Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Specialka]

Not yet, but they will be.
Currently officials here do not see vaccine resistance as much of a problem, they still estimate the diehards at ~10%.

Problems right now are: adolescents (STIKO recommendations unclear, working on it), Kiddos (no recommendation except with preexisting conditions), economic migrants that do not speak our language and require extra effort to get into the boat.

Once the above is taken care of, we will be close enough to not wear stupid masks for the rest of our lives.

Stupid masks that saved countless lives.

[caractacus]

Can you supply a source for that risk/benefit ratio?

I don't think anyone really knows with any real certainty one way or the other at the moment and the risk/benefit issue is currently being looked at in many countries.

Just for some perspective this article is from the BBC four days ago and stats the chance of a child dying from covid is 2 in a million. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57766717

And this is from the MHRA on the AZ vaccine.

The MHRA says the overall incidence of these blood clots is 10.9 per million doses (or 1 in 92,000). Therefore the incidence of death related to these blood clots is around 1 in 470,000.*

So if you just took those two available stats you could argue it's slightly riskier to have the vaccine. But it's not that simple because the AZ vaccine seems to adversely effect younger people so they aren't being recommended the AZ vaccine however the other vaccines also have a risk attached with heart problems which also seems to effect younger people.

*This is extrapolated from the data that 1 in 5 or 50 in 250 blood clots were fatal

[Elegiac]

Once the above is taken care of

Which it won't because certain people (like yourself) will bitch about any and all public health measures like you've been doing so the entire pandemic and continue to compromise herd immunity making lockdowns a necessity. Lul.

we will be close enough to not wear stupid masks for the rest of our lives.

You should be wearing a mask if you are sick and need to go out in public regardless. It should be as second nature as slapping a bandage over a bleeding wound.

[Granyala]

Stupid masks that saved countless lives.

And were appropriate when we did not have a vaccine, yes.

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Which it won't because certain people (like yourself) will bitch about any and all public health measures like you've been doing so the entire pandemic and continue to compromise herd immunity making lockdowns a necessity.

Bitching and not adhering are 2 different things. I always followed regulations and I got the vaccine as soon as I could.
Your point?

Oh right, just a nonsensical personal attack from s/o who knows jack shit and loves to troll.

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@Granyala nobody is protected 100% by the vaccine and more than a small fraction are unvaccinated. Try again.

I wasn't talking about now an you know that. Stop trolling it won't work.

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You should be wearing a mask if you are sick and need to go out in public regardless. It should be as second nature as slapping a bandage over a bleeding wound.

I will do that.
Though I do prefer to not go out at all when sick. ^^

[Granyala]

You keep deflecting with this argument that you mean later, but ignore the serious roadblocks to getting there.

I'm not deflecting anything. It is you who barges in, quotes me out of context just so you can be "right" and diss me.
I said multiple times that now is not the time to ease up on anything, not when we have ~60% of the population w/o complete vaccination.

Also, I did mention some of the roadblocks to herd immunity that Germany is facing.

Realistically spoken: I expect the mask mandate and basic social distancing to stay in effect until spring next year, when we have data on what a winter in a largely inoculated population looks like. Hopefully we will be able to avoid any further full blown lockdowns. Currently, officials over here are cautiously optimistic.

[Gaidax]

Whether to vaccinate children or not it is simply best to follow the recommendations of the official health agencies.

Yes, there are open questions, but ultimately it's not something I understand and have data to even deliberate on, so I'd rather do what I'm told to by the official recommendations from official sources.

I'm a sheep, but at least I'll hopefully get to eat my grass a little longer this way.

[Belize]

I mean at this point I kind of hope we get like.. to the zeta variant that is flesh eating and people start melting in the streets without a shot. Then we will see how true they are to their believes.

Honestly, this is my sentiment as well. I'm kinda hoping the Delta variant tears through the unvaccinated adult population like a fucking wildfire at this point. It'll solve a lot of issues in the long run, and if it kills fast enough, we have to worry less about mutations.

[Twdft]

And this is from the MHRA on the AZ vaccine.

The MHRA says the overall incidence of these blood clots is 10.9 per million doses (or 1 in 92,000). Therefore the incidence of death related to these blood clots is around 1 in 470,000.

Now get the contraceptive pills of your girlfriend and find out what her risk of blood clots is from those.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I’ve stepped aside. I don’t wish death on unvaccinated people, but I don’t care if they do get sick and/or die. People are gonna do what they wanna do, no matter how much you try to educate them on the matter. If they want to be ignorant, so be it.

Exactly like this door to door idea, eh no! I am not going to wish death or ill on anybody either, but at some point I think people have to come to terms with others peoples decisions, rather than assume it's because they are uninformed or choose to be.

[Granyala]

Whether to vaccinate children or not it is simply best to follow the recommendations of the official health agencies.

Aye.
The way I understand it is: medical professionals and scientist gather and assess the data as quickly as humanly possible, so best to let them do their work and be ready when they come to a conclusion. Politics in my country is pressuring them and I don't like it one bit.

[Rasulis]

Honestly, this is my sentiment as well. I'm kinda hoping the Delta variant tears through the unvaccinated adult population like a fucking wildfire at this point. It'll solve a lot of issues in the long run, and if it kills fast enough, we have to worry less about mutations.

We have Delta plus now. Just as virulent as Delta with better camouflage mechanism.

Children with covid do get long haul covid. Just at a lower percentage of adults. There have been multiple clinical studies confirming that. The current research efforts are trying to find out if there are any long term detrimental effects that won't show up until the teen years or adulthood like HPV.

COVID-19 alters human genes, explaining mystery behind coronavirus ‘long haulers’

A new study finds coronavirus actually causes long-term changes to an infected patient’s genes. Specifically, scientists reveal the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, creates long-lasting changes to human gene expression. These tiny spikes cover the surface of coronavirus cells. They allow the virus to bind to certain receptors on human cells and hijack their functions — leading to COVID infection. Once the spike cuts into a patient’s cells, the virus releases its own genetic material into the cell so it can replicate.

“We found that exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein alone was enough to change baseline gene expression in airway cells,” explains Nicholas Evans, a master’s student at the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, in a media release. “This suggests that symptoms seen in patients may initially result from the spike protein interacting with the cells directly.”

Researchers examined how exposure to spike protein impacts cultured human airway cells in lab experiments. They also compared the results to studies using cell samples from actual COVID-19 patients.

The team notes culturing human airway cells requires time and specific conditions which help the cells mature. This allows the lab cells to develop into the different cells living in a real human airway. To do this, study authors refined a culturing technique called air-liquid interface so they could more closely simulate the conditions in an actual patient’s lungs.

After culturing, scientists exposed the cells to low and high concentrations of purified spike protein. The results reveal differences in gene expression which remained in the cells even after the infection passed. The most affected genes include ones controlling the body’s inflammatory response.

“Our work helps to elucidate changes occurring in patients on the genetic level, which could eventually provide insight into which treatments would work best for specific patients,” Evans explains.

Study authors now plan to use this approach to examine how long these genetic changes last. They also hope to reveal what other long-term consequences a COVID infection will have on a patient’s health.

The team is presenting their findings at Experimental Biology (EB) 2021, a virtual meeting of the American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology.

[Forogil]

Now get the contraceptive pills of your girlfriend and find out what her risk of blood clots is from those.

Silly comparison - as the pill causes less fatal blood clots, even if more frequent.
If we just look at the risk of death it is about the same in a year.

But it depends on a number of factors - smoking, age etc. It seems that contraceptives are most dangerous for elder women and AZ vaccine most dangerous for younger women.

[Elegiac]

Silly comparison - as the pill causes less fatal blood clots, even if more frequent.
If we just look at the risk of death it is about the same in a year.

But it depends on a number of factors - smoking, age etc. It seems that contraceptives are most dangerous for elder women and AZ vaccine most dangerous for younger women.

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that bitching about risk of thrombosis is kind of silly when it's considered acceptable for something manifestly less life-saving than a vaccine.

[Granyala]

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that bitching about risk of thrombosis is kind of silly when it's considered acceptable for something manifestly less life-saving than a vaccine.

It is, if there is a safer alternative readily available.

From all my co-workers (School) I was the only one that took AZ. Everyone else just went "Naah I wait for Moderna".

[Elegiac]

It is, if there is a safer alternative readily available.

And if that alternative is not available, it is still silly to bitch about the risk of thrombosis.

[Tuor]

It is, if there is a safer alternative readily available.

From all my co-workers (School) I was the only one that took AZ. Everyone else just went "Naah I wait for Moderna".

I wanted Pfizer, but when they offered me Moderna i didn't blinked my eyes, so i got Moderna.

A lot better having something then nothing.

[Easo]

And if that alternative is not available, it is still silly to bitch about the risk of thrombosis.

It still is a risk you can control and accept (as opposed to the usual "brick fell on the head"). It doesn't matter to some people that the risk of death is 0.000001%, they do not want to be in those 0.000001%. It is silly, illogical, etc, but such is human nature. Needle is more scary than something you can't see, nor do they equate needle with those birth control pills.

[Forogil]

Okay. Doesn't change the fact that bitching about risk of thrombosis is kind of silly when it's considered acceptable for something manifestly less life-saving than a vaccine.

Except that the pill prevents something that for can be seen as deadlier than both the virus and these blood clots: pregnancy!

These blood clots (whether from the pill or from AZ vaccine) have a fatally risk of about 1 in 500,000 (in young women), which is comparable to the risk of contracting the virus and dying for young healthy women (depending on country etc). Compare that with the risk of dying in child-birth which is 1 in 50,000 in Italy and 1 in 5,000 in the US (the risk depend on a lot of factors).

[Elegiac]

Except that the pill prevents something that for can be seen as deadlier than both the virus and these blood clots: pregnancy!

You do realise the pill is prescribed and used for reasons other than contraception, yes?

Actually, no. I don't expect most men to be aware of that, and I say that with no rancor. It's just not something that's widely discussed.

[Flarelaine]

Wishing death on others has a rather high risk of leading to infractions.