1. #18781
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.

    Wait and see is my point of view.
    I’d say that claim is the most suspect of them all, but then again... Putin isn’t a normal human so who knows if he cares about using his daughter as a guinea pig before taking it himself.

  2. #18782
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.

    Wait and see is my point of view.
    Going to need proof that his daughter actually took the "vaccine" and not just some placebo or just a claim since no one saw it happen.

  3. #18783
    The thing about Russia is that this could be true but they are habitual and serial liars so I simply won't believe them.

    Even if they 'proved' it I'd err on the side of nothe believing them.

  4. #18784
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    Florida has nearly 6,000 more cases today. They are averaging 25,000 cases per million people. 21.5 million people in Florida. Meanwhile in Canada, we are averaging 3,800 cases per million people with a population of 35 million.

    So I guess I have to ask, what the fuck are they doing in Florida?

  5. #18785
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Russia has approved the world’s first vaccine for covid. Lots of worry about how safe it is considering how much they rushed through development, but Putin assures us it passed all the necessary tests.
    Haven't the doctors trying to blow the whistle on the situation in Russia like...repeatedly fallen out of windows from multiple stories up? You know, accidentally?

  6. #18786
    Quote Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
    Going to need proof that his daughter actually took the "vaccine" and not just some placebo or just a claim since no one saw it happen.
    Well, the minimum would be to know her name.

  7. #18787
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.

    Wait and see is my point of view.
    And when an independent outside doctor verifies that this has indeed happened, I will believe he did so. And I still wouldn't be willing to take it.

    Words are cheap, its easy to say "I (or someone else) took X, everything is fine" when we have no way of knowing if that statement is true and every reason to suspect it is not.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #18788
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    The thing about Russia is that this could be true but they are habitual and serial liars so I simply won't believe them.
    Even if you completely believe Russia it doesn't change that much.

    https://sputniknews.com/russia/20200...red-in-russia/
    says that the vaccine isn't for people over 60 year (although almost all the deaths are in this group) and that it will not be available to the broader public this year as the "introduction into civil circulation" according to official registration document is at the start of 2021.
    (There are some conflicting reports on when it become available, there are some claims that mass production will begin in september and "wider vaccinations in October", but "wider" is a loose term https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN24X3KO )

    Some other vaccines have likely undergone enough of phase 3 at that time, and companies are also building production facilities for them that are supposed to be ready by then. Obviously they may fail in phase 3 - and/or the Russian vaccine fail in practice.

  9. #18789
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    However, to say that New York (and to a lesser extent some other cities like Chicago) would have avoided 22k deaths if they followed SF's lead is also oversimplifying it, as NY had those deaths earlier, and we believe that treatment is now better (and one could understand if people are more relaxed now in NY as the outbreak is less active there).
    The first confirmed case in the Bay Area was in February. No confirmed cases in NY yet at that time.

    The biggest difference between NY and SF is on how they respond to the pandemic. SF started way early.

    December 31 - Colfax, director of SF Dept. of Public Health briefed the mayor that the City should start preparing for Covid-19.

    January 21 - Emergency preparedness plans were activated simultaneously at three major San Francisco institutions: the teaching hospital at UCSF Medical Center, SF General, and Department of Public Health. The two hospitals canceled elective surgeries and cleared entire floors to create surge wards filled with intensive-care beds. The health department streamlined command and control to focus the entire department on corona virus.

    January 27 - Mayor Breed activated the city government's own Emergency Operations Center, preparing to coordinate a response across departments, plan outreach efforts, and commandeer city property and resources.

    February 25 - With only 53 confirmed cases in the US, 10 in California, and still not a single one confirmed in SF, Breed declared a local state of emergency. Gutsy move by her.

    February 26 - 28 - Twitter’s Jack Dorsey told all of his employees to work from home. By the end of that week, Lyft, Uber, Google, FB, Apple and every single businesses that could do so had done the same. Collectively taking out 100,000 workers out of circulation.

    March 6 - Supervisor of the SF District which includes Chinatown issued stay-at-home order for his District with the approval of the mayor. Which probably partially account for this "looking at SF itself the number of cases also varies significantly on a small scale, with Nob Hill reporting almost twice the rate of cases as nearby Chinatown." Also, residents of Chinatown were wearing masks since January and February. Well ahead of the City's ordinance requiring face coverings in late May.

    March 13 - The city's health officer joined a conference call with six other Bay Area health officers. By California law, they have the authority to issue legally binding health orders. By the evening, they issued the stay-at-home order. Breed did the same an hour later.


    There are several other factors involved. To name a few,

    SF was the epicenter of the AID pandemic that took the life of thousands of its residence. There were a lot of institutional knowledge on how to deal with a pandemic built into the system.

    Young and healthy population with low instances of obesity and diabetic.

    Highly educated population that immediately recognized the need for mask and social distancing. Not a lot of outrage.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2020-08-11 at 05:12 PM.

  10. #18790
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    ♫ Somebody once told me corona's gonna own me. We ain't the sharpest tools in the shed. ♫
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  11. #18791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    So I guess I have to ask, what the fuck are they doing in Florida?
    Not a gahdamn thing.

  12. #18792
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The biggest difference between NY and SF is on how they respond to the pandemic.
    San Francisco is the wealthiest large city in the US. It has 10% poverty rate compared to 20% in NYC (89,000 people versus 1.6 million people). NYC has another 22% living near poverty on top of that. We know this is affecting lower income people disproportionately. You can't really fairly compare the two cities.
    Last edited by Nellise; 2020-08-11 at 07:13 PM.

  13. #18793
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    San Francisco is the wealthiest large city in the US. It has 10% poverty rate compared to 20% in NYC (89,000 people versus 1.6 million people). We know this is affecting lower income people disproportionately. You can't really fairly compare the two cities.
    Not 1:1, but in terms of how the cities prepared for and first started handling it, you can.

    https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus...e-january.html

    Compare this timeline to the one @Rasulis laid out for SF and you see that SF's earlier and more aggressive measures absolutely played a factor in its huge success at combating the spread of the virus.

    Yes, SF has some advantages in being an overall wealthier city in terms of residents, but that ignores the huge numbers of people from neighboring cities and counties who commute into the city every day and are not exactly part of the upper class.

    Mind you, while SF was absolutely crushing it in their response Trump was out there calling the city a "slum" and threatening to send in the feds to "clean it up" - https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...-puppy-1495011

  14. #18794
    Can someone post a list of possible consequences of releasing not fully tested vaccine for mass use.

  15. #18795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Florida has nearly 6,000 more cases today. They are averaging 25,000 cases per million people. 21.5 million people in Florida. Meanwhile in Canada, we are averaging 3,800 cases per million people with a population of 35 million.

    So I guess I have to ask, what the fuck are they doing in Florida?
    Tourist season and making service industry workers essential combined with no mask ordinances.

    Not to mention south Florida is called Gods Waiting Room due to the massive amount of elderly.

    DeSantis being a cultist of the bull god as well.
    Wall of LOLs

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I'm not opposed to incest

  16. #18796
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The first confirmed case in the Bay Area was in February. No confirmed cases in NY yet at that time.

    The biggest difference between NY and SF is on how they respond to the pandemic. SF started way early.

    December 31 - Colfax, director of SF Dept. of Public Health briefed the mayor that the City should start preparing for Covid-19.

    January 21 - Emergency preparedness plans were activated simultaneously at three major San Francisco institutions: the teaching hospital at UCSF Medical Center, SF General, and Department of Public Health. The two hospitals canceled elective surgeries and cleared entire floors to create surge wards filled with intensive-care beds. The health department streamlined command and control to focus the entire department on corona virus.

    January 27 - Mayor Breed activated the city government's own Emergency Operations Center, preparing to coordinate a response across departments, plan outreach efforts, and commandeer city property and resources.

    February 25 - With only 53 confirmed cases in the US, 10 in California, and still not a single one confirmed in SF, Breed declared a local state of emergency. Gutsy move by her.

    February 26 - 28 - Twitter’s Jack Dorsey told all of his employees to work from home. By the end of that week, Lyft, Uber, Google, FB, Apple and every single businesses that could do so had done the same. Collectively taking out 100,000 workers out of circulation.

    March 6 - Supervisor of the SF District which includes Chinatown issued stay-at-home order for his District with the approval of the mayor. Which probably partially account for this "looking at SF itself the number of cases also varies significantly on a small scale, with Nob Hill reporting almost twice the rate of cases as nearby Chinatown." Also, residents of Chinatown were wearing masks since January and February. Well ahead of the City's ordinance requiring face coverings in late May.

    March 13 - The city's health officer joined a conference call with six other Bay Area health officers. By California law, they have the authority to issue legally binding health orders. By the evening, they issued the stay-at-home order. Breed did the same an hour later.


    There are several other factors involved. To name a few,

    SF was the epicenter of the AID pandemic that took the life of thousands of its residence. There were a lot of institutional knowledge on how to deal with a pandemic built into the system.

    Young and healthy population with low instances of obesity and diabetic.

    Highly educated population that immediately recognized the need for mask and social distancing. Not a lot of outrage.
    Ok, that detailed description makes a lot more sense (except for the Dec. 31 date - I haven't seen that in other sources and it seems odd since the disease wasn't named and the first death was reported around January 12th) than the simplified table suggesting that if NY would just have to followed SF in face coverings almost everyone would be saved in NY, when in reality there are a number of other factors at play - some of which the cities have no control over.

    Basically people want simple solution that preferably require minimal work - hydroxychloroquine, face masks, vaccine, etc (not denying that some of them can be effective; but not 100% effective), not to be told to also work from home, prepare ICUs by stopping elective surgery, physically distance, stay at home, etc.

  17. #18797
    Not gonna buy into Russia's claim. There always is a chance that the vaccine they made is THE one, but... no mass tests? That is like begging to find out which groups of people will have complications.

    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.

    Wait and see is my point of view.
    First and most obvious thing - you really believe that?
    Second - who the fuck tests it on their own children? He should have taken it instead, especially as he is more or less in the risk group.
    We already know they tried to hide the real count of doctor's deaths plus the lack of PPE's. Makes one wonder what else they are hiding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  18. #18798
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Not gonna buy into Russia's claim. There always is a chance that the vaccine they made is THE one, but... no mass tests? That is like begging to find out which groups of people will have complications.
    Everything Russia claims should be, as usual, taken with a massive grain of salt.

    They certainly have the capacity, the people and the knowledge to develop a vaccine - no doubt there, but whether this thing is real, effective or was just some slapdash work with cut corners just for the sake of sticking it to the West... nobody knows really.

    My guesstimate is that it is real, but likely not tested properly so who knows how effective it is and what strings are attached there.

  19. #18799
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Can someone post a list of possible consequences of releasing not fully tested vaccine for mass use.
    Depends on the vaccine: it may contain a viable virus and you get the disease (unlikely in this case - but happened for Polio), bad manufacturing so some patients are just poisoned and die (Russian-made injections does not inspire confidence), the immune system getting messed up leading to a number of issues (immune thrombocytopenic purpura, Guillain-Barre, nacrolepsy, ...), or just plain not working - so the disease spread while people think they are immune, allergies, etc.

    In addition to the headache and pain associated with a working vaccine (and some of the issues above also happen with working vaccines).
    All issues also have the consequence of reducing vaccination for working vaccines increasing outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases like measles.

    Oh, and regarding the Russian vaccine. It seems it's sort of like two similar vaccines (different for the two shots) - which would increase the likelihood that it produces an immune-response and/or an adverse effect.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-08-11 at 08:09 PM.

  20. #18800
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    (except for the Dec. 31 date - I haven't seen that in other sources and it seems odd since the disease wasn't named and the first death was reported around January 12th)
    Grant Colfax did his residency at UCSF during the height of AIDs epidemic and was Obama's director of national AIDS policy. One of the best pandemic expert in the world. Probably a bit overqualified for his position. The day he went to brief the mayor was the day China first release their first public message about the disease (although they called it a pneumonia outbreak) and the U.S. CDC said it first learned of a “cluster of 27 cases of pneumonia” of unexplained origin in Wuhan, China, on December 31, 2019.

    In most cities in the US, his early warning probably would have been ignored as fearmongering. Except in SF. Where most of the high-ranking health officials were once fighting in the trenches during the AIDs epidemic.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2020-08-11 at 08:13 PM.

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