1. #21661
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    They're not saying that 23 people died from the vaccine. They said that 23 elderly, frail people have died at some point after taking the vaccine, and they're investigating to find out if the deaths are related to the vaccine, or if they're just incidental.
    I generally agree that there's a lot of alarmism and this deaths don't seem that concerning, but technically they wrote "a few days after"; not "at some point after".

    Since the vaccination started recently it's almost the same, but I would say that number seems too low for "at some point after":

    Norway (the country - not the care provider in some states in the US) has about 30k persons in long-time care and had vaccinated about 20k (primarily within that population) January 11 (a few days before that study). If about 200 persons die each week in long-time care in Norway (there have been a bit conflicting statements; I believe the 400 include other care homes as well) that means about 30 persons die each day, and if 20k of 30k had been vaccinated it means that among the vaccinated 20 persons would on average die each and every day - compared with the 23 that died a few specific days after they had gotten the vaccine.

    However:
    It might be that they skipped some very frail persons, if the person is on death's door and stopped eating it doesn't seem meaningful to vaccinate.
    It's still possible that the vaccine pushed some over the edge; as even a mild fever could be fatal. In the general population few persons are that ill; and you can wait a few days for those specific cases.
    And even if they all died due to it would mean that grouphave 0.1% fatality to the vaccine compared to perhaps 20% for the virus. (Clearly those numbers are lower in the general population.)

  2. #21662
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I hope those numbers are good for your area. In mine we are looking at 1% of the county having received a dose - that's among healthcare workers, first responders, caregivers, and the elderly. Supposedly more doses are due to arrive but we're looking at a very slow rollout if the rate stays the same. I personally believe service workers (fast food, restaurant, grocery, home repair, you know the 'essentials') should be in the initial groups as well.
    Same here, It's just the beginning.
    It will be late summer /fall at least before it is available to my age group.

    Bright side: loots of guinea pigs before I have to make the decisions.

  3. #21663
    Herald of the Titans Katie N's Avatar
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    Looking back now, I don't understand how some countries dealt with it so badly and continue dealing with it so badly.

  4. #21664
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Looking back now, I don't understand how some countries dealt with it so badly and continue dealing with it so badly.
    Some have excessive bureaucracy issues, like in many cases in EU. Some are just management/decision making. Some don't have the means or reach. Some just don't give a damn. Some are combination of two or more of the cases before.

    It's really down to each and every government and their own demons.

  5. #21665
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    mAbs aren’t the same thing as the vaccines.

  6. #21666
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Some have excessive bureaucracy issues, like in many cases in EU
    Those bureaucracy issues didn’t stop Trump from defunding the pandemic response team, cutting the CDC budget by 19% and only kicking a few million people off healthcare, because Trump is obsessed with Obama. When US president tells a reporter one on one, the virus will be a big deal, but tells the public it’s a hoax that will go away by Easter... then goes on to encourage rioters attacking nurses and medical professionals, during their ‘I need a hair cut’ riots.

    Last I checked... those are not the definition of bureaucracy... more like a hospitality mogul didn’t want to take action, that would impede his business. Even if it meant 400k dead... Trump got to make money...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Looking back now, I don't understand how some countries dealt with it so badly and continue dealing with it so badly.
    Some countries have presidents, who are also billionaires that own a lot of hotels and golf courses around the world, where lock down and preventative measures, have a direct impact on Trump corporation finances.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  7. #21667
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Here in Poland people calculated that if you are in 18-30 bracket and don't have access to vaccine because your job you will be vaccinated as soon as....2025. Nice one. Its going so insanely slow that they will probably end up in vicious circle of re-vaccinating medical staff/oldies all over.
    No, it will be much faster. Though Pfizer's decision about manufacturing revamp was interesting, to say the least, they are pumping out what, hundreds of thousands of doses per day? Moderna is gonna be doing the same, plus there are other manufacturers incoming as well. It is ramping up very fast. Question is about logistics and peoples willingness to get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I think there was one another, but seems unrelated.

    We're 2 million people in already, there is an odd case of allergic reaction here and there and couple cases of deaths, but there is no clear link for the latter ones.
    I'm hoping I'll get my vaccine in February. They are now starting to offer it to 45 yo+, so I imagine somewhere in February my age group will start getting it too.
    Basically statistical error at most, bad luck, etc. There are millions of vaccinations across Europe too, nothing spectacular is coming out about sideeffects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  8. #21668
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    No, it will be much faster. Though Pfizer's decision about manufacturing revamp was interesting, to say the least, they are pumping out what, hundreds of thousands of doses per day? Moderna is gonna be doing the same, plus there are other manufacturers incoming as well. It is ramping up very fast. Question is about logistics and peoples willingness to get it.
    Arguably it will be much slower. They vaccine betwen 20-25k people a day in 6k "vaccination points" which gives 4-5 vaccinations per day per station. And it will go much faster in big cities where it started than in smaller towns/countryside.

  9. #21669
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Looking back now, I don't understand how some countries dealt with it so badly and continue dealing with it so badly.
    because our country is full of conspiracy nuts who abhor vaccines and worship trump's footsteps.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  10. #21670
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post



    Some countries have presidents, who are also billionaires that own a lot of hotels and golf courses around the world, where lock down and preventative measures, have a direct impact on Trump corporation finances.
    Not to mention that country has very lax "donation" rules/laws when it comes to presidential elections. Had to keep those corporate/billionaire donors happy. Can't be happy with a closed country....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    No, it will be much faster. Though Pfizer's decision about manufacturing revamp was interesting, to say the least, they are pumping out what, hundreds of thousands of doses per day? Moderna is gonna be doing the same, plus there are other manufacturers incoming as well. It is ramping up very fast. Question is about logistics and peoples willingness to get it.


    .
    Strange, I heard in the US we have a couple million strong logistics entity that basically has been preparing for things like this for decades.
    Guess when you are not going to save the oil for our corporate entities, you don't get them involved..... sigh

    Well at least it looks like an actual adult on the 20th will be making some changes to start to get them involved, bigly.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  11. #21671
    Legendary! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    mAbs aren’t the same thing as the vaccines.
    "Interestingly, N234Q was markedly resistant to neutralizing antibodies, whereas N165Q became more sensitive. These findings could be of value in the development of
    vaccine and therapeutic antibodies."

    Didn't bother did ya.

  12. #21672
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post

    Basically statistical error at most, bad luck, etc. There are millions of vaccinations across Europe too, nothing spectacular is coming out about sideeffects.
    Side effects are unfortunate but the rate they occur seem to lower than say going to the hospital and having to deal with some complication - even if you hospital stay doesn't involve surgery. People often don't avoid hospitals because they fear complications (there's other reasons they do though) and the vaccines appear to be safer.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  13. #21673
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    Looking back now, I don't understand how some countries dealt with it so badly and continue dealing with it so badly.
    I think it's a combination of the organizations responsible for raising the alarm turned into cheer leaders for how amazing china was at handling it. W.H.O. acted disgracefully for example along with a healthy dose of not wanting it to be as bad as it was and protecting the markets.
    Last edited by Krakan; 2021-01-17 at 11:23 PM.

  14. #21674
    Here's a fun bit, MoH released joint project agreement with Phizer that allowed to get priority on vaccines.

    https://govextra.gov.il/media/30806/...t-redacted.pdf

  15. #21675
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    "Interestingly, N234Q was markedly resistant to neutralizing antibodies, whereas N165Q became more sensitive. These findings could be of value in the development of
    vaccine and therapeutic antibodies."

    Didn't bother did ya.
    That doesn’t say it’ll render vaccines useless by mutations though...

  16. #21676
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I think it's a combination of the organizations responsible for raising the alarm turned into cheer leaders for how amazing china was at handling it. W.H.O. acted disgracefully for example along with a healthy dose of not wanting it to be as bad as it was and protecting the markets.
    Nah, lol

    I know you very desperately want to blame everything on China, but you can't just reimagine reality to fit your narrative.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #21677
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Nah, lol

    I know you very desperately want to blame everything on China, but you can't just reimagine reality to fit your narrative.
    I mean.. you can go back and read how for months the w.h.o. said it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't a pandemic...

    It's still there written down I don't have to imagine it... is this what happens to your mind on cnn?

  18. #21678
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean.. you can go back and read how for months the w.h.o. said it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't a pandemic...

    It's still there written down I don't have to imagine it... is this what happens to your mind on cnn?
    i know proof won't follow from you, but didn't the WHO declare its going to become a pandemic mid feb, which would have only been about a month and a half after it was first discoverd?
    Also hard to declare a pandemic before it becomes one, huh?
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  19. #21679
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    i know proof won't follow from you, but didn't the WHO declare its going to become a pandemic mid feb, which would have only been about a month and a half after it was first discoverd?
    Also hard to declare a pandemic before it becomes one, huh?
    Yeah why would we want to be alerted to something a month and a half before it snowballed out of control... who would want to isolate one country rather then infect the world.

  20. #21680
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean.. you can go back and read how for months the w.h.o. said it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't a pandemic...

    It's still there written down I don't have to imagine it... is this what happens to your mind on cnn?
    It's absolutely written down. Everywhere. The WHO never "said it wasn't a big deal".

    But the WHO was busy, and alerts were going out early on.

    Your attempted narrative is garbage and you know it.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

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