Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[breadisfunny]

Keep following the guidelines and use masks.

Our unwashed masses here got released into the wild, with bars, restaurants and everything unlocked and we are already going back to the shitshow we had mid-March.

PM is still tiptoeing around being nice guy, but he told us just now during livestream that if whatever is going on now will continue then within 10 days we will reach the same number of cases per day as we had at the pinnacle and things will start closing back.

The virus does not give rat's ass about summer or heat or what not, it's still spreading here, so in case some count on that one - can scratch it off right now. We're constant 30c during the day full sun, no cloud in the sky and this shit is spreading just fine.

and here i thought it was just the u.s. where people were mindlessly packing bars.

[Zan15]

The people predicting a "second wave" are the same people who claimed that all hospitals would be overrun. Look at how that turned out

is this missing the sarcastic tag?

[Gaidax]

Oh, you are right Israel: seems clearly to be heading for a second peak/wave at the moment.

Yup, we were liek super chill for 2-3 weeks almost no new cases and no deaths, so people got all complacent and on top of opening shit up people started to skirt the rules and enforcement of masks and social distancing got super lax.

This is the result.

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and here i thought it was just the u.s. where people were mindlessly packing bars.

People be people, no matter the country.

[Deadite]

That's correct, because protesting is a Constitutionally protected right.

Opening a hair salon, isn't.

All the Karens were protesting that the hair salons were closed. It may be a outrageously frivolous thing to protest over but it seems to be a Constitutionally protected right.

[Edge-]

All the Karens were protesting that the hair salons were closed. It may be a outrageously frivolous thing to protest over but it seems to be a Constitutionally protected right.

And their protests were allowed to happen. Because it's the protests that are protected, not re-opening a hair salon.

[PACOX]

It's been too long thread!

Last time I was hear everything about to open. Lo and behold, COVID19 cases have gone up since then. Who would have thought?

I liked when people attempted to blame the protests for a day or two except protesters generally wear mask and opening up before the protests even began.

I saw a local place open its dining room one weekend and immediately close it the next (smart of them).

Good news, WHO said asymptomatic don't spread the virus!
Wait no, those people weren't asymptomatic, they just had very mild symptoms and were vectors.
Oh wait, no, no, turns out asymptomatic probably are vectors.
Oh and the antibodies tests...not as promising as we thought.

So where are we now? Wave 1.5?

[Omega10]

It's been too long thread!

Last time I was hear everything about to open. Lo and behold, COVID19 cases have gone up since then. Who would have thought?

I liked when people attempted to blame the protests for a day or two except protesters generally wear mask and opening up before the protests even began.

I saw a local place open its dining room one weekend and immediately close it the next (smart of them).

Good news, WHO said asymptomatic don't spread the virus!
Wait no, those people weren't asymptomatic, they just had very mild symptoms and were vectors.
Oh wait, no, no, turns out asymptomatic probably are vectors.
Oh and the antibodies tests...not as promising as we thought.

So where are we now? Wave 1.5?

The US business community and main stream media worked hard to pin the blame for virus comebacks on protestors rather than the general opening up of business in America, but I think it's mostly just making them look dishonest and downright evil. "You die so we can make money" does not work well as an advertising slogan.

The meatpacking industry has not been so good either. Come to work. If you get the virus, no problem you'll be fired and replaced. They did not put it quite so bluntly, but it's not far from what their policy is.

[bmjclark]

It's kind of interesting how coronavirus is seeing a pretty big resurgence in certain parts of the US but not in places like Canada. I'd assume people are getting pretty lax about this every where but maybe I'm just underestimating how much people in certain states don't care about Coronavirus at all. It's also honestly easy to forget it's even happening considering the media latched on to the newer story with the protests.

Also, it seems Arizona is nearing capacity on it's hospitals. Hope anyone on here from there is staying safe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/ariz...-capacity.html

[LilSaihah]

So where are we now? Wave 1.5?

Can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends

[xenogear3]

Also, it seems Arizona is nearing capacity on it's hospitals. Hope anyone on here from there is staying safe.

Arizona temperature is 110 degrees F.
Trump said the virus cannot survive at 90 degrees.

[exochaft]

It's kind of interesting how coronavirus is seeing a pretty big resurgence in certain parts of the US but not in places like Canada. I'd assume people are getting pretty lax about this every where but maybe I'm just underestimating how much people in certain states don't care about Coronavirus at all. It's also honestly easy to forget it's even happening considering the media latched on to the newer story with the protests.

Also, it seems Arizona is nearing capacity on it's hospitals. Hope anyone on here from there is staying safe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/ariz...-capacity.html

There's way more to that story that's not being told, and you can see it with AZ's official goverment released numbers that they tabulate on a daily basis. Yes, the number of corona cases did surge, but it was entirely expected for various reasons. First of all, their lockdown only ended a couple weeks ago, so people interacting again after isolating plus the standard incubation period lines up. Secondly, one of the 'conditions' for reopening was increased testing... and if you increase the number of people you test, you're going to have an increase in the number of people popping positive. Thirdly, the capacity of the hospitals is going up is because non-emergency procedures are allowed again after the lockdown ended, and since these are typically the bulk of what hospitals see they will start approaching capacity. Fourth, actual hospitalization (and deaths) due to COVID-19 specifically is dropping rapidly despite the increase in people going to the hospital... basically, they're testing everyone (regardless of reason) when they come into the hospitals (again, increased testing as mentioned earlier). If you read the article, you can tell it's evasive as it only tells you about the number of cases of COVID-19 went up... but the reality is that hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID-19 are going down even though the number of people testing positive for corona is going up, meaning almost all those cases are either mild or showing no symptoms.

And their protests were allowed to happen. Because it's the protests that are protected, not re-opening a hair salon.

That's technically incorrect, as many businesses would fall under the protection of the 14th Amendment. Specifically, "nor shall the State deprive any person of their life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Keep in mind, this applies not only to people but also to corporations, of which many of the businesses forced to close down likely were.

While many see the obvious bait of "you just want to kill people so you can get a hair cut!", the reality is that salon is providing food/shelter/healthcare benefits/etc. not only to the owners/employers, but also the employees. Telling them that they're 'non-essential' is telling them they can't provide for themselves and their family, especially if that was their only source of income. I even personally know barbers and stylists who are struggling and have even reduced their caloric intake for themselves and their families because they literally can't put enough food on the table because they had to pay for housing/heating/utility bills. This sort of situation doesn't just happen to salons and barbershops, it extends to anyone (almost exclusively small businesses) who was ordered by their state to shut down or be fined/imprisoned. Keep in mind, roughly 40 million people went unemployed due to shutting down, and there has been little to no compensation, let alone due process under the law, for the individuals and business.

The origins of the 14th Amendment come around the end of slavery in the US, as it was to give African Americans full citizenship. However, it also limited the power of the States from using their power to prevent individuals from exercising their full rights, which is the clause I stated earlier. Basically, it's application applies beyond race, and is meant for the states to treat everyone equally under the same level of protection as the US Constitution (states can't do something that is contradictory to the Constitution, as a simple example). How does this apply to businesses and their owners/employees? Instead of denying life, liberty, or property based upon what the state government's preference in terms of the color of their skin, it's denying the aforementioned items based upon the state government picking and choosing which businesses they will allow to open and ones they will force to lose. This not only denies the rights of the businesses, but directly and indirectly denies the rights of of the staff/employees who work in that business.

Now the problem the states will run into is that almost all these orders are or are similar to executive orders, meaning they aren't actual laws... yet they're being enforced as such in many cases. While this sort of news may have escaped major news sources, but there have been many instances of state/local governments attempting or actually fining/imprisoning people for opening up their businesses against such executive orders. However, once there is push back, these actions typically get reversed and the businesses are allowed to open and operate. The reason is two-fold: the state governments know they don't actually have the legal standing to enforce such orders, and the optics are terrible as they know they're depriving people of their livelihood. All it really takes is the populace to stand up and say they know their rights, and the governments will back off if they know they're in the wrong and don't have the political will to fight against it. As icing on the cake, there's already lawsuits being filed against states based upon what I've already mentioned.

So what's this boil down to? If you want to be completely reductive, state governments ordering people to shut down their businesses is telling the owners and their employees and families to starve, go into massive debt and/or lose their property, and in many cases causing the business to permanently shut down (completely ignoring all the secondary effects that come with it, like increased suicide rates, increased drug use/overdosing, increased risk of health issues due to lack of being able to receive care, etc.). However, I'm not so insensitive to say that's completely fair despite it being effectively true, so I'll add the following:

The entire point of the system of government that we have in the US is that the individuals, not the elected officials, are the ones running the show... which means the individuals are responsible for themselves and the choices they make (government only exists to basically protect the rights of the citizens). When it comes specifically to COVID-19, it's been know since the beginning that it's almost exclusively an issue for elderly people and/or people with certain comorbidity factors. What should happen (and did happen when people were given a choice) is that people take the standard precautions appropriate: wash your hands, clean your surfaces, if you're sick you stay home, if you are part of the demographic that is really susceptible to the virus stay at home and avoid crowded areas, etc.. What was happen was insanely heavy-handed, broad stroke government forcing unnecessary and overreaching authority on its citizens. Worse still, the implementations were generally nonsensical in terms of the application of the lockdowns (small businesses had to shut down, but large corporations didn't have to in many cases) as well as the practices themselves. If I had to hazard a guess, the only reason this silliness has lasted as long as it has is that people are dealing with a sense of mortality, whether it's based in logic or not... and most people have been living such comfortable lives for so long that they can't help living in the prison of their own minds.

Alright, this got WAY longer than I intended, but it's a subject that I enjoy discussing.

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Arizona temperature is 110 degrees F.
Trump said the virus cannot survive at 90 degrees.

There's multiple studies showing that high temperatures and sunlight quickly kill this virus, as it did with SARS-1. Also similar to SARS-1 where a Canadian study was done to figure out why there was a 2nd outbreak, COVID-19 (SARS-2) thrives in climate controlled environments (typically low-mid 70F) and dry conditions. Typical places with these conditions are... people's homes, nursing homes, hospitals, etc. The virus will live on surfaces (fomites) under these condition for around 5 days, which is why SARS-1 had a second wave and why the virus was stubbornly sticking around in these environments. This is also why places like nursing homes have been super deadly and breeding grounds for COVID-19, on top of being full of older people with comorbidity factors. If you look at the state-by-state breakdown for deaths, it's usually between 50-80% of the deaths are coming from LTC's and nursing homes.

[Nellise]

Fourth, actual hospitalization (and deaths) due to COVID-19 specifically is dropping rapidly despite the increase in people going to the hospital...

Show your work on this. Deaths and hospitalizations in Arizona are not decreasing in any data I can find.

[Forogil]

Can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends

Ah, but that's why WHO says that some countries are headed for a second peak - not a second wave.

And then there is Iran that seems to be headed for a third peak at the moment.

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Some places have clearly run out of hospital space now, like Mumbai (former Bombay) India:

"It's a war zone. There are two to three patients per bed, some on the floor, some in corridors. We don't have enough oxygen ports. So even though some patients need it, they can't be given oxygen."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52798740
https://www.mumbailive.com/en/health...patients-49548

Note that India has a strict lockdown from March 25th, and as far as I understand only began a limited lifting that in some regions June 8th.

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There's way more to that story that's not being told, and you can see it with AZ's official goverment released numbers that they tabulate on a daily basis. Yes, the number of corona cases did surge, but it was entirely expected for various reasons. First of all, their lockdown only ended a couple weeks ago, so people interacting again after isolating plus the standard incubation period lines up. Secondly, one of the 'conditions' for reopening was increased testing... and if you increase the number of people you test, you're going to have an increase in the number of people popping positive.

Their dashboards doesn't show a large increase in PCR-testing and more worryingly the positive PCR-rate was 5% in the beginning of May and is now 13%, which would likely indicate more unknown cases. (The number serology tests seems to be decreasing, but they are not that relevant for this.)

Hospitalization intake seems fairly constant - but number of ICU beds in use are increasing slowly.

https://www.azdhs.gov/preparedness/e...ards/index.php

[Gorsameth]

All the Karens were protesting that the hair salons were closed. It may be a outrageously frivolous thing to protest over but it seems to be a Constitutionally protected right.

Its their right to protest, just like it is our right to be able to tell them that they are stupid over protesting to re-open the hair salon.

For the most part people were not saying that the early protests should have been banned, but that the people protesting were stupid.

It's kind of interesting how coronavirus is seeing a pretty big resurgence in certain parts of the US but not in places like Canada. I'd assume people are getting pretty lax about this every where but maybe I'm just underestimating how much people in certain states don't care about Coronavirus at all. It's also honestly easy to forget it's even happening considering the media latched on to the newer story with the protests.

Also, it seems Arizona is nearing capacity on it's hospitals. Hope anyone on here from there is staying safe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/ariz...-capacity.html

I assume Canada took proper stops and largely stopped the spread, so that while people are getting more lax there is not a lot of virus going around to instantly flare back up.

The US never properly stopped the spread outside of a few hotspots so there is still a lot of virus going around.

You know, the difference between relaxing when you have 30k active cases vs 1.1 mil (not that active case numbers are reliable, but you get the gist).

[PACOX]

There's multiple studies showing that high temperatures and sunlight quickly kill this virus, as it did with SARS-1. Also similar to SARS-1 where a Canadian study was done to figure out why there was a 2nd outbreak, COVID-19 (SARS-2) thrives in climate controlled environments (typically low-mid 70F) and dry conditions. Typical places with these conditions are... people's homes, nursing homes, hospitals, etc. The virus will live on surfaces (fomites) under these condition for around 5 days, which is why SARS-1 had a second wave and why the virus was stubbornly sticking around in these environments. This is also why places like nursing homes have been super deadly and breeding grounds for COVID-19, on top of being full of older people with comorbidity factors. If you look at the state-by-state breakdown for deaths, it's usually between 50-80% of the deaths are coming from LTC's and nursing homes.

1) SARS was a chump compared COVID19. SARS could barely leave mainland China. It then fizzled out. COVID19 has yet to slow down.

2) Someone tell COVID19 it's not supposed to thrive in hot environments because it is sure running through the South where it's been hot since February.

3) The reason why it runs through LTC facilities is similar to why it runs through hospitals...and it is not the A/C. If it was the A/C CDC guidelines would be for every establishment to crank up the A/C.

The reason it spreads is because people are on top of each other and can't go anywhere The virus spreads before you even know someone is sick Staff cannot/won't just abandon their clients, with a shortage of PPE become vectors themselves. Hospitals cannot;won't take the clients until they are close to death. There's no 'ICU' wards in LTC. So the virus just runs its course. It has nothing to do with whether or not a place is 70F....


And that other stuff. Notice how state governments closed NON-ESSENTIALS. Nothing about getting a haircut is a 'right'. Absolutely nothing. The essentials stayed open, you know things actually related to life and liberty such as food, grocery stores, essentials services. AND they were ALLOWED to close if they chose to do so.

Movie theaters and salons aren't protected by anything. Both are 100% to the human condition, you can live, especially for a month, without both.

For those who lost their jobs...maybe if there were programs in place to mitigate financial woes in the event of a catastrophe - if we had a functional fed - those people would be able off.

Maybe if people actually wore masks, we had actual sick leave in this country, PPE was distributed based on need and not the highest bidders, if we had real leaders who didn't spread false information, we would not even had to close. See eastern countries.

[Tuor]

For those that are still relating temperature with sars-cov-2, just forget it. The virus cames from bats, whille flying bat temperature easely hits 40ºC (average human temperature is 36-37ºC), so the virus has absolutely no problem dealing with hot temperatures, he has evolved to do be able to.

[PhaelixWW]

That's technically incorrect, as many businesses would fall under the protection of the 14th Amendment. Specifically, "nor shall the State deprive any person of their life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Keep in mind, this applies not only to people but also to corporations, of which many of the businesses forced to close down likely were.

Uh, no. The lockdowns were not a violation of the 14th Amendment, sorry.

[PACOX]

Can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends

Timing.

My workplace is on strict lockdown again.

[Felya]

There's multiple studies showing that high temperatures and sunlight quickly kill this virus, as it did with SARS-1.

You do know that the world is round and in February, it was summer in Australia?

Speaking of corona and Australia:

[Edge-]

You do know that the world is round and in February, it was summer in Australia?

I'm deeply amused that people seem to forget that the seasons are opposite on the other side of the hemisphere.

Or that the "Don't worry, hot weather will kill it!" bullshit has been debunked for the better part of what...since it was initially brought up by people with no medical or scientific training and don't know what the fuck they're talking about?