1. #14381
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    Sorry, I will not be taking the coronavirus vaccine.
    They want to inject you with 5G.

  2. #14382
    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    A recent Stanford University antibody study found https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...463v1.full.pdf here estimated the fatality rate from the virus is likely 0.1% to 0.2%.

    In New York City, the U.S. epicenter of the pandemic, the death rate for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01%, or 10 per 100,000 in the population. People aged 75 and older, though, have a death rate 80 times that. For children under 18, the rate of death is zero per 100,000.
    0.1% to 0.2% is like flu, that's probably a little optimistic. By now it is clear that most of the world severely overreacted though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    What's going on in Sweden, in video format:

    Wow, the alt-right balkan Swede showed up
    I remember this guy being linked years ago during the migrant crisis where he made videos about how Swedes are soy and let migrants rape Swedish women and take over the country.

    I'm gonna check his take on the virus now, should be interesting.

  3. #14383
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    Wow, the alt-right balkan Swede showed up
    I remember this guy being linked years ago during the migrant crisis where he made videos about how Swedes are soy and let migrants rape Swedish women and take over the country.

    I'm gonna check his take on the virus now, should be interesting.
    I know who he is, doesn't change the situation over there though.

  4. #14384

  5. #14385
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    You are correct, I'm not from the US.

    Doesn't change that if you enter government building masked, openly carrying a rifle and not clearly displaying a badge identifying you as a law enforcement official, you should be rightly shot dead on the spot. And if not shot dead right then and there, charged with attempted terrorist attack, and forever lose your ability to purchase and possess any kind of firearm.
    No.
    This is why I never accept arguments from those that don't live here regarding American society. Because you just don't understand and you never will.
    First and foremost...de-escalation. You have an armed population, some of which are likely in favor of the protesters, and that includes the very police that you fantasize will blindly follow orders. Think again. If I recall there are whole regions where law enforcement has refused to enforce lockdowns. And I'm certain this has in part played into decisions to reopen parts of many states. (And I'm looking at PA as another fine example) Politicians need to encourage the thought that everything is going accordingly...and it's all under control.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    it's called martial law.
    And it won't ever happen.
    So get that out of your head.

  6. #14386
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    0.1% to 0.2% is like flu, that's probably a little optimistic. By now it is clear that most of the world severely overreacted though.
    The study (or studies, really) that he's talking about is not a good study. There are better studies being done, and because they're not awful, we won't have results from those until later in the year.

    But that study, and another like it headed by the same author, has been criticized by most folks in the field for how poorly it was designed. Namely, it claims to be looking at a random sampling of data, but instead it tested people who already had reason to believe they had coronavirus, by virtue of advertising their study as a means to get tested in a test-starved area. So it's not giving us an idea of how many people have the virus; it's giving us an idea of how many people think they have the virus and are correct, which is a completely different statistic, and using those numbers to make assumptions about the larger population. Then, after making that simple mistake in sample selection, they rely wholly on antibody testing - but antibody testing is not reliable for this virus yet. It was only in the first week of April that we developed antibody tests that we think are reliable, and these samples were taken long before that. It's just bad science.

    Of course, bad science is the favorite science of science deniers.

  7. #14387
    You literally quoted me saying their numbers are optimistic.

  8. #14388
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Opening schools is the worst thing any country can do until a vaccine or treatment is available any parent will tell you they are like cruise ships on steroids once you open them cases will explode.
    Perhaps parents will tell you that, but people who study epidemics think that school closures are both ineffective (updated data from Imperial College is that they perhaps decrease R by 0.05 - less than most other measures) - and problematic.

  9. #14389
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Opening schools is the worst thing any country can do until a vaccine or treatment is available any parent will tell you they are like cruise ships on steroids once you open them cases will explode.
    The thing is, you can't keep them closed for months and years to come.

    I mean, what do you propose? Let's say vaccine will be ready and available early next year, what then? Whole year without school? Where will kids be while parents are working?

    We will have to take these risks, slowly and surely things will open up, because this situation is untenable. It's good we did lockdowns and restriction and I bet we will have varying degrees of these restrictions for a whole year, but at some point you just can't keep this up like that. You can't have schools closed for a year.

    I mean, this all depends on the situation, but really now - we're a country of 9 million and so far we had 227 dead total for 16k identified cases and we're nowhere near collapsing here or what not. At this point yes, it's time for some cruel math - how many will potentially die if X reopens. Can't keep everything under lock and key if stakes are not high enough yet.

    Nobody's gonna go full Sweden here, but this can't continue like this either.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-05-02 at 04:53 PM.

  10. #14390
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Perhaps parents will tell you that, but people who study epidemics think that school closures are both ineffective (updated data from Imperial College is that they perhaps decrease R by 0.05 - less than most other measures) - and problematic.
    Unless i am mistake unlike the flu what was used initially as an example to form policies and measures around is that corona virus is not really as easily carried by younger kids to the point experts are saying it might be okay to let small kids back with their grand parents as they are not the carriers they expected them to be.

    A large problem with schools being closed though is lack of daycare for working parents, the added stress parents get from trying to juggle their daily tasks and help them with their school work, as here despite schools being closed they still get assignments online.

    The biggest issue is probably no final exams considering the school year is almost at its end and how that is going to be tackled. Can't let everyone just pass that year or flunk them.

  11. #14391
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No.
    This is why I never accept arguments from those that don't live here regarding American society. Because you just don't understand and you never will.
    First and foremost...de-escalation. You have an armed population, some of which are likely in favor of the protesters, and that includes the very police that you fantasize will blindly follow orders. Think again. If I recall there are whole regions where law enforcement has refused to enforce lockdowns. And I'm certain this has in part played into decisions to reopen parts of many states. (And I'm looking at PA as another fine example) Politicians need to encourage the thought that everything is going accordingly...and it's all under control.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And it won't ever happen.
    So get that out of your head.
    keep telling yourself that. if the government deems it necessary nothing you can do will stop it. the military is trained to follow orders from their commanders. the police generally aren't. they are given a set of laws to enforce and do so.
    Last edited by breadisfunny; 2020-05-02 at 05:08 PM.
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    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  12. #14392
    Pandaren Monk Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    Shit, i can't believe this mess, my country is over-reporting cases. They corrected the numbers today, and the result is less 200 cases then yeastherday. So, we won't know how many new cases we had today, because the official report doesn't despict that information .

    EDIT:
    Computer bug, lol, my bad .
    Data already corrected at worldometers, this was what happened

    https://sicnoticias.pt/especiais/cor...pos-duplicacao
    Google translated
    761/5000
    Another 16 deaths from Covid-19 in Portugal. Total infected infected after duplication

    The Directorate-General for Health (DGS) announced this Saturday the existence of 1,023 deaths and 25,190 cases of Covid-19 in Portugal.

    The total number of infected people was corrected after 422 cases recorded in the North since 25 April have been doubled, explained the Minister of Health.

    The number of deaths rose, from yesterday to today, from 1,007 to 1,023, plus 16 - an increase of 1.5%.

    The number of infected is 25,190. In Friday's bulletin 25,351 cases were confirmed, an information now corrected.

    The number of recovered cases rose from 1,647 to 1,671, 24 more than yesterday.

    There are 855 inpatients, 150 are in Intensive Care Units.
    Bonus News
    Today the state of emergency ends in Portugal

    After 45 days, the country moves from a state of emergency - which ends this Saturday - to a state of calamity. The Government has insisted that the measures of confinement and social distance should continue so that the evolution of the outbreak of the new coronavirus in Portugal is as favorable as possible.

  13. #14393
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Unless i am mistake unlike the flu what was used initially as an example to form policies and measures around is that corona virus is not really as easily carried by younger kids to the point experts are saying it might be okay to let small kids back with their grand parents as they are not the carriers they expected them to be.
    I have also seen that idea - but I think the jury is still out on that.
    And even for flu-like diseases there are many that consider school closures fairly ineffective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    A large problem with schools being closed though is lack of daycare for working parents, the added stress parents get from trying to juggle their daily tasks and help them with their school work, as here despite schools being closed they still get assignments online.
    True, this is especially a problem for health care workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    The biggest issue is probably no final exams considering the school year is almost at its end and how that is going to be tackled. Can't let everyone just pass that year or flunk them.
    I expect that there will be a lot of cheating in many cases due to new procedures.

  14. #14394
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    I wonder if that is why we gave unemployment to those that lost jobs due to covid-19. NAh..... That can't be the reason......
    Because unemployment is magic money right. Are you all serious here? You're not asking where the money is coming from and when you'll have to pay for it?

  15. #14395
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    You are correct, I'm not from the US.

    Doesn't change that if you enter government building masked, openly carrying a rifle and not clearly displaying a badge identifying you as a law enforcement official, you should be rightly shot dead on the spot. And if not shot dead right then and there, charged with attempted terrorist attack, and forever lose your ability to purchase and possess any kind of firearm.
    gun nuts, if you really want to know all about them go read the gun control thread in this forum.
    that will explain why they do the things they do.

    Nothing like Armed Intimidation to try and force your beliefs on others. Used to get you arrested in this country.

    Guess next time you have a court case against someone you can just sit outside their house and "protest" with a big honking weapon and 11 of your armed friends.


    it was a great move by the governor.
    Basically she just ignored them which always pisses kids off and made their testicles just that much smaller. However they should have been arrested but whom can trust these unstable nuts to not start popping off trying to stop the "tyranny" of the governor under their rights of the 2A!!!
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
    You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic,” - Sen (r) Graham 1999

  16. #14396
    The Lightbringer PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    Source for that?
    Source? Anders Tegnell himself.

    Sweden's Coronavirus Death Rate Nearly Twice That of U.S. as Trump Says Country 'Paying Heavily' For Not Having Lockdown
    "At least 50 percent of our death toll is within elderly homes and we have a hard time understanding how a lockdown would stop the introduction of disease," Anders Tegnell, the chief state epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, told the BBC's Radio Four's Today program last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    A few weeks later my first "highly doubtful" idea is now supported by nextstrain; painting a branch red for the US where it previously was seen as being in France.
    Fair enough. I never really doubted that the virus could have traveled back and forth a few times. I mainly disagreed with the idea that it didn't come through Belgium and France originally, which I thought at the time was the point you were trying to make. Normally, that kind of back and forth movement would be hard to believe, but I guess with air travel what it is, it's not actually all that unfeasible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    My point is, it is not the worse this country has faced in terms of a pandemic and there is no reason why some parts of the country can start to reopen.
    No, this pandemic is worse than anything the US has faced since the H1N1 flu pandemic of 1918. You're equating the deathtoll now, when it's just starting, with the final multiple-year total of other flu pandemics in which lockdowns didn't occur. Had we followed the same non-lockdown policies of the '57 and '68 flu pandemics, then COVID-19 would have killed far, far more than either one of those pandemics already. And, again, it's just starting.

    Realistically, COVID-19 will probably end up killing far more people than the Spanish Flu over the next couple years.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    And yes, this flu will not be the last one to hit us and we have learned some important things about how to combat the next wave.
    It should be repeated as many times as it takes: This is not a flu.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  17. #14397
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryDD View Post
    Because unemployment is magic money right. Are you all serious here? You're not asking where the money is coming from and when you'll have to pay for it?
    It is only magic money if you don't understand how governments make money and why governments can function with debt. In short if the interest rate is lower than the actual growth of a nation as the money owed by the nation does not matter as the economy of said nation continues to grow, so it actually an investment. It is why in the EU nations can loan for the corona crisis at a very low rate if they would need to.

    In nations like the US not giving out unemployment checks is bad for their economy, as people who don't have money can't spend money, no money being spend, no products or services being consumed, both of those dropping means the economy starts plummeting and it's a vicious cycle where less goods and services are needed less work will be available and there for less jobs.

    Obviously it is all a tad more complicated than that but those are the big lines, in short if you want a depression instead of a recession you want to stop sending unemployment checks and aid companies in this crisis.

  18. #14398
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The thing is, you can't keep them closed for months and years to come.

    I mean, what do you propose? Let's say vaccine will be ready and available early next year, what then? Whole year without school? Where will kids be while parents are working?

    We will have to take these risks, slowly and surely things will open up, because this situation is untenable. It's good we did lockdowns and restriction and I bet we will have varying degrees of these restrictions for a whole year, but at some point you just can't keep this up like that. You can't have schools closed for a year.

    I mean, this all depends on the situation, but really now - we're a country of 9 million and so far we had 227 dead total for 16k identified cases and we're nowhere near collapsing here or what not. At this point yes, it's time for some cruel math - how many will potentially die if X reopens. Can't keep everything under lock and key if stakes are not high enough yet.

    Nobody's gonna go full Sweden here, but this can't continue like this either.
    I think it's all in the testing and watching the data no one wants to be Sweden or the US at this point. If the data says it's safe then probably is as long as the government in on top of things it should be all right.

  19. #14399
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I have also seen that idea - but I think the jury is still out on that.
    And even for flu-like diseases there are many that consider school closures fairly ineffective.


    True, this is especially a problem for health care workers.


    I expect that there will be a lot of cheating in many cases due to new procedures.
    Epidemiologists seem fairly convinced that they aren't that great of a risk as a carrier to the point they don't believe that they form that much of a risk to older school staff members. Got no study by hand to back that claim up however.

    I think it is a problem for a lot of families, originally daycare here was asked to prioritize for healthcare workers though.

    I always feel kinda sorry for those that cheat as not understanding what you learned can always come back and bite you in the ass. Not sure how much things are changing, Germany just held their exams and applied physical distancing rules.

  20. #14400
    Pandaren Monk Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    It is only magic money if you don't understand how governments make money and why governments can function with debt. In short if the interest rate is lower than the actual growth of a nation as the money owed by the nation does not matter as the economy of said nation continues to grow, so it actually an investment. It is why in the EU nations can loan for the corona crisis at a very low rate if they would need to.

    In nations like the US not giving out unemployment checks is bad for their economy, as people who don't have money can't spend money, no money being spend, no products or services being consumed, both of those dropping means the economy starts plummeting and it's a vicious cycle where less goods and services are needed less work will be available and there for less jobs.

    Obviously it is all a tad more complicated than that but those are the big lines, in short if you want a depression instead of a recession you want to stop sending unemployment checks and aid companies in this crisis.
    The problem here is that if the US are going down, it doesn't matter how the EU will deal with, because we will be next, just a number, 1929.

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