Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Edge-]

People don't like fence sitters, it makes people mad, I get that but whatever. I'm not a leader, I don't have tough decisions to make so I'll sit on my fence thank you very much.

I mean...this is kinda silly. I'm usually a fence sitter, but there are a number of issues you don't, or can't, "sit on the fence" for because there's no fence to sit on. You have to pick a "side". And global pandemics are one of those. I'm no leader and have no desires to be a leader, but that has nothing to do with realizing that some issues you can fence sit on, and some you can't.

Technically he's a Nurse trainer PHD who trained Nurses. He makes new videos on all new research on a daily basis so you should expect it to be a bit hit and miss. I saw the drama about the Japan vid but he retracted the claims about Japan and Ivermectin after some Japanese people claimed it wasn't really the case. Ivermectin is a topic I won't get into because I know nothing about it, it's used in some places to treat the virus but it's not used here.

But the thing is that's a HUGE mistake on his part and calls into question his methodology across all his research, as well as how much he's allowing his biases to impact his hypothesis and data. I mean, as far as I can tell from some casual research it was never actually prescribed in Japan in meaningful numbers, it was just a bunch of rando's on Twitter pointing to the coincidental drop in cases after the authorization for the use of ivermectin...despite the fact that there was no actual connection between the two outside of timing.

I think the problem is if you discuss any new data/studies and you're doing it as soon as the stuff hits the wild you're going to end up hit/miss a bit.

Yes, this has been the case from the very start. And it's a source of, for example, all the "studies" that promoted snake oil like ivermectin. This is why many in this thread have been repeatedly warning not to take pre-published and non-peer reviewed studies with as much credibility, especially if their conclusions are wildly out of line with everything else we're seeing right now.

But watch some of his stuff, he's very knowledgeable and contrary to what your post might suggest here he's very strongly in the pro-vaccine camp and in line with the general concensus.

I mean...based on what you've posted here about him and what little research I've done today, I see no reason why he should be a remotely credible source of information about covid.

This guy is a nurse educator, not an infectious disease specialist or anything that would actually give him any unique or informed insight about the virus. And given the quality of his "conclusions" so far, I'd feel confident saying that while he may be an excellent nurse educator, he's absolutely not an expert infectious disease expert. Nor am I.

[Bigbazz]

The corpses of members of my community due to vaccine and Covid misinformation pushed by the likes of you and Rogan has, in fact, made this into a battlefield.

You just lack the stones to admit you fired shots.

By all means show me where I have pushed misinformation? I haven't made any statements at all regarding COVID or vaccines, let alone "fired shots". If people have died from COVID because they aren't vaccinated that was their own choice to make, the unvaccinated here are a minority and most deaths occured before the vaccine was even available.

I don't know what is going on in rural America but it has nothing to do with me.

I mean...based on what you've posted here about him and what little research I've done today, I see no reason why he should be a remotely credible source of information about covid.

He shouldn't be considered a source, he's a commentator with a medical background looking at new research. You should use some common sense when taking in his information. The best he can do in that situation is just inform his viewers in the most transparent way and avoid interjecting his own opinions. I think he generally does a good job at that, that's why he has become popular as he always presents the latest data and research and tries to be transparent.

But as always, it's commentary and that's all, he cites his sources so you should go read them and take your own conclusions if you're interested, just like with everything else.

[Forogil]

Have you listened to the Joe Rogan podcast?

No.

I'm not sure it's a case of he wants credit, I think he is credited, at least his name is on several patents as I understand it and I don't think he is claiming to be the sole inventor.

Ehmm.. https://www.rwmalonemd.com/

I am an internationally recognized scientist/physician and the original inventor of mRNA vaccination as a technology, DNA vaccination, and multiple non-viral DNA and RNA/mRNA platform delivery technologies.

Note that the wikipedia page for mRNA vaccines is locked, some of that was due to extensive editing by Glasspool1 who allegedly is his wife.

[unfilteredJW]

By all means show me where I have pushed misinformation? I haven't made any statements at all regarding COVID or vaccines, let alone "fired shots". If people have died from COVID because they aren't vaccinated that was their own choice to make, the unvaccinated here are a minority and most deaths occured before the vaccine was even available.

I don't know what is going on in rural America but it has nothing to do with me.



He shouldn't be considered a source, he's a commentator with a medical background looking at new research. You should use some common sense when taking in his information. The best he can do in that situation is just inform his viewers in the most transparent way and avoid interjecting his own opinions. I think he generally does a good job at that, that's why he has become popular as he always presents the latest data and research and tries to be transparent.

But as always, it's commentary and that's all, he cites his sources so you should go read them and take your own conclusions if you're interested, just like with everything else.

You are literally here pushing bullshit from a podcast and a fucking nurse teacher with a YouTube channel.

[Bigbazz]

You are literally here pushing bullshit from a podcast and a fucking nurse teacher with a YouTube channel.

I haven't once mentioned Joe Rogan, though others have? And where is the misinformation from the nurse teacher that I am pushing? Data from South Africa regarding Omicron is now misinformation because a medical youtuber talked about it? This is you fabricating nonsense out of nowhere, exactly what I mean when I say it's not possible to discuss anything here.

Everything is misinformation to you if the bar for misinformation is simply any "information". So it's as I said earlier, it's not really possible to discuss the topic here on MMO champ, people are ready to pop off at every moment.

[Edge-]

Data from South Africa regarding Omicron is now misinformation because a medical youtuber talked about it? This is you fabricating nonsense out of nowhere, exactly what I mean when I say it's not possible to discuss anything here.

It seems that the "analysis" of the information is ignoring all context, like that most of the cases are reinfections, so the "conclusions" are fairly garbage misinformation. Much like the "ivermectin helped Japan beat covid" simply because the authorization came just before cases dropped...not because it was the CAUSE of the cases dropping.

Everything is misinformation to you if the bar for misinformation is simply any "information". So it's as I said earlier, it's not really possible to discuss the topic here on MMO champ, people are ready to pop off at every moment.

It has been, and is being discussed. The discussion is that we think this is garbage quality misinformation and you're unhappy with that. That's the conclusion of the discussion, which you don't appear to be happy with.l

[Forogil]

Blood clots have been known about since the early days, IIRC it was the AZ vaccine that was causing those issues too. And it seems that per the data, it's still beyond rare and that the risk of a blood clot is far, far, far lower than your risk of a serious/fatal case of covid if you're unvaccinated -

As far as I understand it also occurs for the J&J (or Janssen) vaccine, and likely all other adenovirus-vector vaccines, but not for the mRNA vaccines that instead have a lot rarer (at least in terms of serious problems) heart-issue; the other vaccines may or may not have side-effects - but they also seem less effective.

For AZ the risk of a blood clot isn't far, far lower than the risk of fatal case of covid if you are young enough (being female also shifts the balance - possibly higher risk of blood clots, and less risk of bad covid). It still seems that risk is lower at least if the risk of infection is close to 100%.

That's why many countries first switched to not using them for young persons, and then steer away from them completely. CDC in the US haven't authorized the AstraZeneca vaccine and are sort of steering away from the Janssen vaccine. People are also working on improving them - but the simplest solution is to take another kind of vaccine. However, it's a bit messy since countries want to keep them a bit "authorized", since only people vaccinated with an authorized vaccine is counted as vaccinated in vaccine passports, etc.

[unfilteredJW]

I haven't once mentioned Joe Rogan, though others have? And where is the misinformation from the nurse teacher that I am pushing? Data from South Africa regarding Omicron is now misinformation because a medical youtuber talked about it? This is you fabricating nonsense out of nowhere, exactly what I mean when I say it's not possible to discuss anything here.

Everything is misinformation to you if the bar for misinformation is simply any "information". So it's as I said earlier, it's not really possible to discuss the topic here on MMO champ, people are ready to pop off at every moment.

We are discussing.

You just haven’t brought anything to the table that isn’t misinterpreted data or outright falsehoods so they’ve been summarily dismissed.

[Lenonis]

It's not a problem, it's a positive.

Nope. Because the middle ground between facts and misinformation is "some misinformation". That is what your are bragging about being. It's not the virtue you seem to think it is.

[Forogil]

Very unlikely scenario. Prior to Omicron, cases, hospitalization and mortality due to Delta were on a long-term steady downward trend in the US. The current increase in hospitalization, and the upward tick in mortality started well after Omicron became the dominant variant.

I agree that it's unlikely that the hospitalizations now are due to Delta.

However, hospitalizations started increasing in the US already in early November before Omicron got dominant; likely due to some seasonal effects causing rising cases (a bit earlier) and possibly waning protection from vaccines. Deaths don't have a clear trend in that time period in the US. Omicron took the twin issue of seasonal effects and waning vaccine-protection to the next level.

[PACOX]

Just in case you didn't know, you need your 3rd shot if your are 6 months past being 'fully vaccinated'. The only reason why you are still considered 'fully vaccinated' with just 2 shots is because the CDC has given up/given in when it comes to anti-vaxxers and a proper vaccination schedule has yet to be determined. What is known is that protection from hospitalization/illness plummets after 6 months.

[Breccia]

Just in case you didn't know, you need your 3rd shot if your are 6 months past being 'fully vaccinated'. The only reason why you are still considered 'fully vaccinated' with just 2 shots is because the CDC has given up/given in when it comes to anti-vaxxers and a proper vaccination schedule has yet to be determined. What is known is that protection from hospitalization/illness plummets after 6 months.

The optimistic hope is, omicron is a signal that variants will get less lethal, and in the end we'll just have a once/year "flu" shot. We'll find out.

[PhaelixWW]

Just in case you didn't know, you need your 3rd shot if your are 6 months past being 'fully vaccinated'. The only reason why you are still considered 'fully vaccinated' with just 2 shots is because the CDC has given up/given in when it comes to anti-vaxxers and a proper vaccination schedule has yet to be determined. What is known is that protection from hospitalization/illness plummets after 6 months.

No, that's false on several levels.

Fully vaccinated is still fully vaccinated. Boosters are separate. This is not "because the CDC has given up". This is largely because, as opposed to what you said, protection does not "plummet" after 6 months. The protection against reinfection wanes far more gradually than can be described as "plummeting". And that's just reinfections. The vaccine continues to protect against serious illness (hospitalizations) long past 6 months.





The big factor right now is that omicron is causing massive amounts of breakthrough infections because of its difference from the original virus, not because it's been 6 months since most vaccinations. And the vaccines are still providing great prevention against hospitalization, even against omicron.

That being said, the booster will only help your immune system, and even reinfection is worth preventing, even if it's a mild case, because that will help slow the spread.

[Forogil]

No, that's false on several levels.

Fully vaccinated is still fully vaccinated. Boosters are separate.

Depends on the country, CDC in the US are discussing a change and the uk is planning it (as well as other countries):

The redefinition hasn't happened yet, but the plan is indeed to change the definition - https://inews.co.uk/news/health/full...quired-1352884

Israel already seems to have changed the definition, and you are only fully vaccinated for 6 months (which effectively requires boosters) - https://www.touristisrael.com/when-w...-resume/31963/

The big factor right now is that omicron is causing massive amounts of breakthrough infections because of its difference from the original virus, not because it's been 6 months since most vaccinations. And the vaccines are still providing great prevention against hospitalization, even against omicron.

I'm not sure we have data to say that it is 'great' for all vaccines, but even if were just 'good' it's still a lot better than 'none'.

[Edge-]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/florid...s-with-omicron

And anti-covid cultists can't even take responsibility for their own fuckups. Omicron is absolutely brutalizing Florida right now because, unsurprisingly, spending the past year and a half rejecting CDC and medical advice and guidance, after selling "fauci ouchie" shirts, after promoting snake oil treatments that don't work, after repeatedly bragging about how they were rejecting all medical advice, while continuing to have fairly middling vaccination rates with a SG that is a fuckin vaccine skeptic...and apparently their current situation where covid is absolutely kicking their asses is all the fault of the federal government. Oh, and other states are all "hysterical" for trying to protect their constituents.

Man, Florida really did elect Florida Man to run the state. I'm just surprised they haven't found him with his dick in an crocodile or with an inexplicable briefcase of cicada moltings that he won't explain.

[PhaelixWW]

Depends on the country, CDC in the US are discussing a change and the uk is planning it (as well as other countries)

They're considering changing it only because it will effectively change what certain legal requirements are in some areas, rather than having to change the laws themselves.

It doesn't really mean that being vaccinated really changes.

Regardless, the statement of "fully vaccinated is still fully vaccinated" stands, unless you're in Israel.

[tehdang]

And anti-covid cultists can't even take responsibility for their own fuckups. Omicron is absolutely brutalizing Florida right now because, unsurprisingly, spending the past year and a half rejecting CDC and medical advice and guidance, after selling "fauci ouchie" shirts, after promoting snake oil treatments that don't work, after repeatedly bragging about how they were rejecting all medical advice, while continuing to have fairly middling vaccination rates with a SG that is a fuckin vaccine skeptic...and apparently their current situation where covid is absolutely kicking their asses is all the fault of the federal government. Oh, and other states are all "hysterical" for trying to protect their constituents.

Man, Florida really did elect Florida Man to run the state. I'm just surprised they haven't found him with his dick in an crocodile or with an inexplicable briefcase of cicada moltings that he won't explain.

You’re right in the sense that COVID is brutalizing the US and Florida is unexceptional in that regards. But it’s also heavily populated in terms of bulk numbers infected or hospitalizations, so you have to look at per capita numbers to get perspective.

CDC data: Florida is neither in the top 25 of states in terms of cases, nor in the top 25 of states in terms of deaths over the past week.

Say what you will about his approach and contrapositives on lives saved. But it hasn’t been bad down there for several weeks now compared to the rest of the nation as a backdrop. If you rewind the tape to the seasonal surge affecting the southeast, then you’d have grounds to say Florida is exceptionally bad among states in the nation, but nowadays it’s other states that are really looking bad in the numbers. EG New York and California look worse on every metric. Nothing particular about Florida is happening now that isn’t somewhat worse or much worse in other states, quite detached from differences in policy and optics.

[PACOX]

No, that's false on several levels.

Fully vaccinated is still fully vaccinated. Boosters are separate. This is not "because the CDC has given up". This is largely because, as opposed to what you said, protection does not "plummet" after 6 months. The protection against reinfection wanes far more gradually than can be described as "plummeting". And that's just reinfections. The vaccine continues to protect against serious illness (hospitalizations) long past 6 months.





The big factor right now is that omicron is causing massive amounts of breakthrough infections because of its difference from the original virus, not because it's been 6 months since most vaccinations. And the vaccines are still providing great prevention against hospitalization, even against omicron.

That being said, the booster will only help your immune system, and even reinfection is worth preventing, even if it's a mild case, because that will help slow the spread.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2115926


Edit: lost a post a was going to write early. It could be that 3 (the same way JJ is and should have always been 2 jabs) jabs was always the magic number for the body to learn how to combat COVID on its own. Could be more, but we hope it doesn't go that route because 'over-vaccination' is a thing if you're not targeting the right markers. It's like when you have to 'unlearn' the way you have been doing something for years as each jab teaches the body to be better at detecting and eliminating its target.

Eventually the vaccines will be reformulated towards the dominant variants. Luck permitting, only the newly vaccinated will actually need it and 3 of the current formulations will be enough for those who have it now.

[PhaelixWW]

You’re right in the sense that COVID is brutalizing the US and Florida is unexceptional in that regards.

Wait, what? Florida is anything but "unexceptional in that regard".

On 12/10, Florida had almost the lowest amount of COVID transmission, second only to Hawaii.




By 12/26, it was one of only a handful of states in the highest tier of this heatmap.




By 12/31, it was third behind only New York and New Jersey.

But it’s also heavily populated in terms of bulk numbers infected or hospitalizations, so you have to look at per capita numbers to get perspective.

That heatmap is based on per capita numbers...

[Edge-]

You’re right in the sense that COVID is brutalizing the US and Florida is unexceptional in that regards. But it’s also heavily populated in terms of bulk numbers infected or hospitalizations, so you have to look at per capita numbers to get perspective.

CDC data: Florida is neither in the top 25 of states in terms of cases, nor in the top 25 of states in terms of deaths over the past week.

Because Florida doesn't have a history of fudging their numbers since...well, the start of this shit. Or issuing repeat corrections to their suspiciously low numbers that bring the back in-line with previous numbers.

The problem with this opinion is it can only be held if one believes Florida, under DeSantis and their new Surgeon General - the guy who, literally today, is talking about how people need to stop focusing on testing so much and just live their lives. Because it's not like we're in a pandemic with what is the most contagious variant by overwhelming hospitals. Again.

i.e. be in completely bad faith

- - - Updated - - -

By 12/31, it was third behind only New York and New Jersey.

Weird, almost as if this is a pattern that's been repeating for over a year. Has been heavily discussed in the media and this thread. And still some folks are, or pretend to be, completely unaware of this pattern of behavior.