1. #18801
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.

    Wait and see is my point of view.
    Yes, let us take a know liar on his word. It is actually a breach of protocol to use your own family as test subjects, what should say enough about this.

    You are free to use it blindly, your funeral or your kids not mine. History has plenty of cases of how wrong this can go.

    The russian people will once more become the victim to boost Putin's fragile ego as his popularity taken a dive in handling this crisis, this is all optics nothing more.

  2. #18802
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Grant Colfax did his residency at UCSF during the height of AIDs epidemic and was Obama's director of national AIDS policy. One of the best pandemic expert in the world. Probably a bit overqualified for his position. The day he went to brief the mayor was the day China first release their first public message about the disease (although they called it a pneumonia outbreak) and the U.S. CDC said it first learned of a “cluster of 27 cases of pneumonia” of unexplained origin in Wuhan, China, on December 31, 2019.
    Do you have any source confirming that? I find it doubtful that he went to the major on New Years Eve to report a cluster of pneumonia in China that hadn't killed anyone - and that they should start preparing for it.

  3. #18803
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Depends on the vaccine: it may contain a viable virus and you get the disease (unlikely in this case - but happened for Polio)
    It's important to point out that the only reason this happened with polio is because the OPV is much cheaper than the IPV; the IPV has been available for longer, though. Had there been sufficient money/will, there never would have been a live-attenuated virus vaccine ever used for polio.
    Last edited by PhaelixWW; 2020-08-11 at 08:27 PM.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  4. #18804
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Do you have any source confirming that? I find it doubtful that he went to the major on New Years Eve to report a cluster of pneumonia in China that hadn't killed anyone - and that they should start preparing for it.
    San Francisco Was Uniquely Prepared for Covid-19

    ON DECEMBER 31 last year, Chinese health officials released their first official report of a mysterious pneumonia outbreak in the city of Wuhan. Within a day, a Reuters article about that outbreak appeared in one of the many professional daily newsfeeds to which Diane Havlir subscribes.

    The Wuhan outbreak also caught the attention of Grant Colfax, who had done his medical residency at UCSF and served as President Obama's director of national AIDS policy before taking his current job as director of the San Francisco Department of Public Health. “As I was watching the data,” Colfax told me, “there was an increasing consensus that once it got here it would move quickly, and also a foreboding sense that there was not a coordinated federal response. We were going to need to react locally and regionally and create systems without sufficient operational support from the federal side.”

    Deciding it was time to tell the mayor, Colfax walked out of his office in San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza, crossed Grove Street, ascended the broad marble steps of City Hall, and made his way up to the second floor. There, he briefed Mayor London Breed, a pragmatic San Francisco native who grew up in low-income housing near City Hall. Breed confesses that she was initially skeptical in the face of Colfax's alarm.

    “I was getting a little tired of hearing every day that this thing is going to be big,” says Breed. “I was like, ‘We don't have any cases!’ I don't think I really understood until they explained, ‘Here's the number of hospital beds we have and ICUs and ventilators, and if we do nothing, people are going to die, like a lot of people.’”


    There was no date about when he came to her office. So you are right, he probably came to her office in early January 2020.

  5. #18805
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Everything Russia claims should be, as usual, taken with a massive grain of salt.

    They certainly have the capacity, the people and the knowledge to develop a vaccine - no doubt there, but whether this thing is real, effective or was just some slapdash work with cut corners just for the sake of sticking it to the West... nobody knows really.

    My guesstimate is that it is real, but likely not tested properly so who knows how effective it is and what strings are attached there.
    Dude, you need five years, FIVE YEARS, to test it properly on people for long-term effects.
    Now, you really want to watch the world economy going to shit until 2025? Be my guest n sink your country, but others won't follow.

    This vaccine has been in development for years for the other corona bullshit China was responsible for years ago (SARS is one form of coronavirus). Russia is a neighbor to China, this is why this concern was going on and why they could make it work for covid-19 too/instead (I'm not an expert on this matter)
    There have been variations on SARS n such, and Covid-19 the latest put more funding n effort to get the vaccine done.

    While most of the world got off lightly from SARS (dunno why Canada was hit harder than most), many were spooked


    I think this dude takes a very neutral approach, would be best if the world put their efforts together instead of bickering...
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2020-08-11 at 08:43 PM.

  6. #18806
    Well I mean, of course it will be explored.

    Our Minister of Health straight said they have scheduled the talks in regards with Russian counterparts and if we will get convinced it's a serious product, then there will be negotiations for order."

    Nobody is taking such things as is.

  7. #18807
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Well I mean, of course it will be explored.

    Our Minister of Health straight said they have scheduled the talks in regards with Russian counterparts and if we will get convinced it's a serious product, then there will be negotiations for order."

    Nobody is taking such things as is.
    There is just no way Russia beat Europe to a vaccine for COVID-19. I wouldn't take aspirin produced by Russian at this point....

  8. #18808
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    It's important to point out that the only reason this happened with polio is because the OPV is much cheaper than the IPV; the IPV has been available for longer, though. Had there been sufficient money/will, there never would have been a live-attenuated virus vaccine ever used for polio.
    Not the only reason. There was also issues with the manufacture of IPV.

    Also, I believe the OPV produces a stronger immunity, making it more suitable for initial vaccination campaigns in endemic areas.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  9. #18809
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Not the only reason. There was also issues with the manufacture of IPV.
    And there were also incidents 20 years before that, which some say delayed the vaccines by about 20 years.

  10. #18810
    We (new zealand) are sadly going back into lock down after 2 months of relative normality

    Pretty much from people not doing quarantine properly and skipping it completely when flying into the country.
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  11. #18811
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    There is just no way Russia beat Europe to a vaccine for COVID-19. I wouldn't take aspirin produced by Russian at this point....
    I am sure their vaccines prevents COVID-19 infections, you can't get sick if you're dead

  12. #18812
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    We (new zealand) are sadly going back into lock down after 2 months of relative normality

    Pretty much from people not doing quarantine properly and skipping it completely when flying into the country.
    Still, the fact new cases were identified so quickly and measures are being rolled out equally as speedily are credits to the government's handling of the situation.

    I bet it was some British tourists again...
    "Multiculturalism has failed!" angrily types a person of European descent living in the Americas in a Germanic language using Roman characters on a device coded with Arabic numerals before leaving in a huff to go watch cartoons made in Japan.

  13. #18813
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Not the only reason. There was also issues with the manufacture of IPV.
    Fair enough, although that was more because they failed to make the IPV properly than because of a flaw with the IPV itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Also, I believe the OPV produces a stronger immunity, making it more suitable for initial vaccination campaigns in endemic areas.
    Live-attenuated virus vaccines pretty much always produce a stronger immune response, though I suppose this point is also fair. OPV continues to be used today, however, long after that benefit would be called for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    And there were also incidents 20 years before that, which some say delayed the vaccines by about 20 years.
    But again, that was during the development of the vaccine, prior to its approval, and related to the OPV, not the IPV.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  14. #18814
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I am sure their vaccines prevents COVID-19 infections, you can't get sick if you're dead
    Lol.

    Side effect: May cause food poisoning.

  15. #18815
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    There is just no way Russia beat Europe to a vaccine for COVID-19. I wouldn't take aspirin produced by Russian at this point....
    Why no way, there is certainly a "way", they have the capabilities for it - there are many brilliant scientists and researchers and they do have the equipment and $$ for this one.

    I am pretty certain that it's at least half-true. For one you can be sure they made a considerable effort at it, as every nation with any sort of decent research capability and it's quite probable they at least were on to something.

    The problem, most likely, is in testing, reliability and maybe safety. Even besides that, it could work, but require multiple applications to take effect or simply not always produce the desired effect.

    I mean there is a chance there is no problem at all too, let's not all be hasty there - that's why the thing will need to be scrutinized before you can just wave it off as another doze of Russian bullshit.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2020-08-12 at 02:45 AM.

  16. #18816
    Merely a Setback Breccia's Avatar
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    So let's talk about--

    I hope that the Russians have actually, definitively proven that the vaccine is safe and effective. I seriously doubt that they've done that
    -- Dr. Fauci

    Nevermind. Moving on.

  17. #18817
    Quote Originally Posted by Volatilis View Post
    We (new zealand) are sadly going back into lock down after 2 months of relative normality

    Pretty much from people not doing quarantine properly and skipping it completely when flying into the country.
    That's... not entirely right.

    Only Auckland is in lock down. The rest are just going back to "hey stop having huge groupings" and we don't know where the new cases came from. It shouldn't be people skipping quarantine but obviously we need to find how it did get in

  18. #18818
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    Putin announced his daughter has taken the vaccine.

    That's more significant then some might realize. In Eastern Europe, especially for families like Putin's, to put your children on health on the line is fairly extraordinary.
    What Putin say and what Putin do is not nessesery the same thing.
    Last edited by Fantomen; 2020-08-12 at 04:19 AM.

  19. #18819
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    I'm quoting this out of order because this is the really interesting part. Firstly, OK, to save my time let's call it a hypothesis, you flatter me, I begrudgingly accept the credit.
    I'm not sure why you think you should be flattered, or why there's credit to be had in a hypothesis that was so obviously false to begin with. Nor can you even take credit for being the one to prove that it's obviously false, because you've been fighting tooth and nail to resist that fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Funny that you claim that it's wrong after spending so many words to explain why it's right
    Funny that you somehow believe I've explained anything other than why it's wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Now important question: how do you plan to prove the softcap hypothesis to be wrong without waiting a year+ until the pandemic is over? (actual English language over, not your laughably nonsensical "peak X means that X is at its minimum" over)
    Your apparent lack of being able to comprehend the difference between "figurative" vs. "literal" aside, I don't need to do a thing to prove that the obviously false hypothesis is obviously false.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    After all this pain, sweat and tears shed by you, tell the class which is bigger, 260083 or 255621?
    I really don't know why you keep thinking that you're scoring points here. Do you really think that simple math is beyond me? No, the problem is that you are incapable of seeing any kind of bigger picture. To you it's just "today is smaller than yesterday so we must have peaked!"

    First it was "which is bigger, 260083 or 254176?" Then it was "which is bigger, 260083 or 255621?" After yesterday, and just as I predicted, it was "which is bigger, 260283 or 258021?" So far today, we're 10k cases up from last Tuesday, which means we're now at "which is bigger, 260283 or 259408?"

    That's right, the 6k decrease that you hailed as proof that the world has peaked is now down to 875. As far as the question goes, well, I'm patient. I don't need to be proved right today in order to trust in logic and reason over emotions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Oxford dictionary tells me "to peak" means "Reach a highest point, either of a specified value or at a specified time."
    Cambridge dictionary tells me it means "to reach the highest, strongest, or best point, value, or level of skill".
    Dictionaries aren't in the habit of giving figurative meanings, only literal ones. I'm not sure why you think they would, but then again, you don't seem to understand the difference between the two. FYI, both the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries have entries for "figuratively" that you might want to read.

    By way of an example, if a soccer (football) team is down 10-0 with 5 minutes left in regulation, someone might say the game is over. Pretty much everyone listening would understand that said person was speaking figuratively, because it's blatantly obvious that the game isn't literally over. You'd be that one, sad person who incorrectly decides, without anything resembling reason, that the speaker must have been speaking literally. Congratulations.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    7-day rolling average of daily cases for Covid-19 on planet Earth has peaked on July 30th. That's 12 days ago. Objectively. Go ahead and deny it again, we both know you hate this fact
    And yet... still not a fact. Also, the high mark is now on July 31st, and today was only 875 (0.3%) lower. What will the next few days bring, I wonder?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    I believe that case count in USA will reach 10 million, up from current 5. Some of these people will test positive without being sick, but some people will get sick without being registered as a Covid case, so it will approximately cancel out. Following me so far? 330 million total minus 10 million sick equals 320 million of never sick. Understand now?
    There are almost certainly far more than 10 million people who have already been infected in the US. But even if we're talking about just the confirmed cases, you honestly think that the US is already halfway done with COVID? That's a bold and also very likely false prediction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Note that I'm all for social distancing, mask usage and cancellation of super spreader events. That's not too much to ask of these 320 million healthy people to save some lives, I'm doing the same where I live. Competent countries do well with just these 3 measures (closed borders is not personal). But forcing additional unnecessary restrictions onto these innocent people, pushing them into misery and poverty, that's cruel and I don't approve.
    You still have yet to prove the "misery and poverty" you're bemoaning. And most non-sociopaths would favor lives over economy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    It's especially bad when you think about those 2.7+ million (and soon to be more) who got Covid, survived, and now still have to suffer from restrictions they don't need.
    And yet there's no guarantee they can't get sick again, there's no guarantee they can't be carriers, and per your earlier comment, there's honestly no guarantee they all were actually infected to begin with. The number of recovered will be a factor in future decisions, I'm sure, but at 1% of the population, it's far from the largest concern.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Tell me this: if cases were actually declining, would that be good or bad? I'm saying it's good.
    Of course it would be. I can't wait 'til we're all past this. But I'm not going to lie to myself in an attempt to feel better, because it's counterproductive. And frankly I'm not particularly keen on other people lying about what is "truth" and "fact", either.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  20. #18820
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    What Putin say and what Putin do is not nessesery the same thing.
    Oh sure.

    It's more about the messaging he's sending here really. Because he's trying to say: Hey look I trust it enough for my own daughter to use it.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

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