highest number of infections per capita. On opposite side on Saaremaa this weekend someone decided it would be great idea for a weekend long birthday celebration with 250 guests and everyone there was ok with it. In south in Tartu people are filing lawsuits against order to wear masks. Stupidity all around.
    Quote to sum up politics:
    At this point, the US is just seen as a huge Karen internationally.

  16. #20976
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdiocracyIsReal View Post
    Meanwhile in Estonia...

    We get more and more infected people, this week there was another record high at 524 infections, followed by 2 days of 400+ infections (and much higher than previous record). Those numbers might seem low, but do remember that country's population is just above 1 million and these numbers are super high compared to numbers in spring. Our government is afraid to lock down stuff because it might damage economy (as if anyone cares about economy of Estonia - another small handout from EU or NATO would cover all losses).

    Meanwhile in north-east region people didn't believe in virus, now they have highest number of infections per capita. On opposite side on Saaremaa this weekend someone decided it would be great idea for a weekend long birthday celebration with 250 guests and everyone there was ok with it. In south in Tartu people are filing lawsuits against order to wear masks. Stupidity all around.
    Oh here is gona be even more fun. They are planing to open up a shops before xmas....and we are still on no moving from city to city order.

  17. #20977
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Oh here is gona be even more fun. They are planing to open up a shops before xmas....and we are still on no moving from city to city order.
    I mean it's already here... unless you are willing to weld bars onto peoples homes for a month you are not going to stop a infectious disease were the majority wont show symptoms and those who do will take two weeks to manifest.

    There isn't a point to prevention at this stage it's like manning the walls after the fort has fallen.

    Those at risk should limit contact with others as much as possible but rushing a vaccine and giving the producers of it protection from damages it could cause and trying a half assed lock out isn't going to do any good compared to the harm.

  18. #20978
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean it's already here... unless you are willing to weld bars onto peoples homes for a month you are not going to stop a infectious disease were the majority wont show symptoms and those who do will take two weeks to manifest.

    There isn't a point to prevention at this stage it's like manning the walls after the fort has fallen.

    Those at risk should limit contact with others as much as possible but rushing a vaccine and giving the producers of it protection from damages it could cause and trying a half assed lock out isn't going to do any good compared to the harm.
    I don't understand how people can be so scientifically illiterate and yet be so boastful about their lack of education.

    The average incubation time is nowhere near two weeks; two weeks is the outside, extreme value. And there's always a point to prevention, as even slowing the spread can save countless lives even if you can't stop the spread entirely.

    Literally every single health care professional says this.

    It's like you're literally trying to recommend sociopathy instead of science.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  19. #20979
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Oh here is gona be even more fun. They are planing to open up a shops before xmas....and we are still on no moving from city to city order.
    Here shops aren't closed. They were closed in spring, but this time they are all open. Masks are mandatory, but many aren't wearing them and it cannot be enforced.

    Yesterday government issued a requirement for shops to not allow more visitors than 50% shop's capacity, but of course it is not enforceable and nobody checks. Also there was something about bars closing at night or something like that - nonsense that doesn't affect anything, but makes it look like government is doing something, while number of infections are climbing fast and hospitals warned that next week they'll have to stop all other work in order to deal with huge number of covid patients.

    Leftists opposition, who in spring whined about lockdown, are now more concerned about preventing upcoming referendum on gay marriage than doing anything about virus. Because screw people - gay marriage is what really matters. Considering that Russian minorities aren't even allowed to vote (in Estonia there are 2 types of passports: with and without voting rights), leftists that blame everything on Russians (leftists here are also mostly nationalists) shouldn't be afraid, but they are. Right wing shitheads, who are part of ruling coalition, are more concerned about pushing for referendum on gay marriage to prove to leftists that country is not as woke as leftists want everyone to believe. Centrists, who were pushing for lockdown in spring, can't do anything because they need support from other parties, however even they are softer with pushing anything that would damage economy than they were in spring. So neither ruling coalition, nor opposition are doing anything.

    It is a massive (by Estonian standards) shitshow.
    Last edited by MechanoDruid; 2020-12-04 at 05:07 PM.
    Quote to sum up politics:
    At this point, the US is just seen as a huge Karen internationally.

  20. #20980
    https://www.newsweek.com/matt-gaetz-...-covid-1552405

    When a political party politicizes the virus and decides that holding superspreader events in secret is the best path forward. No wonder my country has surpassed 275K deaths and has well over 14M cases and counting.

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