1. #9041
    The Lightbringer PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    And correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt re-infection a exceedengly rare occurrence, if it really happens?
    Sure. That's a general truth for all viruses. There was some worry at the beginning of this whole thing, as there were reports of multiple extant strains, but scientists clarified that they were more correctly different variants, not strains. I think every scientist talking on the subject has stressed that there's no specific evidence of the possibility of reinfection, nor is it something that's terribly likely in the near future.

    That being said, there are always rare occasions where it happens, but that's more due to the patient's severely compromised immune system, rather than any strength of the virus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Because i've read that the cases of people who tested negative but then tested positive were
    A) People who didnt truly recover
    B) people who still had viral dna, but not active particles
    C) People who had the antibodies but no virus.

    If i'm correct, the evidence is pointing to "you get infected once, you survive, you dont get infected again for this strain"
    Sure. There's always the possibility, (and honestly, the likelihood) that given enough time, some mutations will vary enough to allow a person to be reinfected, but it won't have the same virility as the very first time, nor will it spread as easily.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    And also, SARS doesnt mutate that fast, does it?
    SARS is effectively dead. It was contained enough to burn out before it spread to the mass population. But coronaviruses (of which both COVID-19 and SARS are) are single-strand RNA (ssRNA) viruses. ssRNAs are inherently prone to high mutation rates, although that does not always benefit the virus.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  2. #9042
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    In reality they did not want people hoarding masks because there's not enough. Someone would have boxes of masks in their garage right now. Also most people really don't know how to use one they constantly touch the protective part, making the mask useless.

    The CDC went about it all the wrong way though because they straight up told people they don't need mask, even alluding that masks were useless. A mask is not a end all solution but it's better than nothing and can mitigate spread. They should have at least encouraged mask for people on airplanes/public transportation - New York might have faired better.

    All mask need to be redirected to health professionals first, people facing grocery/delivery workers second. Everyone needs to stay home except to get food if needed.
    I'd think they should focus on reusable masks for individuals, rather than the disposable masks that would be used for medical professionals. Since it's useful for preventing expelling germs, it'd be helpful without having to deplete supplies.

    Same with gloves really, quite useful, if folks had a clue how to use them...
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  3. #9043
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    And if there were an unlimited supply of masks...that would absolutely be the thing to do...but there isn't an unlimited supply.

    Medical care professionals have a far greater need for them than you because their risk of exposure is far greater than yours
    Here's the thing.

    If these recommendations are officially released to the nation, they made their calculations already.

    In case of Israel - PM has straight out said to the nation today that everyone must use masks when going outside. Not "recommended" or "good practice" - must.

    Followup was by Ministry of Health statement that it's ok to improvise a mask if need be and not to rush buy masks by truckloads. But the direction still stands.


    Knowing Bibi's "must" when it comes to Coronavirus - this means he will give it half a week or so to see if people give a damn and then start actually enforcing it.

    Quite frankly, I'm pleased with his performance when it comes to how it's handled here. He really did a decent job with this here, despite the fact that we had years of Health Ministry mismanagement under his leadeship and that incompetent as fuck Minister of Health.

    Speaking of which, said Minister of Health returned positive today, so hopefully he won't be ruining too much of the decent efforts next 2 weeks or so.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-04-01 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #9044
    The Lightbringer PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    One does not prevent another. You absolutely can do social distancing AND wear the mask.
    Human nature occasionally interferes with "can" and results in "does the opposite anyway".


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The thing is, however, that sometimes unfortunately you can't keep the recommended distance simply because you enter a local convenience store or even use public transport, where it's often outright impossible really.
    And even 1 person in 20 not following a mask policy can potentially undo the effect of the other 19.

    Like I said, it's hardly worthless, but it's not as worthwhile as some people might think. But as long as medical professionals have enough, I don't have a big problem with it.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #9045
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And even 1 person in 20 not following a mask policy can potentially undo the effect of the other 19.
    You will never have 100%, but it's better to have 95% then instead of 0%.

    Other than that - masks are easier to enforce, as opposed to social distancing. I really hope we will actually be enforcing this in a week, once people get their time to prepare.

    Nothing fixes irresponsible behaviors better than a good fine.

  6. #9046
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Here's the thing.

    If these recommendations are officially released to the nation, they made their calculations already.

    In case of Israel - PM has straight out said to the nation today that everyone must use masks when going outside. Not "recommended" or "good practice" - must.

    Followup was by Ministry of Health statement that it's ok to improvise a mask if need be and not to rush buy masks by truckloads. But the direction still stands.


    Knowing Bibi's "must" when it comes to Coronavirus - this means he will give it half a week or so to see if people give a damn and then start actually enforcing it.

    Quite frankly, I'm pleased with his performance when it comes to how it's handled here. He really did a decent job with this here, despite the fact that we had years of Health Ministry mismanagement under his leadeship and that incompetent as fuck Minister of Health.

    Speaking of which, said Minister of Health returned positive today, so hopefully he won't be ruining too much of the decent efforts next 2 weeks or so.
    Sounds like he tried the same thing that failed for everybody else and then tries more things that failed for everybody else until you go on full strict lockdown
    Can't blame Bibi but it's not something to be particularly proud of.edit: that being said if Israel has way too many masks, sure why not. But then wear gloves too if you go out. And change them regularly.
    Last edited by Demolitia; 2020-04-01 at 11:46 PM.

  7. #9047
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    The mask doesn't help the person who is uninfected, it helps the person who is infected from not infecting others. And those people can also choose to cough or sneeze into their elbow instead of the open or even their hand, per guidelines.
    The mask can block large droplets carrying the virus itself. So disposing of it immediately after coming into contact and washing your hands will protect you.

    Going into your elbow is slightly better than a mask so, just combine the two... or even use your hands and then wash them or use sanitizing right after with the mask.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3846148/

    Another important thing to note is that.

    Sleeve coughing produced more droplets 1 micron or under, compared to just a mask.

    Now the table on that shows sleeves are better if you're looking between 0.5 or less up to 1, but once you start including larger droplets... masks are better.

    Also something else A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOW NO SYMPTOMS and just their normal talking can infect people. A mask again... may be able to protect from that.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843952/

    You'll see most droplets from talking are larger than 5 microns WHICH MEANS A MASK WOULD protect you from asymptomatic people, and also help stop the spread.

  8. #9048
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Sounds like he tried the same thing that failed for everybody else and then tries more things that failed for everybody else until you go on full strict lockdown
    Can't blame Bibi but it's not something to be particularly proud of.
    Well I mean - people are people.

    I'm just glad we have 26 dead total for 9 million of population, which is nothing short of amazing really. To his credit - he tried the same things everyone else tried, but good 1-2 weeks earlier and it gave decent results.

    So yeah, he definitely earned some kudos there.

  9. #9049
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well I mean - people are people.

    I'm just glad we have 26 dead total for 9 million of population, which is nothing short of amazing really. To his credit - he tried the same things everyone else tried, but good 1-2 weeks earlier and it gave decent results.

    So yeah, he definitely earned some kudos there.
    Nice. Really nice. How many infected and in ICU you have? We have 3k infected, 100+ in ICU and 16 dead unfortunately
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  10. #9050
    Iran is turning into a real shit show. People dying to bootleg liquor thinking it cures it because they have no trust in thier government and alcohol is banned so they have to go to dodgy sources even if it did help which it doesn't unless you're using the alcohol to clean. This whole situation really highlights how important having trust in your government is as people do crazy things in fear and misinformation
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  11. #9051
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well I mean - people are people.

    I'm just glad we have 26 dead total for 9 million of population, which is nothing short of amazing really. To his credit - he tried the same things everyone else tried, but good 1-2 weeks earlier and it gave decent results.

    So yeah, he definitely earned some kudos there.
    You have what? 6000 cases in a month? It shows that your health are system can cope so far , not that preventive measures are working.

  12. #9052
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Nice. Really nice. How many infected and in ICU you have? We have 3k infected, 100+ in ICU and 16 dead unfortunately
    Infected total is 6092, Ventilated - 81. Total capacity for ventilation is ~2800.

    Charts are here for example: https://corona.mako.co.il/

    You can use Google Translate and overall it does the job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    You have what? 6000 cases in a month? It shows that your health are system can cope so far , not that preventive measures are working.
    We are a pretty small country, 6000 cases is a lot. When it comes to normalized cases (cases per 1m people) - we have more cases than US.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Our healthcare system does seem to cope well and we were lucky to have a shitton of ventilation machines ready (we seemed to have a stock for potential chemical/biological attack). At the very least, so far, people seem to be getting all the care they can give, given there is no cure or medicine yet.

    Still there is a rush to bring more, our alarmist PM is consistently paining grim pictures to try and make people behave.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-04-01 at 11:59 PM.

  13. #9053
    Merely a Setback CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Iran is turning into a real shit show. People dying to bootleg liquor thinking it cures it because they have no trust in thier government and alcohol is banned so they have to go to dodgy sources even if it did help which it doesn't unless you're using the alcohol to clean. This whole situation really highlights how important having trust in your government is as people do crazy things in fear and misinformation
    Would be nice if the US got rid of the sanctions so that Iran could get better medical supplies.
    Joe Biden is a rapist and his supporters are rape apologists

  14. #9054
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Infected total is 6092, Ventilated - 81. Total capacity for ventilation is ~2800.

    Charts are here for example: https://corona.mako.co.il/

    You can use Google Translate and overall it does the job.

    - - - Updated - - -



    We are a pretty small country, 6000 cases is a lot. When it comes to normalized cases (cases per 1m people) - we have more cases than US.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Our healthcare system does seem to cope well and we were lucky to have a shitton of ventilation machines ready (we seemed to have a stock for potential chemical/biological attack). At the very least, so far, people seem to be getting all the care they can give, given there is no cure or medicine yet.

    Still there is a rush to bring more, our alarmist PM is consistently paining grim pictures to try and make people behave.
    Ok so you infection level is about the same as everybody else. No kudos there. Your saving grace is having overkill hospitals. Good for you but I don't think Bibi gets to be praised for that.

  15. #9055
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    This whole situation really highlights how important having trust in your government is as people do crazy things in fear and misinformation
    very true. here in UK the majority are obeying lockdown orders but there's a large number of people who simply don't believe it's necessary and that the government is seriously exaggerating things or just plain lying. it's sad, but hardly surprising after all the misinformation that was spread over brexit with all the parties just throwing out blatant lies to push their respective agendas

    so now we have a crisis and people don't trust the people who are in charge of fixing it. the one time they're actually trying to do at least something right and people make it harder, not just because they're panicking or selfish but also because the boy's cried wolf too many times

  16. #9056
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    Ok so you infection level is about the same as everybody else. No kudos there. Your saving grace is having overkill hospitals. Good for you but I don't think Bibi gets to be praised for that.
    Given he's at helm for a good decade now, I'd say overkill hospitals, healthcare and stockpile of ventilators are also not something that came just by the chance there.

    Overall, we seemed to have been prepared better than many, so yeah, maybe it's his credit too in some. Other than that - it's sure nice we locked down shit earlier than most.

    Our only real Achilles' heel is this idiotic clown town of religious nuts that's responsible for 15% of the cases for 2% of the population.

  17. #9057
    Legendary! Thepersona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Given he's at helm for a good decade now, I'd say overkill hospitals, healthcare and stockpile of ventilators are also not something that came just by the chance there.

    Overall, we seemed to have been prepared better than many, so yeah, maybe it's his credit too in some. Other than that - it's sure nice we locked down shit earlier than most.

    Our only real Achilles' heel is this idiotic clown town of religious nuts that's responsible for 15% of the cases for 2% of the population.
    Religious nuts being responsible for a fuckton of outbreaks? color me shocked!
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  18. #9058
    Quote Originally Posted by Thepersona View Post
    Religious nuts being responsible for a fuckton of outbreaks? color me shocked!
    Some of them are literally living in a country inside a country. It's basically like our own version of Amish, only more toxic and located more closely to the sane people. Like there are many religious people who are either ok really or at least try to not get in the way, but you have this 5-10% who are totally bonkers extremist who do not recognize laws aside from edicts of their community leaders and "teh book".

    Problem with Coronavirus is that these 5-10% are enough to spread the virus like a wildfire, which is precisely what has happened there. Why it's our own tiny Italy there now.

  19. #9059
    Quote Originally Posted by Not A Cat View Post
    Anyone here have their classes moved online?

    If so how is it going? It's a disorganized mess with all of my classes and it's driving me insane. I already hated online classes and now I'm dealing with professors that also hate online classes.

    Now it's just starting to feel like a huge waste of money.
    My wife had her university classes moved online. She just had one this past week (we had to buy her a microphone to use since we don't have webcams or anything) and loved it. The teacher made sure everyone had their mic muted, questions were queued via chat and people were allowed to elaborate on their questions via mic when called upon. She said the class was much easier to follow without a cacophony of people all trying to talk at once (something I've noticed happens in this country more often than I'm used to) and she didn't have to waste two hours of her day putting on makeup/dressing up and using public transport.

  20. #9060
    The Lightbringer PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The mask can block large droplets carrying the virus itself. So disposing of it immediately after coming into contact and washing your hands will protect you.
    No, it won't. Large droplets are not routinely going into your mouth or nose directly from a coughing or talking infected person. Even if they were, unless you're wearing a face shield, your tear ducts are wide open to infection. And a surgical mask is not fitted to your face, so it has large gaps, regardless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Going into your elbow is slightly better than a mask so, just combine the two... or even use your hands and then wash them or use sanitizing right after with the mask.

    Sleeve coughing produced more droplets 1 micron or under, compared to just a mask.

    Now the table on that shows sleeves are better if you're looking between 0.5 or less up to 1, but once you start including larger droplets... masks are better.
    And, according to that study, the control group of unblocked coughs produced fewer droplets by far than any attempt to block the cough. I'm not sure what kind of conclusions you want to be drawing from that data.


    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Also something else A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOW NO SYMPTOMS and just their normal talking can infect people. A mask again... may be able to protect from that.
    Again, that's assuming your not following the physical distancing recommendations, and also that the person wearing the mask is the person who is infected, and also that there aren't other non-mask-wearing infected people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You'll see most droplets from talking are larger than 5 microns WHICH MEANS A MASK WOULD protect you from asymptomatic people, and also help stop the spread.
    See the above rebuttals.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

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