1. #23841
    As someone considered to be incredibly "at risk" and has been vaccinated for a few months now with the only side effect being a vaguely sore arm for a day after each injection... just get the fucking vaccine.

  2. #23842
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I would like them to finish proper testing to see if there is a risk to long term negative health effects since I'm not in a at risk group..

    I admit it's honestly baffling to me that this seems to be considered an outlandish position to take. People also can't seem to mentally process that something being approved for emergency use isn't the same as something that has passed proper clinical trials...

    Also ballzy to link the CDC are they still telling people masks spread covid?
    The largest test in the history of the planet has been performed. What more do you need?

  3. #23843
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And now we’ve had more than 6 months with millions of doses, if not billions, administered. What surprises are you waiting to find?
    If you count billions of doses you likely include non-FDA approved vaccines, like the Chinese ones (China has gotten 1.3 billion doses and no FDA-approved vaccines are yet approved in China; Fosun is reportedly close with their production of the BioNTech vaccine (there are then some technicalities that FDA-approved is also needed for production facilities, ignore that)), the Russian Sputnik V and Sputnik Light, and AstraZeneca.

    Some/all of them are likely not efficient enough for the FDA (in particular the Chinese ones).
    Additionally some of them cause side-effects, so it seems doubtful that AstraZeneca's vaccine will ever win FDA-approval; and similarly for Sputnik.
    Janssen (or J&J) has similar issues, but a one-dose vaccine has some advantages - and I doubt that FDA will approve a new vaccine that doesn't give any benefits compared to existing ones.

    The main surprise for the "emergency use" vaccines is how long protection will last, the phase III trials continue investigating that.

    However, all of that is a distraction from the simple fact that there's a pandemic going on at the moment, and about 10k die every day!
    That's why the vaccine have "emergency use authorization", since the benefit of not dying in the pandemic is greater than the risk of side-effects with the vaccine
    - even considering the remote possibility of long term side-effects (which is also studied).

    Once the pandemic is over that will be re-evaluated, but currently "emergency use authorization" is good enough.

  4. #23844
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    If you count billions of doses you likely include non-FDA approved vaccines, like the Chinese ones (China has gotten 1.3 billion doses and no FDA-approved vaccines are yet approved in China; Fosun is reportedly close with their production of the BioNTech vaccine (there are then some technicalities that FDA-approved is also needed for production facilities, ignore that)), the Russian Sputnik V and Sputnik Light, and AstraZeneca.

    Some/all of them are likely not efficient enough for the FDA (in particular the Chinese ones).
    Additionally some of them cause side-effects, so it seems doubtful that AstraZeneca's vaccine will ever win FDA-approval; and similarly for Sputnik.
    Janssen (or J&J) has similar issues, but a one-dose vaccine has some advantages - and I doubt that FDA will approve a new vaccine that doesn't give any benefits compared to existing ones.

    The main surprise for the "emergency use" vaccines is how long protection will last, the phase III trials continue investigating that.

    However, all of that is a distraction from the simple fact that there's a pandemic going on at the moment, and about 10k die every day!
    That's why the vaccine have "emergency use authorization", since the benefit of not dying in the pandemic is greater than the risk of side-effects with the vaccine
    - even considering the remote possibility of long term side-effects (which is also studied).

    Once the pandemic is over that will be re-evaluated, but currently "emergency use authorization" is good enough.
    Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.

  5. #23845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.
    But what if everyone suddenly turn into zombies, like in the movies, after an arbitrary amount of time has passed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  6. #23846
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    As someone considered to be incredibly "at risk" and has been vaccinated for a few months now with the only side effect being a vaguely sore arm for a day after each injection... just get the fucking vaccine.
    I'm still waiting for the Pfizer, as too many with my illness are suffering pretty bad after effects from the AZ. Only problem is I can't book for a specific vaccine, so I have to rely on local notices of availability.

  7. #23847
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    But what if everyone suddenly turn into zombies, like in the movies, after an arbitrary amount of time has passed?
    I've been assured that the "Umbrella Corp" is in no way involved with the currently available vaccines."
    So it's all good!

  8. #23848
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.
    My point is that those are different vaccines, so you cannot count all of the 3bn shots when discussing safety in the US, as most of the 3bn haven't been authorized by the FDA AFAIK.

    As we have seen different vaccines can cause different side-effects, and it's not only a matter of the vaccines themselves but also about the production - and both Russia and China lack a bit of transparency which raises doubts.

    We do know that some of the vaccines (the viral vector ones) have serious side-effects, and if you are a "young" healthy (and woman) the risk of dying of the vaccine is somewhat similar to the risk of dying of the virus - and you might consider alternatives.
    We don't fully know if there's something similar for inactivated viruses, although inactivated viruses are normally fairly safe. FDA and EMA haven't "approved" any, but WHO have.

    It is unlikely - but possible - that there are some bad long-term effect, but the risk of the disease is larger - and that's why the vaccines are authorized at the moment: the emergency use authorization in the US is valid during the pandemic, and conditional marketing approval by EMA valid for one year.

    Note that most of us see the vaccines as sort of approved by the FDA, but the FDA think differently and don't consider the vaccines as approved, but writes (and similarly for other vaccines):
    The Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product. All of these criteria must be met to
    allow for the product to be used during the COVID-19 pandemic.

    The EUA for the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine is in effect for the duration of the COVID-19 declaration justifying emergency use of these products, unless terminated or revoked (after which the products may no longer be used)

  9. #23849
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    My point is that those are different vaccines, so you cannot count all of the 3bn shots when discussing safety in the US, as most of the 3bn haven't been authorized by the FDA AFAIK.

    As we have seen different vaccines can cause different side-effects, and it's not only a matter of the vaccines themselves but also about the production - and both Russia and China lack a bit of transparency which raises doubts.

    We do know that some of the vaccines (the viral vector ones) have serious side-effects, and if you are a "young" healthy (and woman) the risk of dying of the vaccine is somewhat similar to the risk of dying of the virus - and you might consider alternatives.
    We don't fully know if there's something similar for inactivated viruses, although inactivated viruses are normally fairly safe. FDA and EMA haven't "approved" any, but WHO have.

    It is unlikely - but possible - that there are some bad long-term effect, but the risk of the disease is larger - and that's why the vaccines are authorized at the moment: the emergency use authorization in the US is valid during the pandemic, and conditional marketing approval by EMA valid for one year.

    Note that most of us see the vaccines as sort of approved by the FDA, but the FDA think differently and don't consider the vaccines as approved, but writes (and similarly for other vaccines):
    And the 330M+ doses administered in the US mean fuck all?

  10. #23850
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The largest test in the history of the planet has been performed. What more do you need?
    The results of that test... I swear some people treat science like its waagh power in 40k.

    Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.

    I would argue that if you are not in a at risk category you may want to consider waiting for proper clinical trials to take place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.
    I think you are confusing science with a shared belief structure like religion rather then imperial gathering of data and the scientific method...

  11. #23851
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    The results of that test... I swear some people treat science like its waagh power in 40k.

    Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.

    I would argue that if you are not in a at risk category you may want to consider waiting for proper clinical trials to take place.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think you are confusing science with a shared belief structure like religion rather then imperial gathering of data and the scientific method...
    The results are in, get the jab. That’s the science genius. Stop with your uneducated belief that we don’ know enough about whether the vaccines are safe.

  12. #23852
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    And the 330M+ doses administered in the US mean fuck all?
    They obviously mean something, and are very likely very beneficial.

    The vaccines will be re-evaluated at some time, when pandemic is over or possibly earlier, and based on those 330M+ doses and the ongoing phase III trials those vaccines will likely be approved by the FDA - but they aren't yet, according to FDA. Other vaccines that are used elsewhere might neither be emergency use authorized nor approved, in particular the AstraZeneca vaccine has had an uphill struggle in the US.

    Similarly EMA's conditional market authorization expires after a year, and EMA expects more data.

    For the EU it's even more complicated - EU is both working to somewhat accept the Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine (Covishield - the usual one is called Vaxzevria), suing AstraZeneca to get doses delivered, and simultaneously not ordering additional AstraZeneca vaccine. The first is because EU only views people vaccinated with an EU-approved vaccine as vaccinated; not because EU is planning to use it on their citizens. The last is because other vaccines seem slightly better, and especially are more useful as booster-shots. Some countries have also stopped that vaccine (and the one by Janssen), or restricted it to people old enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.
    Not in itself, but when massive amount of people take the vaccine and very few get serious side-effects it confirms that it is fairly safe.

    Even if there is a bad long-term side-effect (which seems unlikely) it wouldn't be odd if a few experienced that earlier, and we haven't seen any such indications.

  13. #23853
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    They obviously mean something, and are very likely very beneficial.

    The vaccines will be re-evaluated at some time, when pandemic is over or possibly earlier, and based on those 330M+ doses and the ongoing phase III trials those vaccines will likely be approved by the FDA - but they aren't yet, according to FDA. Other vaccines that are used elsewhere might neither be emergency use authorized nor approved, in particular the AstraZeneca vaccine has had an uphill struggle in the US.

    Similarly EMA's conditional market authorization expires after a year, and EMA expects more data.

    For the EU it's even more complicated - EU is both working to somewhat accept the Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine (Covishield - the usual one is called Vaxzevria), suing AstraZeneca to get doses delivered, and simultaneously not ordering additional AstraZeneca vaccine. The first is because EU only views people vaccinated with an EU-approved vaccine as vaccinated; not because EU is planning to use it on their citizens. The last is because other vaccines seem slightly better, and especially are more useful as booster-shots. Some countries have also stopped that vaccine (and the one by Janssen), or restricted it to people old enough.
    They’re being evaluated in real time. The only reason the FDA hasn’t fully approved Pfizer and Moderna is an over abundance of caution in the face of morons who think approval is being rushed. Give it a couple months and they’ll be fully approved.

  14. #23854
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    I'm still waiting for the Pfizer, as too many with my illness are suffering pretty bad after effects from the AZ. Only problem is I can't book for a specific vaccine, so I have to rely on local notices of availability.
    Yeah, I had 2 doses of Pfizer myself, specifically avoiding AstraZeneca way back in February.

    Fingers crossed you get Pfizer-specific availability soon!

  15. #23855
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    They’re being evaluated in real time. The only reason the FDA hasn’t fully approved Pfizer and Moderna is an over abundance of caution in the face of morons who think approval is being rushed. Give it a couple months and they’ll be fully approved.
    I wouldn't hold my breath that they are approved before the original ongoing phase III trials are completed, which I believe is in October 2022 for Moderna.

  16. #23856
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The largest test in the history of the planet has been performed. What more do you need?
    We need data from 20 years post-vaccine! That way we'll have 20 years to complain about lockdowns and masks and mutations and by the time it's ready for the masses the vaccines may no longer be as effecacious against more recent mutations and we'll need to start that whole shebang all over again.

    PERMANENT LOCKDOWN AND MASKS TO OWN THE LIBS, YEAH BOI!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.
    If massive amounts of people receive the vaccine and the data doesn't show any missed side-effects or anything troubling...is it safe? Or does it still need more testing despite this live-environment data?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I would argue that if you are not in a at risk category you may want to consider waiting for proper clinical trials to take place.
    We know, and you should be ignored for your nonsense. I'll, again, stick with the professionals who have dedicated their lives to this kind of science, research, and medicine over Random Dude on the Internet #987234987234986239847623984709283749823748971623894712398471234

    Talk to your doctor obviously, this isn't medical advice, but maybe the experts might like, have a clue what they're talking about instead of people with no experience or knowledge in this area.

  17. #23857
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I wouldn't hold my breath that they are approved before the original ongoing phase III trials are completed, which I believe is in October 2022 for Moderna.
    Pfizer applied for full approval on May 7th, or some such, Moderna on June 1st. Usually takes 3-6 months to be granted from that point. We’ll see.

  18. #23858
    please someone tell me, as i will ask for the 100th time....

    WHAT on earth do people think is going to happen to them as a result of getting the vaccine?

    So far i have only heard "you never know" "something can happen"...etc etc etc.
    @Krakan ?? @Forogil ?


    Everyone fears long term health problems from the vaccination but can't even tell me what they specifically fear, what they think will happen.

    Still no one has ever shown a vaccine that caused long term problems in anything but a small sub fraction of people receiving the vaccinations. Just about everything that has ever been "approved" by the FDA has caused long term problems in a tiny fraction of the people who use them. Even over the counter medications kill and have severe side effects.



    Oh and you know once its FDA "approved" these morons will come up with yet another excuse not to take it or some other stupid conspiracy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey btw what could possibly go wrong with people not getting vaccinated for their jobs....


    https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/0...e-search-site/

    At Least 6 Firefighters Test Positive For COVID At Surfside Condo Collapse Search Site
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  19. #23859
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I wouldn't hold my breath that they are approved before the original ongoing phase III trials are completed, which I believe is in October 2022 for Moderna.
    Frankly, you can think whatever you want to think.

    CNBC: What full FDA approval could mean for Covid vaccines
    Standard vaccine reviews generally take several months to a year or more to determine whether it is safe and effective for use in the general public. But due to the pandemic, which has killed nearly 600,000 Americans, the FDA permitted the use of the shots under an EUA.

    In a public health emergency, the manufacturing and approval of vaccines can be streamlined through emergency authorizations. Former Health Secretary Alex Azar declared a public health emergency on Jan. 31, 2020. The health emergency has been renewed several times, most recently in late April. The FDA allowed the use of the shots with just two months of safety data under an EUA. It’s not the same as a Biologic License Application, or a request for full approval, which requires at least six months of data.
    The FDA approval process is likely to take months. There are multiple decisions along the way, including negotiations with the companies about what goes on the product label and how the companies can advertise the shots, Califf said.

    White House chief medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN last month that U.S. regulators would work “as expeditiously as possible” once the companies submit their applications for full approval.

    “When you’re getting a formal approval you have to have a certain amount of time just observing predominantly the safety, and obviously the safety looks really, really good in well over 140 million people having been vaccinated with at least a single dose,” he said. “I hope they do it quickly, because ... people when they hear it’s still emergency use, they still have a little concern about how far you can go with it.”

    It is “highly likely” that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines will be fully approved by the FDA as early as the second half of this year, said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. The shots, he said, have already demonstrated to be safe and highly effective in millions of Americans.
    Dr. Archana Chatterjee, another voting member of the agency’s Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, said she doesn’t expect rare adverse events that may pop up in the data to be a big problem for the vaccines.

    The FDA and CDC asked states to temporarily pause the use of another authorized vaccine, from Johnson & Johnson, in April after six women developed a blood clotting disorder. States resumed use of the vaccine 10 days later after a CDC advisory panel concluded the blood clots were very rare and the benefits of the shot outweighed its risks.

    Finding rare adverse events post-clinical trials are common, Chatterjee told CNBC. “Sometimes you do find out that when the vaccines are deployed and given to millions of people that very rare adverse events that are associated with the vaccine may emerge that did not occur during clinical trials, even with tens of thousands of people,” she added.

    However, Offit said he can’t think of any adverse events from a vaccine that didn’t occur within six weeks of a dose. “There are 200 million doses or so shots that have been distributed so if it’s going to cause a rare side effect, you would know that,” he said.


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  20. #23860
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    We need data from 20 years post-vaccine! That way we'll have 20 years to complain about lockdowns and masks and mutations and by the time it's ready for the masses the vaccines may no longer be as effecacious against more recent mutations and we'll need to start that whole shebang all over again.

    PERMANENT LOCKDOWN AND MASKS TO OWN THE LIBS, YEAH BOI!

    - - - Updated - - -



    If massive amounts of people receive the vaccine and the data doesn't show any missed side-effects or anything troubling...is it safe? Or does it still need more testing despite this live-environment data?



    We know, and you should be ignored for your nonsense. I'll, again, stick with the professionals who have dedicated their lives to this kind of science, research, and medicine over Random Dude on the Internet #987234987234986239847623984709283749823748971623894712398471234

    Talk to your doctor obviously, this isn't medical advice, but maybe the experts might like, have a clue what they're talking about instead of people with no experience or knowledge in this area.
    So what professionals should I listen to? The ones who say they honestly don't know the long term side effects and that it's still in clinical trials or these professionals that seem to not publish anything but you will constantly refer to?

    Look I would never suggest not taking the vaccine if you are in a high risk group. I simply see wisdom in holding off to make sure there are not long term side effects not readily apparent. Your response to that seems to be " well nothing bad happened right away!"

    I find it bizzare that people who seem to not even have an intro class worth of scientific understanding are those who try to inflate their arguement by screaming science.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    please someone tell me, as i will ask for the 100th time....

    WHAT on earth do people think is going to happen to them as a result of getting the vaccine?

    So far i have only heard "you never know" "something can happen"...etc etc etc.
    @Krakan ?? @Forogil ?


    Everyone fears long term health problems from the vaccination but can't even tell me what they specifically fear, what they think will happen.

    Still no one has ever shown a vaccine that caused long term problems in anything but a small sub fraction of people receiving the vaccinations. Just about everything that has ever been "approved" by the FDA has caused long term problems in a tiny fraction of the people who use them. Even over the counter medications kill and have severe side effects.



    Oh and you know once its FDA "approved" these morons will come up with yet another excuse not to take it or some other stupid conspiracy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hey btw what could possibly go wrong with people not getting vaccinated for their jobs....


    https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/0...e-search-site/

    At Least 6 Firefighters Test Positive For COVID At Surfside Condo Collapse Search Site
    I could see it causing immune issues down the line given the new way it works but your asking for people without a medical backround to tell you the possible side effects when the best in the field hold up their hands and say " we don't know yet let us do clinical trials"

    You want a hard yes or no answer when no one knows the answer.
    Last edited by Krakan; 2021-07-03 at 08:08 PM.

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