Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Acidbaron]

Since the UK decided to go into full lockdown today it seems The Netherlands and the US are the only remaining western holdouts. The Dutch government continues to think people will use "good sense" to thwart the virus and Trump thinks keeping his rich friends rich is more important than ensuring that the healthcare system isn't overrun costing a few million lives.

I'm getting a feeling the government here in the Netherlands will finally buckle towards the end of the week and issue a full lockdown (especially as pressure/outright rage from neighbor countries increases and the number of infected keeps increasing). Sounds like several States are rightfully giving Trump the middle finger and saying they'll keep lockdowns and precautions in place as long as necessary.

So, work last night was pretty brutal since 3 of the 5 head operators--of which I am one--called out sick, leaving us with a tiny, tiny pool of "uitzendkrachten" (temps) who didn't know what the fuck they were doing. This is through no fault of their own since any uzk we get are supposed to have a week of training under an experienced employee and these folks are just getting thrown into it and essentially left to fend for themselves since we're so shorthanded thanks to all the people calling out (whether they're sick or "sick"). I ended up leaving an hour and a half late and I expect it's going to get worse as this week goes on. Gosh, I wonder how an exhaustion-induced compromised immune system is going to fare the upcoming months...

Best way to learn an operator job and see if they can manage it is throwing them into the deep end :P

It is going to be very hectic and crazy when things restart at my end up again. Dutch government is going to regret this wait and see approach. To be fair they are pretty solid in compensating companies though, what means i get paid my full wage as they compensate the companies losses. Big difference from in Belgium where people only get 70% of their wage + some other compensation measures.

It is really odd to me, why react well on some fronts and do things half on others, it makes no sense to me.

[Belize]

Best way to learn an operator job and see if they can manage it is throwing them into the deep end :P

Until they push the big red button on the DCS and shutdown the plant

[Forogil]

More so the Profit driven penny pinches that lead us to be short on Medical supplies, ventilators, Hospital closures throughout rural America that we currently have.

We have highly educated experts who handle exactly these situations. You put them in charge of response.

Who is currently in charge? Who do you think would be in charge of allocating resources if hospitals were nationalized?

[Frozenbeef]

Just reading some news regarding Trump and his supporters wanting the country to reopen and return to normal...like no sh#t sherlock, that's what everyone wants but opening up too soon would have made your entire experience pointless.

[Acidbaron]

Until they push the big red button on the DCS and shutdown the plant

Depends on the installation, at my end it tends to shut down only that section and cells near it. What is still no fun as robots need to be restarted and processes need to be checked what was finished and what was not.

Wouldn't be the first time though

[noremorze]

It's been more than a week under this policy so far and nothing has changed--apart from the hairdressers also voluntarily closing on Monday.

Hairdressers and beauty therapist etc are actually forced to stop working until at least the 6th of April and it's not voluntarily, people will get fined in groups of 3 who don't adhere to the 1.5m rule, (grocery) shops are forced to have a new policy when it comes to how many people are allowed inside (which alot are already doing now), Mayors have new powers to close things that are deemed a health risk, including shops. There were still alot of imbeciles who went to the beach and/or park, but that also had changed for the most part the next day. Most streets are empty, nothing changed you say?

[Zaktar]

General guideline, when you're asking the same question as The Don, you probably lack any quantifiable knowledge to understand the topic you're asking about and the answer you might be given.

"The cure cannot be worse than the problem" is a medical principal, and medicine can be incredibly cruel, cold and calculating. If you want an example, look to Spain, where, reportedly, doctors are forced to remove ventilators from older patients in favor of younger ones. And medicine is not above sacrificing to save the bigger picture, with the patients consent, of course.

But a virus is not a rotting limb, and it doesn't kill 'the feeble' only, they are just significantly more likely to die from exposure to, well, anything. And before we start sacrificing in medicine, we exhaust all other options.

And we're not talking about saving one percent, we're talking about saving many, many more people. Because if you bump infection rates, there won't be enough ventilators to save all of the 'healthy' people in critical condition. A virus infects and kills indiscriminately. As it currently stands and develops, with the average social circle we have in the west, you're likely to lose one acquaintance to Cocid-19 within the next year. So, whom amongst your family, friends and coworkers would you be willing to 'not make the cut'?



You're kidding, right? Marijuana isn't 'generally good' for you, it doesn't help with respiratory distress whatsoever, especially when you smoke it. Just because something is 'medicinal' doesn't mean it's nothing but beneficial to you.



Of course not. Who remembers things like the Black Death or the Spanish Flu?

People forget too that it won't just be victims of the virus who die in a scenario where we just leave the "weak" to die. Our healthcare system will become congested, and many more people will die as a result, otherwise perfectly healthy, strong, "valuable" people. This accepts the premise that people who die as a result of the virus are in any way weak, which of course is also stupid nonsense.

As is the notion that capitalism is in some way an angel to be worshiped for saving us, or a demon to be shunned. It's part tool for exchanging labor, goods, and ideas, part lens through which we interpret the kinds of decisions we have to make. Only look through that lens, and you'll make poor, distorted decisions. Fail to understand what can be seen through it, and you'll make ignorant decisions. It can't be used to answer moral questions, just to inform them, but too many people in this thread and in the world think of it as a compass.

[Altrec]

The bill didn’t pass because it had bailouts for giant corporations without any kind of limitations. So theoretically a corporation could receive millions and give it all to the CEO as a raise. Dems want to make sure the money goes to help the employees hurt by this virus and not just line more rich peoples’ pockets.

The stimulus did give money to corporations and small businesses half in fact and the other half went to the American people. This isn't bailouts for failing businesses like last time it is help so these businesses can continue to employ the millions that need those jobs. The democrats plan on the other hand had a bunch of BS in it that has nothing to do with the current crisis unless of course you think getting reports on gender an race makeup of board of directors of companies or extra funding for arts programs and whole list of other nonsense that is irrelevant to what is going on is a good thing then sure blame the republicans.

[Zan15]

Am I, and President Trump, the only one asking this question?

Since last November 12,000,000 people across the globe have died and would have quite normally with or without the discovery of Coronavirus back then. Circa 150,000 die every day across the world of some cause.

Current global deaths from Coronavirus since last November, 4 months ago, right now are stated as around 18,000 - an infinitesimally small number by comparison. Many of those are near the end of life and would have perished under normal circumstances in any case within a short time.

So is Trump right when he tweets today that "THE CURE CANNOT BE WORSE (by far) THAN THE PROBLEM!"

Is it fair that 100% of the world population pay the price, have their and their childrens way of lives destroyed to protect the 1%, the vast majority of whom are already at or close to end of life.

This shutdown of the world cannot go on forever and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case. How long are you all prepared to stay effectively under house arrest for to try in vain to save the 1%? 3 weeks, months, years, perhaps the rest of your life? Shouldn't the mainly weak and feeble 1% be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice so that the 99% surviving can lead normal lives again?

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case


I mean really???
How far in the sand is your head. half way to china??

I mean this is simple virology you know right?


You saying we bounced back from 1918, 1929, the 30's, two world wars, 1987, 2009...etc etc etc....but we won't bounce back from this?


You are talking about more people dying in this country than die across the globe normally based on your numbers, you know that right?

[Zan15]

The stimulus did give money to corporations and small businesses half in fact and the other half went to the American people. This isn't bailouts for failing businesses like last time it is help so these businesses can continue to employ the millions that need those jobs. The democrats plan on the other hand had a bunch of BS in it that has nothing to do with the current crisis unless of course you think getting reports on gender an race makeup of board of directors of companies or extra funding for arts programs and whole list of other nonsense that is irrelevant to what is going on is a good thing then sure blame the republicans.

little correction

The stimulus LOANED and took collateral for money to corporations...…

Not sure how people (not saying you) can be against something that turned a profit for taxpayers?

[Acidbaron]

People forget too that it won't just be victims of the virus who die in a scenario where we just leave the "weak" to die. Our healthcare system will become congested, and many more people will die as a result, otherwise perfectly healthy, strong, "valuable" people. This accepts the premise that people who die as a result of the virus are in any way weak, which of course is also stupid nonsense.

As is the notion that capitalism is in some way an angel to be worshiped for saving us, or a demon to be shunned. It's part tool for exchanging labor, goods, and ideas, part lens through which we interpret the kinds of decisions we have to make. Only look through that lens, and you'll make poor, distorted decisions. Fail to understand what can be seen through it, and you'll make ignorant decisions. It can't be used to answer moral questions, just to inform them, but too many people in this thread and in the world think of it as a compass.

People also forget that hospitals are needed for other things than Covid-19, let just the weak die considering the virus wrecks havoc on young people lungs is dumb.

The virus isn't selecting who is strong or weak it is attacking at indiscriminately and we don't know what factors are in play. It is also the case that if your antibodies work too well that you may die from this.

- - - Updated - - -

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case

and doesn't seem to be preventing the transmission rate in any case


I mean really???
How far in the sand is your head. half way to china??

I mean this is simple virology you know right?


You saying we bounced back from 1918, 1929, the 30's, two world wars, 1987, 2009...etc etc etc....but we won't bounce back from this?


You are talking about more people dying in this country than die across the globe normally based on your numbers, you know that right?

Person you are responding to is not worth any time of day, the brexit thread is testament to this.

[Zaktar]

People also forget that hospitals are needed for other things than Covid-19, let just the weak die considering the virus wrecks havoc on young people lungs is dumb.

The virus isn't selecting who is strong or weak it is attacking at indiscriminately and we don't know what factors are in play. It is also the case that if your antibodies work too well that you may die from this.

I wasn't very clear but that's what I meant, people who get into accidents, have heart attacks, other diseases, etc. The collateral death toll would be significant. Really hope we prioritize slowing the infection rate.

[Benggaul]

Best way to learn an operator job and see if they can manage it is throwing them into the deep end :P

It is going to be very hectic and crazy when things restart at my end up again. Dutch government is going to regret this wait and see approach. To be fair they are pretty solid in compensating companies though, what means i get paid my full wage as they compensate the companies losses. Big difference from in Belgium where people only get 70% of their wage + some other compensation measures.

It is really odd to me, why react well on some fronts and do things half on others, it makes no sense to me.

Well this is part of why it's so nonsensical to me that they aren't doing a lockdown now. They've already demonstrated willingness to compensate businesses (to pay employees), so it'd be FAR better to have a 3 week lockdown (possibly more, maybe a month?) and let the healthcare system keep up with cases and then let us go back to work a month later, then possibly do another lockdown if hospitals are getting overwhelmed again rather than what they're doing now which pretty much ensures things are going to go wahooni-shaped in short order.

[breadisfunny]

Shouldn't the mainly weak and feeble 1% be prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice so that the 99% surviving can lead normal lives again?

you really need to stop watching the movie 300. this isn't sparta so no we are not going to send our weak out to die so everyone else can keep on going.

[Benggaul]

Until they push the big red button on the DCS and shutdown the plant

Haha, not that kind of operator, thankfully. The worst that could happen is another machine would have to be used while the one they were working on reboots. hehe

[Tuor]

This music fits here very well

Everything will change.

[Acidbaron]

Well this is part of why it's so nonsensical to me that they aren't doing a lockdown now. They've already demonstrated willingness to compensate businesses (to pay employees), so it'd be FAR better to have a 3 week lockdown (possibly more, maybe a month?) and let the healthcare system keep up with cases and then let us go back to work a month later, then possibly do another lockdown if hospitals are getting overwhelmed again rather than what they're doing now which pretty much ensures things are going to go wahooni-shaped in short order.

Oh i figured you did, was merely further elaborating. People have such a narrow view on this, people are also greatly underestimating how bad this will get. We aren't near the peak yet, one week from now things are going to look far more grim.

[Gaidax]

Currently the profit driven model is still in charge. If you nationalize you can hand over response to a dedicated team of experts or even to the US Army. It isn't outside the realms of possibility as the order Trump signed gives him pretty broad authority.

citation needed

I don't know what's going on in US with that (but I do think it's silly to think that Trump is anything more than mouthpiece for the advisers and experts behind him engaging in epic tug of war, that is understandable actually), but for example locally - you have absolute heated battles between healthcare and economy professionals with all the respective accreditation and qualifications daily on what steps should be done next and in long term.

PM and even Minister of Health just end up going up on stream and telling us what was decided for the day bottom line. They can give directions, but PM is not the one tapping his foot on the floor and tossing out random directives at his whim.

[Unholyground]

You're kidding, right? Marijuana isn't 'generally good' for you, it doesn't help with respiratory distress whatsoever, especially when you smoke it. Just because something is 'medicinal' doesn't mean it's nothing but beneficial to you.

Seems to work for me so far, my lungs are in immaculate shape I was told just recently before my gallbladder surgery a couple months ago. So who the hell knows.

[breadisfunny]

So much drama here. Don't worry, capitalism will deal with this problem and nobody will care or remember in 5 years. I guarantee it.

Exactly science and tech will fix this.

you really need to stop contradicting yourself.