1. #22321
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Shut the hell up. If a vaccine is only mediocre at doing it's job, the society continues putting itself at risk. I would be fine if this was the best we can do, and it is our only ray of hope, but it's not. In fact, AstraZeneca is the shittiest vaccine on the market, and the only reason Germany is trying to shove it down our throat is because it's the drug they bought.

    There is a better, albeit more expensive, alternative out there. Which to me just seems as if the safety of this society is a matter of money.

    Even going further than that, AstraZeneca doesn't even seem to be able to deliver on their contract and the purchased amount of shots in Europe.

    No. If I'm going to get a shot, I want the efficient one. You can take AstraZeneca all you want and pretend to be a hero.

    Until then I will do what has an even higher rate of protection than this vaccine: stay inside.
    There is absolutely no evidence to support your anti-vax stance and recent reports have found that the AZ vaccine reduces hospitalisations due to Covid amongst the over 80's by similar rates to the Pfizer jab.

    If you don't want to take the vaccine that is your choice but stop spreading anti-vax conspiracies!

  2. #22322
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There is absolutely no evidence to support your anti-vax stance and recent reports have found that the AZ vaccine reduces hospitalisations due to Covid amongst the over 80's by similar rates to the Pfizer jab.

    If you don't want to take the vaccine that is your choice but stop spreading anti-vax conspiracies!
    You go get dicked right with slant. I'm not anti vax, it's not a fucking conspiracy, I'm saying Germany is doing a piss poor job at getting available vaccinations that work better than AstraZeneca.

    Are you all that fucking desperate to go out and party again that you're willing to take in whatever they present to you?

    Why can't we have BionTech available, which is even local in Germany? What other than "we got a cheap deal for Astra" is there as a sorry excuse?

  3. #22323
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Shut the hell up. If a vaccine is only mediocre at doing it's job, the society continues putting itself at risk. I would be fine if this was the best we can do, and it is our only ray of hope, but it's not. In fact, AstraZeneca is the shittiest vaccine on the market, and the only reason Germany is trying to shove it down our throat is because it's the drug they bought.

    There is a better, albeit more expensive, alternative out there. Which to me just seems as if the safety of this society is a matter of money.

    Even going further than that, AstraZeneca doesn't even seem to be able to deliver on their contract and the purchased amount of shots in Europe.

    No. If I'm going to get a shot, I want the efficient one. You can take AstraZeneca all you want and pretend to be a hero.

    Until then I will do what has an even higher rate of protection than this vaccine: stay inside.
    Both are efficient enough. No vaccine is 100% effectiveness. What you're doing is being inefficient in that you're not using what is available and instead clog up the system for another vaccine that you perceive to be slightly more effective. Btw, effectiveness and efficiency are not the same.

    Luckily, though, you and me are in the last target group. So by the time you're called up, you can probably pick and choose anyway.
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  4. #22324
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Both are efficient enough. No vaccine is 100% effectiveness. What you're doing is being inefficient in that you're not using what is available and instead clog up the system for another vaccine that you perceive to be slightly more effective. Btw, effectiveness and efficiency are not the same.

    Luckily, though, you and me are in the last target group. So by the time you're called up, you can probably pick and choose anyway.
    I hope I can. That's what I expect from a free market. And you're right, I mean effective, not efficient.

    It just grinds my gears to no end that yet again this Government is unable to be top notch. I see to other countries and I continue to wonder why the hell can't we do things right from the start for once.

    The Corona App is a 20? Million Euros dumpster fire.
    It feels like half of our population are straight corona deniers.
    And then when we're about to start the vaccinations, we take the least effective out there.

    God dammit

  5. #22325
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    Settle down guys, stay civil and keep things appropriate.
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  6. #22326
    Yes yes sorry. I just feel cheated. It's not fair to let it out on my fellow posters here.

  7. #22327
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    You go get dicked right with slant. I'm not anti vax, it's not a fucking conspiracy, I'm saying Germany is doing a piss poor job at getting available vaccinations that work better than AstraZeneca.

    Are you all that fucking desperate to go out and party again that you're willing to take in whatever they present to you?

    Why can't we have BionTech available, which is even local in Germany? What other than "we got a cheap deal for Astra" is there as a sorry excuse?
    You are promoting anti-vax conspiracies, the AZ vaccine - like all vaccines that have been approved - works. And reports in the UK have shown that the AZ vaccine is proving to be just as effective as the Pfizer vaccine at preventing serious illness.

    I will take whatever vaccine I am offered and it has nothing to do with wanting to go out party.

    Also, I would suggest that rather than throwing insults at me on the internet it would perhaps be better and more productive for you to vent your anger at the politicians who instead of taking responsibility for the mess they caused decided to brief against AZ and their vaccine.
    Last edited by Pann; 2021-02-24 at 05:59 PM.

  8. #22328
    Sounds like first world problems to me.

    If I'd be in situation where AZ would be the only vaccine available, I'd take it, because it might not be as "sexy" as Phizer or Moderna ones, but it works just fine. Heck I'd probably take Russian vaccine too, after it was confirmed to actually work as advertised.

    Sure, I can also pull this meme of hiding in the bunker "been training for this my whole life" gamer gag, but in reality I still do go out, even if a little. I'm not a superman either, I can catch it just like these 500k dead American citizens did and you can bet a good chunk of them were as careful as it gets.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2021-02-24 at 06:01 PM.

  9. #22329
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Both are efficient enough. No vaccine is 100% effectiveness. What you're doing is being inefficient in that you're not using what is available and instead clog up the system for another vaccine that you perceive to be slightly more effective. Btw, effectiveness and efficiency are not the same.
    I believe you mean efficacy not efficiency; although all the three terms exist and are different.

    Efficacy is how well the drug works in the ideal case, which is what the phase III trials measure.
    Effectiveness is how well the drug works in practice, which is usually lower.
    Efficiency is how well we do the things we do, like we have higher efficiency in distributing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine when using special needles and getting 6.25 doses per vial instead of 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Luckily, though, you and me are in the last target group. So by the time you're called up, you can probably pick and choose anyway.
    It's doubtful that you will be able to choose, as there will be a rush to get it done before summer/fall/winter.

    Regarding the Astra-Zeneca there were three problems: it wasn't tested enough on the elderly - some interpret this as it working as well on the elderly, and some that we need more data (but unless you are 65+ that's not an issue), it had lower efficacy than other vaccines in some sense (but in terms of reducing severe disease and death it seemed to work well enough - note that the different trials don't necessarily measure the same things; and all have large error bars that are normally skipped), and they changed the protocol for giving it in confusing ways due to late testing.

    Clarifying the latter: basically they first experimented with one dose of various strengths, found it wasn't enough and offered those persons another dose and for some reason that group had better protection than the ones in the normal two-dose test. At first this was explained by the different dosages, but later the explanation is that it was due to unintended longer delays between the doses.
    It also seems to work less well against the South African variant, but still good enough and also work against some of the other variants.

    And then they have some problem scaling up the production in EU which is somewhat unrelated.

    All of that seems fair enough, and I would accept the vaccine if/when offered (I would prefer the Pfizer/BioNTech or Moderna one if offered the choice, despite some indications that they have more side-effects; but if I were in sub-Saharan Africa it would be trickier).

    However, on a separate note I do have problems with some governments taking this idea of AZ vaccine working better with longer delay and applying it to all vaccines without enough testing; especially as we now have data suggesting that it doesn't work in practice.

  10. #22330
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    And it's stupid. And selfish. You are not taking the vaccine to save yourself, you disturbed little person, you take it to save SOCIETY as a whole. Everyone around you.
    Eeeh... on one side people blare about how vaccination does not equal you no longer being a carrier etc, how we need measures to last blah blah
    on the other side people spout the opposite, calling hesitant folks "egotistical"

    Make up your minds already.

    Personally speaking: 60-70% is still pretty damn good for a vaccine and should help reduce the overall caseload. I do not see any reason not to take it, given that yearly shots are likely, you can opt for a Moderna/Phizer in your second run when supply is no longer an issue.

  11. #22331
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Eeeh... on one side people blare about how vaccination does not equal you no longer being a carrier etc, how we need measures to last blah blah
    on the other side people spout the opposite, calling hesitant folks "egotistical"

    Make up your minds already.
    Yes, that's another case of conflicting messages.

    The fact is that we don't know how well vaccination protects against spreading the disease.

    We expect it to substantially reduce the spread (that's after all a major reason for mass-vaccination campaigns - although it seems it isn't the case for all vaccines), but we don't know yet (well, there are some early studies that indicate it works) and especially we don't know how well.

    However, that detailed explanation seems too complicated and thus we get the conflicting messages instead.

    The relevant quote is: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

    It's also a case of solidarity, and making it easier to check that people follow the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Personally speaking: 60-70% is still pretty damn good for a vaccine and should help reduce the overall caseload. I do not see any reason not to take it, given that yearly shots are likely, you can opt for a Moderna/Phizer in your second run when supply is no longer an issue.
    Agreed, and it's also a matter of what that 60-70% measures. As far as I recall it is against infection, and the reduction in severe infection and death is even larger (although the base chance is already low if you are young enough).

  12. #22332
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    This exactly. My gf is scheduled to get it in April because of her diabetes. I will probably get one in September, lol.
    aaaaaaaah, i got diabetes type 2... but my bmi isnt above 40.. so i probaly dont get it in april but covid gives me load of stress
    ''With this attack, we have no choice but to protect our kind by unleashing our almighty weapon upon them. Summoning the Apocalypse'' - Stellaris Apocalypse trailer.

  13. #22333
    So I got my 1st vaccine shot Sunday. I was one that had some reservations about getting it but I got it so I could assist some coworkers assisting in distribution (IT not medical) that have been working their asses off and I can only help if I'm vaccinated I'm 32, my whole left arm hurt like hell and it was creeping into my left pectoral area. The day after I started coughing and would hallucinate glowing multicolored flies for 30 seconds or so after coughing, best way I can describe it, they sent me home. I'm fine now but I know the second shot is supposed to be the crappier reaction. Not looking forward to it. The weird thing I've been experiencing is I've just told a few family I've received the shot and even some of them seem ticked off I got it before they could, so I don't tell anyone else.

  14. #22334
    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    I'm 32, my whole left arm hurt like hell and it was creeping into my left pectoral area. The day after I started coughing and would hallucinate glowing multicolored flies for 30 seconds or so after coughing, best way I can describe it, they sent me home.
    I'm 34, got the first shot a few weeks ago and only got a dull ache in my arm, focused entirely where I got the shot, which lasted for about a day. I'm not worried about the second shot right now (mostly because I don't get it until April), but I'm sure it'll be manageable.

  15. #22335
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I'm 34, got the first shot a few weeks ago and only got a dull ache in my arm, focused entirely where I got the shot, which lasted for about a day. I'm not worried about the second shot right now (mostly because I don't get it until April), but I'm sure it'll be manageable.
    Yeah most people are fine, I'm actually fine now. I was relatively fine yesterday, it was just Monday that sucked.

  16. #22336
    Pit Lord Tuor's Avatar
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    One more new strain discovered in Finland. This one seems to be able to evade the current PCR tests.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/n...overed-finland


  17. #22337
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Eeeh... on one side people blare about how vaccination does not equal you no longer being a carrier etc, how we need measures to last blah blah
    on the other side people spout the opposite, calling hesitant folks "egotistical"

    Make up your minds already.

    Personally speaking: 60-70% is still pretty damn good for a vaccine and should help reduce the overall caseload. I do not see any reason not to take it, given that yearly shots are likely, you can opt for a Moderna/Phizer in your second run when supply is no longer an issue.
    The whole "you do this to save yourself" thing is true, but it's also the main bait to get everyone to cooperate. The whole "save everyone else" line doesn't work for selfish people. That's why there's ambiguity. IF you're halfway intelligent, though, you know how this works.
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  18. #22338
    Quote Originally Posted by EyelessCrow View Post
    So I got my 1st vaccine shot Sunday. I was one that had some reservations about getting it but I got it so I could assist some coworkers assisting in distribution (IT not medical) that have been working their asses off and I can only help if I'm vaccinated I'm 32, my whole left arm hurt like hell and it was creeping into my left pectoral area. The day after I started coughing and would hallucinate glowing multicolored flies for 30 seconds or so after coughing, best way I can describe it, they sent me home. I'm fine now but I know the second shot is supposed to be the crappier reaction. Not looking forward to it. The weird thing I've been experiencing is I've just told a few family I've received the shot and even some of them seem ticked off I got it before they could, so I don't tell anyone else.
    You weren’t hallucinating. It’s called a phosphene and is caused by the pressure from coughing which makes your retinas send signals to the optic nerve causing you to see those lights.

  19. #22339
    There is some mild pain in your arm in the general area of the injection. Both times it was the same, lasts for about 1 day.

  20. #22340
    AZ keeps dissapointing me, but not in the usual way. Latest planned deliveries to Latvia (and if I am not mistaken, other countries too) have now suffered some reduction, because reasons. Something again with production facilities, IIRC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Stop lying.
    Gotta say, seeing those posts is always funny. But as Gaidax said - ask Hamas to spend less on missiles.
    P.S.
    Since about a week ago there should be deal for vaccinating 100k Palestinian workers in Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

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