Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Forogil]

Also this whole notion of the thing being "rushed" when in fact the majority of the speed came from eliminating the red tape from govt approval and companies going full tilt instead of slow and steady to maximize profit.

I sort of agree, however, labelling it as "eliminating red tape" isn't fully accurate. Government officials spent their holidays reading through 1000-page documents for the approval.

Additionally it may also have impacted the product a bit. At least the uk claims that the time being doses was a bit too short in the trials, and that was done because every additional week between first dose and the second would delay the approval by one week (since the trial would take that much longer).

However, my main point is that rare side effects like the blood clots are unlikely to be detected in trials even in normal times. Basically if something happens once in 100,000 doses and you have a phase III trial where 20,000 gets the dose you are unlike to see it in the trial; even during normal times. So, the main issue with the "rush" compared to normal procedures isn't approval, testing, production but the roll-out. It seems unusual that a new drugs are given to 500,000,000 persons during the first months - but given that there are 3,000,243 confirmed dead it makes sense.

[CostinR]

Two things still waiting for anyone to give me an answer.

What the hell do you think the vaccine is capable of doing to you?

Mess with my immune system for one. But quite frankly I don't know, no one does with these vaccines especially with Pfizer and Moderna which are first made using new technology. That's why long term testing and study with a slow rollout instead of millions upon millions getting doses is normal. Of course we can't do that now given the situation with Covid, but we take that risk because personally I don't want to feel like whenever I go outside I am literally risking my life. Some don't want to make that choice.

Also this whole notion of the thing being "rushed" when in fact the majority of the speed came from eliminating the red tape from govt approval and companies going full tilt instead of slow and steady to maximize profit. so much govt money was thrown at this and so much focus the good press of getting this out trumped just about any other projects these drug companies had going.

This isn't about bureaucracy, there is a process, a well established working one that has achieved solid results. Yes there are times when the FDA drags their feet, same with the EU regulators, but quite plainly rushing medical treatment is not the wisest idea in the world.

[PhaelixWW]

Mess with my immune system for one. But quite frankly I don't know, no one does with these vaccines especially with Pfizer and Moderna which are first made using new technology. That's why long term testing and study with a slow rollout instead of millions upon millions getting doses is normal. Of course we can't do that now given the situation with Covid, but we take that risk because personally I don't want to feel like whenever I go outside I am literally risking my life. Some don't want to make that choice.

That's a popular misconception; mRNA therapeutics and vaccines have actually been around for a long time. This is just the first time a mRNA vaccine has been approved for widespread human use, not the first time the technology has been used and studied in humans, which has been going on for nearly 30 years.

[Mayhem]

Yes, especially considering how that many countries have been limiting outdoor activities which have worked in the other direction.

What were does limits many countries have introduced?

[Forogil]

What were does limits many countries have introduced?

Some examples:
Spain March 2020.
France March 2020 (you were allowed outside for brief exercise). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...20:_First_peak
India March 2020 - https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1608009
At least in Lombardy in Italy March 2020, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51991972

And in many other countries people did it more or less voluntarily.

[Thepersona]

In a few mins we'll have a government published study on the effectiveness of the sinovac vaccine. I hope it works, since i got my 2 jabs from said vaccine.

[Thepersona]

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...-underperforms

As per the paper published by the government, the effectiveness using real world data is 67% protection against symptomatic infection, 89% protection against icu admission and 80% protection against death (from those who were admitted into ICUs).

[Mayhem]

Some examples:
Spain March 2020.
France March 2020 (you were allowed outside for brief exercise). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...20:_First_peak
India March 2020 - https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1608009
At least in Lombardy in Italy March 2020, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51991972

And in many other countries people did it more or less voluntarily.

"Many" is a bit of a stretch then wouldn't you say?

[Zan15]

Mess with my immune system for one. But quite frankly I don't know, no one does with these vaccines especially with Pfizer and Moderna which are first made using new technology. That's why long term testing and study with a slow rollout instead of millions upon millions getting doses is normal. Of course we can't do that now given the situation with Covid, but we take that risk because personally I don't want to feel like whenever I go outside I am literally risking my life. Some don't want to make that choice.

This isn't about bureaucracy, there is a process, a well established working one that has achieved solid results. Yes there are times when the FDA drags their feet, same with the EU regulators, but quite plainly rushing medical treatment is not the wisest idea in the world.

LOL do you even know how long the standard "process" to get an drug approved? The backlog and normal timeline? Not to mention how drug companies manage a pipeline of drugs to continue to grow revenue and profits at a steady pace so that their yearly results are not spikey as fuck. They are generally never in a hurry to push out a drug since they have a multi year plan on drug releases at all times. Probably more like a decade long plan.

BTW i can show you a half dozen "solid results" that "resulted" in way more death and sever side effects on drugs that took years to reach market after years in "testing" under your so called "well established process".

Vaccines in general have been very safe for decades. I don't even remember the last time we had a vaccine that caused major problems and death.

[Witchblade77]

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-...id-19-vaccines

in a nutshell - research into coronovirus vaccines has been going on for about a decade, prompted by MERS and SARS. its part of the reason why they were able to get this particular vaccine done so quickly. they already had a foundation laid out and adopted it to this specific coronavirus.

on a different note, finally have my appointment scheduled for first shot. looks like its going to be Moderna.

[Tuor]

Congratulation to Israel... For testing the vaccines for us. judging the data that comes from Israel herd imunity should be around 65-70% of the population.

Lets hope the imunity lasts a least one year.

[Forogil]

"Many" is a bit of a stretch then wouldn't you say?

Well, more than a billion impacted as an example.
And it was not an exhaustive list from Argentina (or Albania that allegedly used drones to check that people were only outside 90 minutes a day) to Vietnam (the one in Zimbabwe seemed to have been toothless).

[Zan15]

Congratulation to Israel... For testing the vaccines for us. judging the data that comes from Israel herd imunity should be around 65-70% of the population.

Lets hope the imunity lasts a least one year.

shame thanks to republicans we will never get near 70% in this country till they are all either sick or dead from covid.
not even an exaggeration based on every poll so far.

[Mayhem]

Well, more than a billion impacted as an example.
And it was not an exhaustive list from Argentina (or Albania that allegedly used drones to check that people were only outside 90 minutes a day) to Vietnam (the one in Zimbabwe seemed to have been toothless).

It was also for a few days/weeks tops. I mean, you're citing 21 days of complete lockdown in India at the beginning of the pandemic as an example of governments denying people the opportunity to do outdoor activities.

[Forogil]

It was also for a few days/weeks tops. I mean, you're citing 21 days of complete lockdown in India at the beginning of the pandemic as an example of governments denying people the opportunity to do outdoor activities.

A billion people impacted for more than a month - just because it was announced as a 21 day lockdown doesn't mean it ended after 21 days.

My conclusion was this was likely leading to less active life-style (both short-term and long-term) which we now see increases the risk of severe covid-19 (and previously knew caused other problems).

Let's see what the science says:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33614578/

Conclusions: The study found COVID-19 had both immediate and longer-term impacts on self-reported physical activities and sedentary behaviors among Chinese youths. Relevant efforts should be strengthened to get youths physically moving again.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32838062/

Conclusion: A significant reduction in self-report physical activity and energy expenditure levels were observed among physiotherapy professionals and students during the COVID-19 lockdown period.

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4663/8/10/139/htm

During lockdown, inactivity increased dramatically, with males and the high PA population affected significantly more. The decline in PA is a great concern due to possible long-term consequences on public health and healthcare system.

[Mayhem]

A billion people impacted for more than a month - just because it was announced as a 21 day lockdown doesn't mean it ended after 21 days.

My conclusion was this was likely leading to less active life-style (both short-term and long-term) which we now see increases the risk of severe covid-19 (and previously knew caused other problems).

Let's see what the science says:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33614578/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32838062/

https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4663/8/10/139/htm

Oh, I agree with that, I just have a hard time blaming governments for these things if they didn't keep people from doing sport in their past time. We are in our 4th lockdown, I think, and doing sport outdoors was never prohibited.

[Gaidax]

Congratulation to Israel... For testing the vaccines for us. judging the data that comes from Israel herd imunity should be around 65-70% of the population.

Lets hope the imunity lasts a least one year.

Worked out for us. Zombies did not appear on streets and we have lifted majority of restrictions for a while now without any issue. I'll take it.

We already have plans for 3rd shot in winter to make sure things hold.

- - - Updated - - -

And yes it's about 65% or so coverage now - 53% vaccinated with both jabs of mostly Phizer, then there are another 10% or so of those who recovered previously. It seems to be enough for this to die down.

[Forogil]

And yes it's about 65% or so coverage now - 53% vaccinated with both jabs of mostly Phizer, then there are another 10% or so of those who recovered previously. It seems to be enough for this to die down.

I believe those numbers can be a bit misleading for other countries.

53% fully vaccinated in the population in Israel mean 73% of the 15+ year olds fully vaccinated; and if Germany wants 73% of the 15+ year olds vaccinated that requires 64% of the general population. (The population of Israel is rather young by western standards.)

This assumes that under 15 aren't that significant for the spread of the disease as indicated from early on - and if they had been a main source (as for the flu) I don't see how Israel's vaccination would have worked.

[Tuor]

Plans for 3rd shot in winter to make sure things hold.

I Hope you planning to pay Pfizer this time...

[Gaidax]

I Hope you planning to pay Pfizer this time...

Don't worry, they will get their $$ just fine. They got paid for everything used so far, the payment for new shipments is stalled thanks to the usual political bureaucracy and dick measuring between the (for now) coalition members.