1. #21121
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It is national healthcare, but definitely not free. There is no free national healthcare, it's a myth - you pay one way or another.
    This.
    In Germany, I think we pay some 15% of our income pre tax, meaning you don't pay yourself, it's automatically deducted from your income together with all the taxes.
    Not sure how it works for the peeps that are insured privately.

    You do get access to everything but some procedures like complex dental work are not covered w/o insurance addons you can book in addition to the basic (mandatory) plan. On meds you get a large discount, visiting a doc or a hospital won't cost you (ditto on the appointment shortage though).
    At least it never cost me or my parents extra and I had many an operation.

    Plastic surgery etc. are excluded though.

    Yeah, definitely not free but much better than having to run to a private bank taking on huge loans if sth. were to happen.

  2. #21122
    Quote Originally Posted by Flathet View Post
    No, it isn't.
    Do you think the magic money tree pays for the costs?

  3. #21123
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    WOW, i guess the world has no excuse now that they have an outline to an awesome plan
    s
    Aside from the whole money issues poorer countries have becease cheap vaccines cant be made due to patent laws, you mean.
    Which ofcourse includes terriorites occupied by Isreal.

  4. #21124
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Aside from the whole money issues poorer countries have becease cheap vaccines cant be made due to patent laws, you mean.
    This isn’t true... why does vaccines being cheaper, mater when you have no money? Want to take a guess how much Clinton Foundation has spent on vaccines to poorer countries?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #21125
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Aside from the whole money issues poorer countries have becease cheap vaccines cant be made due to patent laws
    That's life.

    Pretty much all economically sound countries splurged a ton on these. At the very least it's a good plan for countries that can afford it. Everyone is so moralistic and chivalrous, but in the end - in this shit seems like it's every country for itself first and foremost.

    Look at them Canada bois go, 400% of their population covered, very nice.

    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-02-04 at 01:25 PM.

  6. #21126
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Aside from the whole money issues poorer countries have becease cheap vaccines cant be made due to patent laws, you mean.
    Which ofcourse includes terriorites occupied by Isreal.
    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...-manufacturing

    Read this pls

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's life.

    Pretty much all economically sound countries splurged a ton on these. At the very least it's a good plan for countries that can afford it. Everyone is so moralistic and chivalrous, but in the end - in this shit seems like it's every country for itself first and foremost.

    Look at them Canada bois go, 400% of their population covered, very nice.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...or-covid-shots

    For some reason Canada isnt vaccinating its populations lol

    US #1

  7. #21127
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipelin...-manufacturing

    Read this pls

    - - - Updated - - -



    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...or-covid-shots

    For some reason Canada isnt vaccinating its populations lol

    US #1
    I did, thanks for not changing my mind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's life.

    Pretty much all economically sound countries splurged a ton on these. At the very least it's a good plan for countries that can afford it. Everyone is so moralistic and chivalrous, but in the end - in this shit seems like it's every country for itself first and foremost.

    Look at them Canada bois go, 400% of their population covered, very nice.

    [IMG]https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/iwqnnm.3Tre0/v1/800x-1.png[IMG]
    A reality that can be changed by changing the laws.

  8. #21128
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    For some reason Canada isnt vaccinating its populations lol

    US #1
    Probably they fudged on deliveries clause for some reason. I know that we here had to do a lot of sacrifices to get this going - from agreeing to share anonymized (hopefully, not holding my breath) patients data with Phizer/WHO and paying extra of vaccine worth.

    Overall there is a fair hope we'll get covered in a couple of months, after all it's free for all now for anyone 16+ yo - so it's really now down to people to get off their asses and get their jabs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    A reality that can be changed by changing the laws.
    Good luck with that, buddeh.

    In the end stronger countries want to keep that advantage, while playing the "we're so righteous and progressive" card. Don't fool yourself by thinking otherwise.

    This pandemic (or any real crisis) show very well how things are. In the end US is US, Israel is Israel and EU is EU (and within EU, Spain does not really give a fuck about Poland, for example when it comes to COVID-19 vaccine). We can all share soppy feelings stories about some emerging economies struggles, but when shit hits the fan - your country comes first.

    You can bet your ass general populace of let's say UK does not really give a fuck about struggles of vaccination in Mozambique or some such right now.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-02-04 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #21129
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Since posting just articles is enough, these explain why it would poorer countries to get rid of patents on the covid vaccine.. we really have no reason to not do this unless you think profits go above human lives.


    https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/e...property-dogma

    Or how about the countries that are pushing for the removal,
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/develop...ts-11605614409

  10. #21130
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    They can remove these patents all they like, in the end they don't have capability to produce these.

    I, personally, don't give a fuck whether whole patent thing remains or not, but it seems like barking at a wrong tree there and in the end even production aside - I do think it's only fair those who created the vaccine (or actually anything) should get the appropriate recognition and $$ it is worth.

    Phizer and others merely get what they deserve to get for doing epic efforts to pull everyone's asses out of this shit. I don't mind them getting that $$.

    Communism does not really work when it comes to progress. China realized it in early 80s.

  11. #21131
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They can remove these patents all they like, in the end they don't have capability to produce these.

    I, personally, don't give a fuck whether whole patent thing remains or not, but it seems like barking at a wrong tree there and in the end even production aside - I do think it's only fair those who created the vaccine (or actually anything) should get the appropriate recognition and $$ it is worth.

    Phizer and others merely get what they deserve to get for doing epic efforts to pull everyone's asses out of this shit. I don't mind them getting that $$.

    Communism does not really work when it comes to progress. China realized it in early 80s.
    Its hillarious reading that article bc India that has the capability is included among the nations that have secured vaccines

    Does India not count as a poor country anymore?

    I am not listening to a 1+ hour long podcast tho so whatever they have to say its whatever, sorry @JohnBrown1917

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55932997

    Canada stealing from poorer countries lmao

  12. #21132
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    Good read, and in addition to the obvious problems of scaling up a new technology like mRNA vaccines (and Pfizer had to stop their plant to upgrade it), it's not even easy to scale up production of older technology like Adeno-virus vaccines as Astra-Zeneca have shown.

    Many of the companies are also producing the vaccines at cost during the pandemic.

    Using the existing chicken-egg infrastructure for flu-vaccines doesn't seem possible due to different receptors.

  13. #21133
    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/u...k-mandate.html

    And the Death Cult Party continues to reject that evidence and advise of experts, repealing a state-wide mask mandate out of spite and for not other reason.

    America will continue to struggle with these Death Cultists, even as the federal response just gets started now that there's a competent team in there.

  14. #21134
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/u...k-mandate.html

    And the Death Cult Party continues to reject that evidence and advise of experts, repealing a state-wide mask mandate out of spite and for not other reason.

    America will continue to struggle with these Death Cultists, even as the federal response just gets started now that there's a competent team in there.
    Let's hope 5g antennas will actually take control of their minds and talk some sense into them ...

  15. #21135
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/u...k-mandate.html

    And the Death Cult Party continues to reject that evidence and advise of experts, repealing a state-wide mask mandate out of spite and for not other reason.

    America will continue to struggle with these Death Cultists, even as the federal response just gets started now that there's a competent team in there.
    Same group of people burn their own things because someone told them the company was bad!!! And some it was not cheap stuff.

    You know after they already paid for it, effecting the companies ZERO POINT ZERO each time.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  16. #21136
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    I've dealt with a shit ton of positive cases over the last two/three weeks (felt like an eternity, people who have been rotated in and out of COVID wards over the past year are superheroes).

    We had an outbreak because someone didn't wear a mask and prevented spread due to masks. Wear your masks people.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  17. #21137
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Good read, and in addition to the obvious problems of scaling up a new technology like mRNA vaccines (and Pfizer had to stop their plant to upgrade it), it's not even easy to scale up production of older technology like Adeno-virus vaccines as Astra-Zeneca have shown.

    Many of the companies are also producing the vaccines at cost during the pandemic.

    Using the existing chicken-egg infrastructure for flu-vaccines doesn't seem possible due to different receptors.
    I mean, you could just let those countries by themselves figure it how to produce those vaccines. What is the harm is letting them do that by getting rid of the patents?

  18. #21138
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I've dealt with a shit ton of positive cases over the last two/three weeks (felt like an eternity, people who have been rotated in and out of COVID wards over the past year are superheroes).

    We had an outbreak because someone didn't wear a mask and prevented spread due to masks. Wear your masks people.
    This is just disgusting. You guys are busting you asses, and some assholes can't wear a mask occasionally to protect others and help make things a bit less painful.
    The worst thing is even when people are vaccinated and covid subsides, it will still be a nightmare for you because you have a backlog of procedures postponed due to it ...
    Thanks for what you are doing.

  19. #21139
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    I mean, you could just let those countries by themselves figure it how to produce those vaccines. What is the harm is letting them do that by getting rid of the patents?
    Telling developing countries to "figure out how to produce new vaccines on their own" is totally bonkers worthy of the worst kind of drag-yourself-by-the-bootstraps-capitalist, or communist dictatorship.

    The reasons are that it will take too long (companies with experience have problems doing it quickly), there's likely to quality problems (as we have seen with the existing ones) - and it's likely that some of those issues will not be detected in time resulting in less effective vaccines.

    What good capitalist do, like Carlo Slim in Mexico, is to sponsor a vaccine factory in Mexico for AstraZeneca vaccine (in partnership with AZ instead of "figuring it out themselves" - remember that they produce the vaccine at cost)
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...-latin-america
    (The AstraZeneca vaccine does have some issues, but there are benefits for developing countries in terms of cost and avoiding complicated cold chains.)

    And more fundamentally - even if vaccine for covid-19 matters, there are a number of other vaccines that are more urgent for developing countries as covid-19 is mostly a old person killer.
    Thus other vaccines are at least as important, so a general vaccine alliance like, GAVI co-founded by BMGF, is helping both with covid-19 and with other vaccines. I'm sure that will give more than a billion effective doses compared to your idea this year.

  20. #21140
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's life.

    Pretty much all economically sound countries splurged a ton on these. At the very least it's a good plan for countries that can afford it. Everyone is so moralistic and chivalrous, but in the end - in this shit seems like it's every country for itself first and foremost.

    Look at them Canada bois go, 400% of their population covered, very nice.

    They pre-ordered last year from all potential candidates to ensure supply. They could always donate what they don't need in the end. And alot of the vaccines ordered have not been authorised yet.

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