Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Acidbaron]

I really don't know what the Americans are doing.

I think Trump is betting on a fast vaccine while simultaneously trying to save the economy by pumping Fed money into it, but if he's wrong and it doesn't get contained, he is going to be the second worst leader of this crisis after Bolsonaro.

We are going to see what it looks like when a neo-liberal society starts to fall apart. Perhaps it is their post WWII moment we had when rebuilding.

[Thepersona]

I really don't know what the Americans are doing.

I think Trump is betting on a fast vaccine while simultaneously trying to save the economy by pumping Fed money into it, but if he's wrong and it doesn't get contained, he is going to be the second worst leader of this crisis after Bolsonaro.

A vaccine wont come until, at the very least, November. A treatment wont come until at the very least, May. The sorry excuse of a president that you have is going to have 10s of thousands of people killed.

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We are going to see what it looks like when a neo-liberal society starts to fall apart. Perhaps it is their post WWII moment we had when rebuilding.

I hope that this pandemic marks the end of the neoliberal order that started in the 90s. At the very least this marks the end of me and my (never started) career with my college degree (business and economics). I will study biology or chemistry when the dust settles.

[jonnysensible]

We are going to see what it looks like when a neo-liberal society starts to fall apart. Perhaps it is their post WWII moment we had when rebuilding.

surely covid has already killed neoliberalism, the last fourty years died in a few short months.

[Acidbaron]

surely covid has already killed neoliberalism, the last fourty years died in a few short months.

With the support Trumps statement and is echoed by republican supporters and politicians that it is better to die for your countries economy, it is far from death.

Unless that was meant as sarcasm?

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I hope that this pandemic marks the end of the neoliberal order that started in the 90s. At the very least this marks the end of me and my (never started) career with my college degree (business and economics). I will study biology or chemistry when the dust settles.

I would welcome more investment in people and structures around that at the expense of companies and corporations.

[Tuor]

Meanwhille, we have the perfectet time to prove, or not, that the virus is weather sensitive. It snowed today, really freaky as we almost in April
https://www.meteopt.com/forum/topico...0286/pagina-29

Suposely, we should see an increase of detected cases in the next days ... Or not, hopefully.

[Endus]

Has this been posted yet; Stockpile of US-manufactured ventilators sold overseas: report

A Pennsylvania company that received $13.8 million in tax dollars to produce cheap, portable ventilators is now selling them overseas as the U.S. scrambles to find enough of the devices to sustain hospital patients affected by the coronavirus, according to an investigation by ProPublica.

HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each. Instead, the company, which is a subsidiary of Dutch appliance and technology giant Royal Philips N.V., began selling more expensive versions of the ventilators across the world.

HHS told ProPublica that the company agreed to produce them “as soon as possible,” but a Philips spokesman said the company has no plan to even begin production anytime this year.

Instead, the company is reportedly negotiating with a White House team led by Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to build 43,000 more ventilators for Americans infected with COVID-19.

And?

It's horrible; it profiteers off the lives of at-risk Americans, yes. That's a given.

But that's the status quo. It's the basis of the entire American medical system. What, it took a pandemic for Americans to pause and say "hey, wait, maybe defining healthcare coverage on the basis of profits to medical suppliers and insurance agencies isn't actually a smart way to do things?"

This is the same problem you've always had. You're just being told to look at it from a societal point of view, rather than the individual you insist upon. Like you should every policy issue. What this is underscoring is how deeply flawed the American economic-political culture really is. Nothing more. This isn't something new. It's what Americans have always celebrated about their system.

Until they realize that holy shit, they might need it, as individuals. COVID-19 is your wake-up call as to how diseased and unethical your economic approach is.

[Forogil]

I'm with you on this.

Most everyone here seems full of doom and gloom but consulting the encyclopedia brexitia for some balance and a cheerier pov they have a useful graphic with data provided by the government Office of National Statistics for the UK. Do you have anything similar for your countries? It does beg the question what exactly is going on and provide some comfort from all the sensationalism over this quite pathetic disease...

Look at https://www.corriere.it/politica/20_...cdbe1130.shtml for parts of Italy.


This is for some regions of Italy.

Blue is average number of deaths for normal years.
Red are the number of deaths this year.
Green are official covid-19 deaths.


But at least it is going down (one possibility is simply that almost everyone got infected) and the peak wasn't much more than 16 times the normal.

[Draco-Onis]

I really don't know what the Americans are doing.

I think Trump is betting on a fast vaccine while simultaneously trying to save the economy by pumping Fed money into it, but if he's wrong and it doesn't get contained, he is going to be the second worst leader of this crisis after Bolsonaro.

Trump wants to win election in 2020 he wants to put all the blame on governors and say he had nothing to do with it if shit hits the fan. You also see red states that flatter him get supplies and help much faster, it's a complete shit show and about half the country is listening to right wing crazies selling silver cures. America has done what no one in the world has as far as I know make a pandemic a left or right issue. If you live in blue states everything is being done red states are slow walking it.

The pandemic is going to last a very long time in the US, I see a situation where it has passed in blue states and red states just start feeling it.

[Arrashi]

Well you guys can say what you want about your governments, but at least unlike what we have now in Poland they aren't occupied with overthrowing democracy rather than fighting virus. They silence doctors who talk about how bad the situation are, ignore horribly understaffed and under equipped hospitals and only thing they care is to change voting system so they can cheat next election.

[Puupi]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...aCTHVaQgaslWss

This is a worrying story from the US.

60 choir members were in a rehearsal, all asymptomatic, 45 are now positive and 2 dead. They sanitized their hands, didn't hug or shake hands. Just sang in the same room for a couple of hours....

And it wasn't some small room, it was a church.

[Katchii]

Right wing media painted the virus as a hoax for months about 13% of the country according to poling think the entire thing is fake news.

Ah that...I had completely written it off and forgotten that was even a thing because of how absolutely fucking ridiculous it was.

[PhaelixWW]

I'm with you on this.

Most everyone here seems full of doom and gloom but consulting the encyclopedia brexitia for some balance and a cheerier pov they have a useful graphic with data provided by the government Office of National Statistics for the UK. Do you have anything similar for your countries? It does beg the question what exactly is going on and provide some comfort from all the sensationalism over this quite pathetic disease...

You know what's the problem with bullshit arguments? It's that they're bullshit arguments.

See, it's a bit odd that your graphic starts all the way back on 1/3 when the first UK death wasn't until 3/5.

Red flag #1.

Then we note that the data seems to stop on 3/20, which is odd, because that's hardly current. For comparison, look at this chart of daily totals for the UK:



For absolute transparency and precision, I've added in the daily total (+381, so far) for today. Notice how the data on your chart stops right before things start to noticeably escalate? (They tend to do this when dealing with exponential curves, ya know.)

Red flag #2.

But maybe that was just because the graphic was made back on the... no, wait, your graphic even states that its data was pulled today, 3/31.

Red flag #3.

So, yup. That graphic, and your argument, are complete, disingenuous, bullshit.

[Cynep]

Donetsk got our first confirmed case today... blockade didn't help after all, damn tourists

So, judging by responses to my last post, it is possible that USA will get increased death rate due to absence of universal healthcare, people without "coverage" won't get treated? I mean, Germany is doing miracles so far, I thought USA may or may not join the club of countries with low deaths?

[dribbles]

You do understand that graph can be read as "Social distancing has negative effect on deaths regardless of the source"?
Ie: Less cars in traffic = Less traffic deaths
Ie: People socially distance them selves = Less deaths to influeanza
etc etc

But it isn't a little suprising that something supposedly so deadly pretty much every country of the world has shutdown and yet there is not even a little blip in the normal death rate? I'd say that an economic catastrophe will be far more deadly long term than corona will ever be. Suicides, depression, domestic abuse, mental health, no one knows the true costs of that.

Look at https://www.corriere.it/politica/20_...cdbe1130.shtml for parts of Italy.


This is for some regions of Italy.

Blue is average number of deaths for normal years.
Red are the number of deaths this year.
Green are official covid-19 deaths.


But at least it is going down (one possibility is simply that almost everyone got infected) and the peak wasn't much more than 16 times the normal.

That has focused on a tiny area of Italy though, what about nationwide how would that graph look? Going to the extreme you could look at one household of 4 over a period of time and if just 1 person in that house dies imagine the spike on a graph representing that event. Or a village devastated by earthquake. You can't select pin prick targets like that and then claim against a national death rate.

In the UK the national background normal death rate is unchanged by Coronavirus, and yet the economy is being destroyed for generations to come.

No one is clarifying the difference if people have died with Coronavirus or from it. Why?

[hellhamster]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...aCTHVaQgaslWss

This is a worrying story from the US.

60 choir members were in a rehearsal, all asymptomatic, 45 are now positive and 2 dead. They sanitized their hands, didn't hug or shake hands. Just sang in the same room for a couple of hours....

And it wasn't some small room, it was a church.

Corona is proven to be airborne with a floating range of up to almost 9 meters. Having 4 times stronger glycoproteins that enable their attachment to their host cell apparently wasn't enough, the only thing worse right now is maybe becoming resistant to the sun's UV light. Or achieving antibody-dependent enhancement through mutation, then we'd all be mega fucked. That is essentially stuff of nightmares tier.

[PhaelixWW]

I really don't know what the Americans are doing.

We have an anti-vaxxer in charge of the country during a viral pandemic. What else needs to be said, really.

[Cynep]

See, it's a bit odd that your graphic starts all the way back on 1/3 when the first UK death wasn't until 3/5.

Red flag #1.

Not to argue against you, his graph simply starts with week #1 of the year.

[dribbles]

You know what's the problem with bullshit arguments? It's that they're bullshit arguments.

See, it's a bit odd that your graphic starts all the way back on 1/3 when the first UK death wasn't until 3/5.

Red flag #1.

Then we note that the data seems to stop on 3/20, which is odd, because that's hardly current. For comparison, look at this chart of daily totals for the UK:



For absolute transparency and precision, I've added in the daily total (+381, so far) for today. Notice how the data on your chart stops right before things start to noticeably escalate? (They tend to do this when dealing with exponential curves, ya know.)

Red flag #2.

But maybe that was just because the graphic was made back on the... no, wait, your graphic even states that its data was pulled today, 3/31.

Red flag #3.

So, yup. That graphic, and your argument, are complete, disingenuous, bullshit.

All very well you adding in supposed Coronavirus deaths after March 20th, was that deaths with or from Corona?, however even at the peak in your yellow area of one day at 250ish deaths the normal background death rate in an average year every day in the UK is about 1600. Shame you didn't add that in for some balance.

[Acidbaron]

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation...aCTHVaQgaslWss

This is a worrying story from the US.

60 choir members were in a rehearsal, all asymptomatic, 45 are now positive and 2 dead. They sanitized their hands, didn't hug or shake hands. Just sang in the same room for a couple of hours....

And it wasn't some small room, it was a church.

There is still a chance of aerosol transmission hence the 1,5 meter distance. Also there a good video on how easy it is to get infected by others even when not touching. Can't seem to find it but they put powder on people's hand and just let them be and it showed how often you touch surfaces and your face. I mean all they really had to do was hand out the songbooks to each other and that would have been enough.

Meanwhile in the Netherlands it is also getting worse so their internal affairs minister speech last week here from everything is going to be under control rings no longer true. But believe it or not, apparently they are still going to host markets for produce and other products. I really doubt i am going to start working again by the end of next month..

[Cynep]

All very well you adding in supposed Coronavirus deaths after March 20th, was that deaths with or from Corona?, however even at the peak in your yellow area of one day at 250ish deaths the normal background death rate in an average year every day in the UK is about 1600. Shame you didn't add that in for some balance.

To be fair, your graph is not updated for March 27, and it should have a 10% bump that week. And another one for the current week too.