1. #5641
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    In my country they're telling people not to use or buy masks because it doesn't work. They say it gives a false sense of security even if used properly. I wonder if it really doesn't work or if they're saying that because there's a severe shortage of it and if people keep buying them there won't be enough for medical personnel

    Even if that's the case they should be transparent about it.
    Face masks alone are not effective method of protecting yourself if you are still healthy yourself. You also need to cover your eyes so that the virus doesn't get in contact with your mucous membranes when you interact with infected people.

    For people who are already infected, face masks prevent them from spewing infectious droplets around when they cough.

  2. #5642
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Face masks alone are not effective method of protecting yourself if you are still healthy yourself. You also need to cover your eyes so that the virus doesn't get in contact with your mucous membranes when you interact with infected people.

    For people who are already infected, face masks prevent them from spewing infectious droplets around when they cough.
    They're not saying it isn't enough, they're saying outright that people shouldn't buy them because they don't work at all

  3. #5643
    Over 9000! Yunru's Avatar
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    This is what is happening in canada right now:

  4. #5644
    Gotta say I enjoy less crowds and less people overall outside.

  5. #5645
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    The Gutter Oil will not avail you, SOUP OF WÙHAN!

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  6. #5646
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    They're not saying it isn't enough, they're saying outright that people shouldn't buy them because they don't work at all
    It is true that people could misuse them and get lulled into false sense of security, and then spread the disease even more with risky behaviour.

  7. #5647
    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Gotta say I enjoy less crowds and less people overall outside.
    Exactly the opposite for me. My usual trails where I walk outside of city, which are usually somewhat empty, are now full of people. Everyone is staying away from each other, but still way too many people there. Nearby parking places are full of cars. Too many people are trying to get away from city.

    So my current solution is to walk obscure old trails that aren't known to many people and aren't as easy to get to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame
    Most people are imbeciles. Twitter is just a way for them to demonstrate it.

  8. #5648
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    It is true that people could misuse them and get lulled into false sense of security, and then spread the disease even more with risky behaviour.
    How many people in eastern countries do you see without a mask in the street? They're doing a good job of containing the situation while we're telling our people not to use a mask because they're too dumb to use it. Educate them how to use it, don't spread misinformation because it's convenient.

  9. #5649
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    In my country they're telling people not to use or buy masks because it doesn't work. They say it gives a false sense of security even if used properly. I wonder if it really doesn't work or if they're saying that because there's a severe shortage of it and if people keep buying them there won't be enough for medical personnel

    Even if that's the case they should be transparent about it.
    Masks don't work, you need n99 or something like that. Mask is there to protect others from you not you from others. Virus can get inside your body through eyes, touch your face without even realizing 100+ times each day, you touch your eyes and everything....

  10. #5650
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Masks don't work, you need n99 or something like that. Mask is there to protect others from you not you from others. Virus can get inside your body through eyes, touch your face without even realizing 100+ times each day, you touch your eyes and everything....
    I wonder why all doctors use them, I'm sure they're like imbeciles to you oh wise one

  11. #5651
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I wonder why all doctors use them, I'm sure they're like imbeciles to you oh wise one
    Because doctors also wear eye protection.

  12. #5652
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Coincidentally, all countries that had experience with SARS and other related viruses. They are also much more on point with things like public hygiene, masks being one of them - I read a thread on Twitter by a Japanese person explaining why you see them so much even during the ''healthy'' periods - it shows that you're part of the team, allowing others to relax near you.
    There's also the fact that their population is generally healthier than western countries which have insanely high obesity rates.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Hydoxychloroquine is quite safe if used in short term and at correct doses (and at this point, we DONT know what are the correct doses for the treatment of COVID-19, more research is necessary). Dosing is paramount in this, in order to avoid liver/heart/kidney failures. Even paracetamol can kill you if you take 4 or 5 in a day, but at the correct dosage is quite safe, for people that take it commonly.
    There's also the problem the people who are most likely affected by this will have underlying conditions that have to do with heart/liver/kidney and lungs. It's a very complicated tight rope using these drugs and you are flying blind, the Chinese used it because China but you can't afford to be that loose in the US I can only imagine the lawsuits.

  13. #5653
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Because doctors also wear eye protection.
    The problem here is that it's incorrect to say masks are useless. They're not and I never said they're enough by itself. At this point you're either arguing for the sake of it or being obtuse for the same reason

  14. #5654
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    The problem here is that it's incorrect to say masks are useless. They're not and I never said they're enough by itself. At this point you're either arguing for the sake of it or being obtuse for the same reason
    The average person shouldn't buy masks because they are put to better use by medical personnel, and they are useless to the average person unless they also wear eye protection and know enough about how viruses spread through surfaces and human contact. Average person that hoards masks and then gets the infection because they are too dumb to realize that the mask doesn't magically protect you 100% will just further spread the virus.

  15. #5655
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Exactly the opposite for me. My usual trails where I walk outside of city, which are usually somewhat empty, are now full of people. Everyone is staying away from each other, but still way too many people there. Nearby parking places are full of cars. Too many people are trying to get away from city.

    So my current solution is to walk obscure old trails that aren't known to many people and aren't as easy to get to.
    Yeah that sucks but good you know some trails atleast that many others don't know exists, hope it stays that way too
    Last edited by ParanoiD84; 2020-03-23 at 11:57 AM.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  16. #5656
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I wonder why all doctors use them, I'm sure they're like imbeciles to you oh wise one
    They have been taught how to use them properly and they are suppose to replace them in between patients. Masks do not help to prevent you from getting the virus as the person you quoted said.

    I would even say that wearing a mask gives you a false sense of safety making you even more careless than you would be otherwise. Do you wash your hands every time you touch a high traffic surface? doubt it. Let us keep the masks for those who actually give care, they need them to protect themselves, people walking around not infected with them in the open air are wasting masks.

  17. #5657
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    In my country they're telling people not to use or buy masks because it doesn't work. They say it gives a false sense of security even if used properly. I wonder if it really doesn't work or if they're saying that because there's a severe shortage of it and if people keep buying them there won't be enough for medical personnel

    Even if that's the case they should be transparent about it.
    It's probably a result of your country (any mine, it's similar here) not being accustomed to masks, unlike Japan. I lived over there for a while and my friends there explained to me that they are extra careful when wearing these masks to not infect anyone else and that it is fairly common to wear them. But in my own country, people I talked to thought that just wearing a mask would be enough, since you can't cough or breathe in the virus from others, when that is not enough to either ensure you don't infect others, or to not get infected.
    In essence, masks only work in conjunction with other public and personal hygiene measures, not just by themselves. Someone who thinks that a mask alone will be enough is a potential health risk to those around them because of that false sense of security - or because they are not really handling the mask correctly, which can negate all its benefits entirely. Your government is not really wrong in that sense, they are just trying to be a bit more simplistic I guess. Masks can help if you know what you are doing and why, but for most of the population, just buying a random mask and putting it on is pointless. Especially since it doesn't help against most of the common ways to get infected, i.e. touching things or people. They are mostly effective in limiting your own spread, or when you are in close contact with someone who is infected, like being a caretaker. But for the general population, they aren't that useful, especially when people are not used to using them, with most masks being wasted entirely and some people thinking they can disregard all other measures because they are wearing a mask.

    The general shortage is probably part of the reason as well. But your government probably wants you to not wear masks even if you bought them first, not buy them second.

  18. #5658
    Titan I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-lau...210318391.html

    This Nobel Laureate seems to think things aren't so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mozingo, LA Times
    Michael Levitt, a Nobel laureate and Stanford biophysicist, began analyzing the number of COVID-19 cases worldwide in January and correctly calculated that China would get through the worst of its coronavirus outbreak long before many health experts had predicted.

    Now he foresees a similar outcome in the United States and the rest of the world.

    While many epidemiologists are warning of months, or even years, of massive social disruption and millions of deaths, Levitt says the data simply don't support such a dire scenario — especially in areas where reasonable social distancing measures are in place.

    "What we need is to control the panic," he said. In the grand scheme, "we're going to be fine."

    Here's what Levitt noticed in China: On Jan. 31, the country had 46 new deaths due to the novel coronavirus, compared with 42 new deaths the day before.

    Although the number of daily deaths had increased, the rate of that increase had begun to ease off. Essentially, although the car was still speeding up, it was not accelerating as rapidly as before.

    “This suggests that the rate of increase in number of the deaths will slow down even more over the next week,” Levitt wrote in a report he sent to friends Feb. 1 that was widely shared on Chinese social media. And soon, he predicted, the number of deaths would be decreasing every day.

    Three weeks later, Levitt told the China Daily News that the virus' rate of growth had peaked. He predicted that the total number of confirmed COVID-19 cases in China would end up around 80,000, with about 3,250 deaths.

    This forecast turned out to be remarkably accurate: As of March 16, China had counted a total of 80,298 cases and 3,245 deaths — in a nation of nearly 1.4 billion people where roughly 10 million die every year. The number of newly diagnosed patients has dropped to around 25 a day, with no cases of community spread reported since Wednesday.

    Now Levitt, who received the 2013 Nobel Prize in chemistry for developing complex models of chemical systems, is seeing similar turning points in other nations, even ones that did not instill the draconian isolation measures that China did.

    He analyzed 78 countries with more than 50 reported cases of COVID-19 every day and sees "signs of recovery." He's not looking at cumulative cases, but the number of new cases every day — and the percentage growth in that number from one day to the next.

    "Numbers are still noisy but there are clear signs of slowed growth."

    In Iran, for instance, the number of newly confirmed COVID-19 cases remained relatively flat last week, from 1,133 on Monday to 1,148 on Friday.

    Of course, recovering from an initial outbreak doesn't mean the virus won't come back: China is now fighting to stop new waves of infection coming in from places where the virus is spreading out of control. Other countries are bound to face the same problem as well.

    Levitt acknowledges that his figures are messy, and that the official case counts in many areas are too low because testing is spotty. But even with incomplete data, "a consistent decline means there's some factor at work that is not just noise in the numbers," he said.

    The trajectory of deaths backs up his findings, he said. So do data from outbreaks in confined environments, such as the one on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Out of 3,711 people on board, 712 were infected and eight died. In his view, this unintended experiment in coronavirus spread will help researchers estimate the number of fatalities that would occur in a fully infected population.

    Levitt said the social-distancing mandates are critical — particularly the ban on large gatherings — because the virus is so new that the population has no immunity to it and a vaccine is still many months away. "This is not the time to go out drinking with your buddies."

    Getting vaccinated against the flu is important because a coronavirus outbreak that strikes in the middle of a flu epidemic is much more likely to overwhelm hospitals and increases the odds that the coronavirus goes undetected. This was probably a factor in Italy, a country with a strong anti-vaccine movement, he said.

    But he also blames the media for causing unnecessary panic by focusing on the relentless increase in the cumulative number of cases and spotlighting celebrities who contract the virus. By contrast, the flu has sickened 36 million Americans since September and killed an estimated 22,000, according to the CDC, but those deaths are largely unreported.

    He fears the public health measures that have shut down large swaths of the economy could cause their own health catastrophe, as lost jobs lead to poverty and hopelessness. Time and again, researchers have seen that suicide rates go up when the economy spirals down.

    The virus can grow exponentially only when it is undetected and no one is acting to control it, Levitt said. That's what happened in South Korea, when it ripped through a closed-off cult that refused to report the illness.

    "People need to be considered heroes for announcing they have this virus," he said.

    The goal needs to be better early detection — not just through testing but perhaps with body temperature surveillance, which China is implementing — and immediate social isolation.

    While the COVID-19 fatality rate appears to be significantly higher than that of the flu, Levitt says it is quite simply put, "not the end of the world."

    Based on the experience of the Diamond Princess, he estimates that being exposed to the new coronavirus doubles a person's risk of dying in the next two months. However, most people have an extremely low risk of death in a two-month period, and that risk remains extremely low even when doubled.

    "The real situation is not as nearly as terrible as they make it out to be," he said.

  19. #5659
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Push Buttons View Post
    https://news.yahoo.com/why-nobel-lau...210318391.html

    This Nobel Laureate seems to think things aren't so bad.
    Maybe he is right, the problem is you can lift a lock down and reboot the economy through stimulus, you cannot enforce a lockdown when things get worse as it will be less effective and the economy will be harder to start up amidst chaos.

    But you have to read his message in context when he claims the media is creating panic, he is right because when he looks at the media he sees this;

    "While many epidemiologists are warning of months, or even years, of massive social disruption and millions of deaths, Levitt says the data simply don't support such a dire scenario — especially in areas where reasonable social distancing measures are in place."

    Overall we will be fine and the measures are needed right now, as his growth models are based on those measures.

    "Levitt said the social-distancing mandates are critical — particularly the ban on large gatherings — because the virus is so new that the population has no immunity to it and a vaccine is still many months away. "This is not the time to go out drinking with your buddies."


    Highlighting these, because with all due respect to most people here but he average MMO-Champ reading and comprehension skills are terrible.

  20. #5660
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Maybe he is right, the problem is you can lift a lock down and reboot the economy through stimulus, you cannot enforce a lockdown when things get worse as it will be less effective and the economy will be harder to start up amidst chaos.

    But you have to read his message in context when he claims the media is creating panic, he is right because when he looks at the media he sees this;

    "While many epidemiologists are warning of months, or even years, of massive social disruption and millions of deaths, Levitt says the data simply don't support such a dire scenario — especially in areas where reasonable social distancing measures are in place."

    Overall we will be fine and the measures are needed right now, as his growth models are based on those measures.

    "Levitt said the social-distancing mandates are critical — particularly the ban on large gatherings — because the virus is so new that the population has no immunity to it and a vaccine is still many months away. "This is not the time to go out drinking with your buddies."


    Highlighting these, because with all due respect to most people here but he average MMO-Champ reading and comprehension skills are terrible.
    I really don't mind the media overblowing the seriousness of this situation. The average person is basically borderline retarded, and if they don't get hammered 24/7 with doomsday messaging, they will relax and make the situation into the doomsday scenario that they are threatened with.

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