Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Deletedaccount1]

That's nice for Asia where there is a different situation. I mean i could tell you to google context but you are just randomly saying things now.

Okay, how is it different? It is the exact same disease being spread the exact same way in a place where by all accounts it should be spreading faster because Asians are packed like sardines in cities like Taipei, Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc.

But it isn't spreading faster, it is spreading slower because these countries have cultural practices of wearing surgical masks during flu season and are actually enforcing wearing masks in public to limit how long they need to lockdown which simultaneously lowers the R0 of the virus and lessens the effect it has economically.

[PhaelixWW]

If people are asymptotically spreading the virus then a general policy of having everyone wear one would cut infection rates as is obviously happening when you look at Asian countries where people do that and take it seriously because they view from it a communal and not individual perspective.

If people were washing their hands and respecting the physical distancing, then the masks would be a complete non-issue, instead of a 99% non-issue. And anyone who is ignoring those rules wouldn't be in a rush to use masks in the first place.

Whereas those masks are essential to the health care professionals.

But again you are spreading the same myth that regular surgical masks don't lower infection rates while East Asia is making a mockery of the West with their infection rates while having less stringent lockdowns.

You presume, without fact, that civilian use of masks is what has defined those curves? Bold assumption.

Also, every single health official is saying the same thing regarding masks, and yet you believe that those are myths and that your unfounded assumption is correct, instead.

Thirdly, China didn't have stringent lockdowns? BWAHAHAHAHA!

Mask manufacturers prioritize stocking hospitals over retail stores.

Sure, completely ignore the fact that hospitals and government officials have been in contact with the retailers, not just the manufacturers, in order to get the supplies they need. And yet, millions of dumbass civilians have already scooped up the supplies that are needed by the health care professionals, also driving the cost up by an order of magnitude.

And you are dense. The CDC doesn't need to have that come out of their own budget they can make budgetary suggestions to the administration and congress to whom $1 billion is quite literally nothing as is evident by this stimulus among other things. If you ever travel to Asia you will see that China, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea have absolutely no problem with mask supplies for nearly all their citizens and those countries have a combined population that is 5 times larger than the US and is much more densely populated than nearly all of the US while still having a lower reproductive rate for the virus. But masks don't work apparently because someone in some office somewhere in the government said so.

CDC wouldn't have just needed $1 billion for masks, though. And if the CDC had gone to Congress and asked for funding to be able to fight off a national pandemic on this scale, they would have been laughed out of the building, because no politician wanted to take this threat seriously. Certainly not enough of them to get it through a budget review.

[Kiri]

Hey genius, Google "South Korea coronavirus masks" or "Taiwan coronavirus masks" and put two and two together.

Tbh, it's not the masks alone that are doing it, it's the accompanying behaviour just as well. Just putting on a mask alone isn't going to do much, especially when people do it haphazardly or re-use their masks. There are reasons as to why the WHO is wary of this.

[PhaelixWW]

Yes everything is political. This guy is an AI researcher in Silicon Valley who is also a pretentious left-wing European who is almost as insufferable as you making the exact same point that I am about masks. Maybe learn to separate the message from the messenger when the situation calls for it.

Yup, you're right. That guy made the same, stupid arguments you did. The message here is wrong.

[d00mGuArD]

That's nice for Asia where there is a different situation. I mean i could tell you to google context but you are just randomly saying things now.

The use of masks by virus carriers helps to prevent them from spreading the virus.
Since many, many, many people may have coronavirus without symptoms (asymptomatic), there may be many people that have virus but not show any signs.
Since no one can know who they are, use of masks by everyone sounds best to help prevent the spreading by those persons.

tl;dr Everyone wearing masks helps prevent the virus from getting out of the asymptomatic sick. Common sense.

[Deletedaccount1]

If people were washing their hands and respecting the physical distancing, then the masks would be a complete non-issue, instead of a 99% non-issue. And anyone who is ignoring those rules wouldn't be in a rush to use masks in the first place.

Whereas those masks are essential to the health care professionals.

I agree 100%. The problem is that people don't listen and even if they did, the effect that this has on the economy is absolutely devastating. It could be mitigated by having people wear masks in public which would allow some level of activity to continue while lowering the rate of infection.

You presume, without fact, that civilian use of masks is what has defined those curves? Bold assumption.

Also, every single health official is saying the same thing regarding masks, and yet you believe that those are myths and that your unfounded assumption is correct, instead.

Thirdly, China didn't have stringent lockdowns? BWAHAHAHAHA!

It is not the only factor, it is a contributing one. China has been easing lockdowns and they are not seeing a resurgence of the virus by doing that. As for the bolded part, read below.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/o...ace-masks.html
https://time.com/5799964/coronavirus-face-mask-asia-us/

Sure, completely ignore the fact that hospitals and government officials have been in contact with the retailers, not just the manufacturers, in order to get the supplies they need. And yet, millions of dumbass civilians have already scooped up the supplies that are needed by the health care professionals, also driving the cost up by an order of magnitude.

That is the government's fault, specifically Trump's for not utilizing the Defense Production Act to ramp up the supply of masks.

CDC wouldn't have just needed $1 billion for masks, though. And if the CDC had gone to Congress and asked for funding to be able to fight off a national pandemic on this scale, they would have been laughed out of the building, because no politician wanted to take this threat seriously. Certainly not enough of them to get it through a budget review.

That is pure conjecture. They have one job to do and they didn't even try. If they had tried they would now be going "well we warned you for years that we needed emergency supplies of masks, ventilators, IV bags, etc." but the truth is they were as caught off guard in the grand scheme of things as everyone except as a select group of shunned experts.

[Acidbaron]

Tbh, it's not the masks alone that are doing it, it's the accompanying behaviour just as well. Just putting on a mask alone isn't going to do much, especially when people do it haphazardly or re-use their masks. There are reasons as to why the WHO is wary of this.

DING.DING.DING. WE HAVE A WINNER!

The context matters, there's a shortage, there are people that are daily in contact with infected that need them and we need them to stay healthy for ours sake.
The people buying them don't use them correctly as we have to tell people to wash their hands, so basic hygiene and self protection is not something they are aware of unlike medical trained staff.

Than again being worried about face masks while the ape in the white house is completely disregarding all medical advice is an interesting way to be outraged about something.

- - - Updated - - -

That is the government's fault, specifically Dumbo's for not utilizing the Defense Production Act to ramp up the supply of masks.



That is pure conjecture. They have one job to do and they didn't even try. If they had tried they would now be going "well we warned you for years that we needed emergency supplies of masks, ventilators, IV bags, etc." but the truth is they were as caught off guard in the grand scheme of things as everyone except as a select group of shunned experts.

t
I wonder which administration reduced funding for the CDC so they couldn't prepare properly for upcoming epidemics despite being warned that the frequency of SARS infections going up.

YOU ARE CORRECT! DONNY DUMBO's ADMINISTRATION!

[Freighter]

Okay, how is it different? It is the exact same disease being spread the exact same way in a place where by all accounts it should be spreading faster because Asians are packed like sardines in cities like Taipei, Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc.

But it isn't spreading faster, it is spreading slower because these countries have cultural practices of wearing surgical masks during flu season and are actually enforcing wearing masks in public to limit how long they need to lockdown which simultaneously lowers the R0 of the virus and lessens the effect it has economically.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Deletedaccount1]

Tbh, it's not the masks alone that are doing it, it's the accompanying behaviour just as well. Just putting on a mask alone isn't going to do much, especially when people do it haphazardly or re-use their masks. There are reasons as to why the WHO is wary of this.

The argument for the near-universal use of masks in public isn't that they can be used alone to solve the crisis. They should be used to supplement hand washing and social distancing, not instead of it. You are creating a false dichotomy.

- - - Updated - - -

What the fuck are you even talking about?

I am talking about this.

[Acidbaron]

The use of masks by virus carriers helps to prevent them from spreading the virus.
Since many, many, many people may have coronavirus without symptoms (asymptomatic), there may be many people that have virus but not show any signs.
Since no one can know who they are, use of masks by everyone sounds best to help prevent the spreading by those persons.

tl;dr Everyone wearing masks helps prevent the virus from getting out of the asymptomatic sick. Common sense.

If there were masks in abundance i would follow your reasoning, sadly this not the case. When presented with that option it makes sense to recommend against hoarding and using them when you "might" be infected in addition if you already follow the other guide lines your chance of infecting another is smaller versus people in contact with patients daily and in cost need of protecting themselves.

They are not useless but how useful they are for a random person who follows the guide lines is really not all that. I believe that once the production is up there, making masks for the infected mandatory is the next step now that testing is starting to be increased in several nation, that does make sense.

[Freighter]

I am talking about this.

You were talking plural, these countries. That's China. We don't have any enforcement on wearing masks in South Korea.

[Deletedaccount1]

You were talking plural, these countries. That's China. We don't have any enforcement on wearing masks in South Korea.

I didn't mean to imply that, my mistake.

[Gaidax]

Wearing masks is mostly so you don't get others sick, good practice overall.

Whether N95 mask helps for incoming threats or not is debatable. for every research that says it does, there is a research that says it doesn't. I, personally, do use one and have a box of 12 of them in my home. They are good for 12 hours of use, after which you throw it and use another one.

I also wear latex gloves every time I'm outside for resupply, which is basically the only time I'm outside nowadays. It certainly is not up to par with full protective equipment, but it certainly is better than absolutely nothing.

[smityx]

Was it forsythia?!

(movie reference if anyone gets it, lol)

I got to invest in that.

[Deletedaccount1]

I wonder which administration reduced funding for the CDC so they couldn't prepare properly for upcoming epidemics despite being warned that the frequency of SARS infections going up.

YOU ARE CORRECT! DONNY DUMBO's ADMINISTRATION!

That didn't actually happen.

[Gaidax]

That didn't actually happen.

I honestly would be weary of getting into this nonsense shit slinging. It will evolve into another 3 pages of unnecessary political crap for nothing really.

[Keosen]

So basically in Amurika they are not even try to hide it anymore and openly speak about letting people die instead of losing millions?

[Skroe]

Must be pretty tough for you @Knadra, that your multi-year troll on the American people in the form of Donald Trump ended precipitating through his inaction, lies and stupidity the largest public health crisis in our history and likely largest economic calamity since the Great Depression.

Have you lost your job yet? Or a friend or loved one. Be patient. You or they will before long. That's on you.

When you or they lose your house, remember, you helped facilitate that.

But you really showed them SJWs. You really showed those obnoxious university professors that said stupid things. Or loud mouthed celebrities or the "mainstream media". You really, really tickled your fantasy.

I want you to look at this:


This is your judgement day, Knadra. Yes. You.

This is on you. 1000 lives and counting.

The crime that'll never be forgiven. You did that. You and the rest of Trump's cult.

Because you prioritized facile nonsense and getting a rise out of people who annoyed you over the fundamentals of a President doing his job. Like listening to US intelligence. Or having disaster preparation plans in place. Or staffing his administration with experts. Oh and we know how you loaaaaaaaaathe experts.

1000 Americans have died because you treated the Presidency like a game rather than as something serious. Thousands more will die before this is over.

Are you ready for the Death toll to exceed 9/11? That too will be on Trump, on you, and on Trump's supporters who defended a man who has no business being President and now is engineering it to make sure many Americans die so he has a chance (however slim) at re-election. That's coming

I'll just leave this for you. Iassac Asimov was talking about you.

[Acidbaron]

That didn't actually happen.

Oh yes i was wrong but that's only because......"In fact, all of Trump’s budget proposals have called for cuts to CDC funding, but Congress has intervened each time by passing spending bills with year-over-year increases for the CDC that Trump then signed into law."

Guilty by intend to do so, says enough.

[Gaidax]

So basically in Amurika they are not even try to hide it anymore and openly speak about letting people die instead of losing millions?

To be fair, it's "Amurika" and pretty much every other nation in the world. You're in a dreamland if you think healthcare is the only priority for the vast majority of democracies around the world. Almost everyone does this balancing act between lockdowns and flattening the curve and economy at the moment.