1. #19281
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    And it happened:
    https://www.24ur.com/novice/korona/v...-12-otrok.html (use gogle translate)

    5 workers 12 kids got it in a kindergarden. I didnt take even a day .

  2. #19282
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Some interesting developments in the study of this virus which point at some more potential treatments.

    https://elemental.medium.com/a-super...d-31cb8eba9d63

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  3. #19283
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    if some of you weren't out trying to "lead a normal life" and could control yourself for a couple months WE would no longer be inconvenienced by this over hyped non sense.
    Factually wrong. What, you think the virus is going to just vanish? No. It wouldn't be a few months. This is not going to just vanish. We need a tangible cure or something to combat it.




    the over hyped part comes from inaccurate recordings of death statistics. when a person on their death bed anyways contracts covid then dies. the media chalks that up as a covid death because hospitals have to put that the person had covid at the time of death on their death certificate.
    Point out any studies that have proven this. Everything study I have found has not only found that you're wrong, but its the opposite. That 1) they don't have to put that as their cause of death and 2) we are actually under reporting covid deaths.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    i don't feel like i'm wrong. i absolutely feel your facts are incorrect. say what you will about that. time will tell.
    It already has. Facts are facts. They are not an opinion. They are not up for debate. They are Facts. The facts are, you're wrong and this is bad. Time has already shown that this is only getting worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    And it happened:
    https://www.24ur.com/novice/korona/v...-12-otrok.html (use gogle translate)

    5 workers 12 kids got it in a kindergarden. I didnt take even a day .
    Hasn't taken a day yet in any school that I know of. Most are finding that people have it day 1 because, and this is what they don't understand, asymptomatic is how most young people are.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  4. #19284
    fine.

    i'm an evil plague spreader.

    remember, 6ft tall, chubby, red beard, glasses. probably half ass wearing a mask. if you see a guy like this, just stay away from them.

    kind of like brian posehn without such a fubar'd face
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-09-03 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Minor Trolling
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  5. #19285
    also, i see some mention of covid spreading in schools and what not. we all knew this would happen when schools opened back up. we, my family, did the whole E learning at the end of last school year, then summer hit. everything was fine, the kids played in the neighborhood and no one got sick. the point i'm getting at is that my wife and i realized we are absolutely NOT qualified to be teachers. i can teach right from wrong, how to throw a ball, ride a bike, etc...but i am not the right person to try to teach a child the mental structure that school and a trained professional teacher are.

    one huge change of mind i've had during all of this is that the US needs to appreciate it's educators more. this is not an easy job by any means and the people that do it have a love for educating. most do, at least. that deserves recognition and higher pay.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    5 workers 12 kids got it in a kindergarden. I didnt take even a day .
    just curious, do you have children? because at this point after almost 6 months out of school i'm seeing a difference in a lot of the kids in this neighborhood. and it isn't good. school started back up for my kids (1st and 2nd graders) a couple weeks ago. fortunately, it's been fine and we haven't heard of any outbreaks in the schools here. individual cases, but not outbreaks.

    the term "ripping off the band-aid" comes to my mind at this stage of covid.
    Last edited by Vargulf the Happy Husky; 2020-09-03 at 11:03 AM.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  6. #19286
    Old God Yunru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    also, i see some mention of covid spreading in schools and what not. we all knew this would happen when schools opened back up. we, my family, did the whole E learning at the end of last school year, then summer hit. everything was fine, the kids played in the neighborhood and no one got sick. the point i'm getting at is that my wife and i realized we are absolutely NOT qualified to be teachers. i can teach right from wrong, how to throw a ball, ride a bike, etc...but i am not the right person to try to teach a child the mental structure that school and a trained professional teacher are.

    one huge change of mind i've had during all of this is that the US needs to appreciate it's educators more. this is not an easy job by any means and the people that do it have a love for educating. most do, at least. that deserves recognition and higher pay.

    - - - Updated - - -



    just curious, do you have children? because at this point after almost 6 months out of school i'm seeing a difference in a lot of the kids in this neighborhood. and it isn't good.

    the term "ripping off the band-aid" comes to my mind at this stage of covid.
    Lucky for me not yet.
    Kids are investment.

  7. #19287
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Lucky for me not yet.
    Kids are investment.
    lol indeed. they're fun tho.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  8. #19288
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    the term "ripping off the band-aid" comes to my mind at this stage of covid.
    What happened to ‘wait and see’?
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  9. #19289
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What happened to ‘wait and see’?
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  10. #19290
    The Insane Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/medium/

    see that part where it says "mixed"? "left leaning"? yes i read what i linked first and saw that Medium.com takes in a number of articles from differing opinions. seems like they post some real things, some not so real. some not vetted at all.

    oh shit medium.com was started by the twitter guy?? lol.

    here is the author of your article @Orange Joe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhett_Allain

    i don't doubt this man is more educated than me in his field (physics first, BLOGGING second), but nothing i can find lends any real credibility to this discussion other than "he wrote a fart covid article". i guess i brought it up in the first place. fair enough.

    ...... Again you are welcome to refute anything in his article. If a measurement is wrong feel free to provide proof as to how he is wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Did they ever get around to investigating the source of it or are we still blaming it on bat soup next to chinese virus lab?
    Does the source matter at this point?
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  11. #19291
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds?
    Uhm... 180000 dead... here is a prediction, more blood... lol

    i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.
    Because consistency is what’s at play here...

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.
    180000 dead... If you think media is fearmongering now, who is going to be the arbiter, once “wait and see” bares fruit?

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    What? That the president of US is telling us to ignore doctors and medical professionals? No... I don’t see politicians for my medical care... nor do I trust a real estate mogul, to shut down his business, to save lives.

    Not only are we not the same based on that quote, I don’t think you know what it means and what role you play in it. Snoochie Boochies... 420 brah!!
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, to accomplish the miracle of the One Thing.

  12. #19292
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    Lets add some context of exactly what 190,000 people means, so that we can tell if it is "Fear-mongering".

    Lets assume you live to 80 years old. Lets assume you meet and interact with 3 new people a day on average, which is pretty generous for most people. That is about 80,000 people. So this has killed more then twice as many people as you will ever speak to in your life.

    How about a different example: The 2007 Troop surge in Iraq under Obama sent our total Troop numbers in Iraq to 176,000. Imagine if every single one of them died in a six month period. Would it be overreacting to consider that a really big deal?

    How about comparing it to historical big deals? During WWII, an average of 220 Americans died in combat per day. Yesterday over 1,000 Americans died of Covid-19. It peaked at 2,700 per day. It has been over 220 every day since March 24, when it first crossed that number.

    WWI? About 50,000 combat deaths, and about 114,000 total deaths for the US (Mostly disease for the rest). That was about 18 months of war, Covid-19 took 4 months to shatter those numbers.

    Covid-19 has killed more Americans then every hurricane that has hit the US combined.

    So how, exactly, is it still fear mongering at this point? How, exactly, is not taking it seriously at this point a rational perspective? Covid-19 is different from those examples because it is far less visual. You don't see the mass of coffins usually, you don't see footage on the news of people dying, because they are dying in hospital beds all over the US, one at a time. It is far easier to ignore, but the devastation is still there, it is just spread out.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  13. #19293
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Few points. Low and slow is leagues better than high and never slow. So they are doing better. The US is also still higher than Europe. Now, if you mean the European Union, that is consisting of 44 countries. We are still far higher than them.
    I had no intention of saying that the US is doing great.
    Merely that Europe haven't solved the issue either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Now, as for the statement of not knowing if the numbers will rise again, they already have. Schools are ensuring that. More and more states are starting to skyrocket in cases. According to this chart I found, we are staying near 290k and this week went up to 296k. So we are certainly going back up. Right now, Eruope is actually not at 237k. Europe is at 216k and The European Union is at 139k. So, the numbers you found are a bit off.
    I used the data from WHO, https://covid19.who.int/ where the "Europe" region for historic reasons include former Soviet Union and Israel - since that site can show a nice graph of how the weekly cases are changing per region.

    However, the exact boundaries don't matter - as the relevant part is that it is increasing (although slowly) and that is to a large extent due to EU countries; and the reported numbers are so far from the truth that arguing whether they are 237k 216k is fairly meaningless.

    And the US increase was that it was holding steady at about 294k and then dropped to 290k on Sept 1 back to 296k on Sept 2. That seems like bad averaging due to small changes in reporting time to me - and not any substantial change.

    I'm not denying that the US numbers might increase again - but that isn't the clear evidence.

    Added: And I don't know what you mean with "Now, if you mean the European Union, that is consisting of 44 countries.". EU has 27 member countries at the moment.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-09-03 at 01:58 PM.

  14. #19294
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Lets add some context of exactly what 190,000 people means, so that we can tell if it is "Fear-mongering".

    Lets assume you live to 80 years old. Lets assume you meet and interact with 3 new people a day on average, which is pretty generous for most people. That is about 80,000 people. So this has killed more then twice as many people as you will ever speak to in your life.

    How about a different example: The 2007 Troop surge in Iraq under Obama sent our total Troop numbers in Iraq to 176,000. Imagine if every single one of them died in a six month period. Would it be overreacting to consider that a really big deal?

    How about comparing it to historical big deals? During WWII, an average of 220 Americans died in combat per day. Yesterday over 1,000 Americans died of Covid-19. It peaked at 2,700 per day. It has been over 220 every day since March 24, when it first crossed that number.

    WWI? About 50,000 combat deaths, and about 114,000 total deaths for the US (Mostly disease for the rest). That was about 18 months of war, Covid-19 took 4 months to shatter those numbers.

    Covid-19 has killed more Americans then every hurricane that has hit the US combined.

    So how, exactly, is it still fear mongering at this point? How, exactly, is not taking it seriously at this point a rational perspective? Covid-19 is different from those examples because it is far less visual. You don't see the mass of coffins usually, you don't see footage on the news of people dying, because they are dying in hospital beds all over the US, one at a time. It is far easier to ignore, but the devastation is still there, it is just spread out.
    To be fair, wars usually kill young people (15-40 years old) while covid "mainly" kills the elderly. It should still be fight in a smart way, and the USA did not take it.

  15. #19295
    I am Murloc! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    To be fair, wars usually kill young people (15-40 years old) while covid "mainly" kills the elderly. It should still be fight in a smart way, and the USA did not take it.
    Right, but I consider that even more an argument in favor of taking this seriously. The wars I listed mostly killed Americans who went to fight in that war (Obviously wars tend to be very indiscriminate in killing people in the places that war is being fought, but I am specifically referring to American Soldier deaths here). People whose job it was to endanger themselves, people who could fight back and influence the conflict they were in. Covid kills average Americans, regardless of their participation or lack thereof. You can't be a conscientious objector from Covid. Bone Spurs won't save you. Or spending time in the Texas National Guard or moving to Canada.

    Diseases, by their nature, prey mostly on the most vulnerable parts of our society. You know, the people society is supposed to protect. When society gives a full rejection of its duty to protect its weakest members, then that is a shit society. The entire point of having a society in the first place is to protect people who are at a stage of their life where they cannot fully contribute, either because they are too young or too old. If that is necessary, then society isn't necessary, the strongest people should just take care of themselves.
    "We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine." DJT- Jan 22, 2020
    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done." DJT- Feb 26, 2020
    “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” DJT- Feb 27, 2020

  16. #19296
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Right, but I consider that even more an argument in favor of taking this seriously. The wars I listed mostly killed Americans who went to fight in that war (Obviously wars tend to be very indiscriminate in killing people in the places that war is being fought, but I am specifically referring to American Soldier deaths here). People whose job it was to endanger themselves, people who could fight back and influence the conflict they were in. Covid kills average Americans, regardless of their participation or lack thereof. You can't be a conscientious objector from Covid. Bone Spurs won't save you. Or spending time in the Texas National Guard or moving to Canada.

    Diseases, by their nature, prey mostly on the most vulnerable parts of our society. You know, the people society is supposed to protect. When society gives a full rejection of its duty to protect its weakest members, then that is a shit society. The entire point of having a society in the first place is to protect people who are at a stage of their life where they cannot fully contribute, either because they are too young or too old. If that is necessary, then society isn't necessary, the strongest people should just take care of themselves.
    And I am glad to live in Europe where the Covid was taken seriously by the authorities.

  17. #19297
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    People of Donetsk in general are shifting more and more towards denier stance. We're back to school too. How long would it take for cases to increase, several weeks?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    But... there are over 180000 dead already...
    I understand that your discussion was USA-specific, and for people from USA their opinion on the pandemic is predetermined by their party affiliation, this is a political issue for y'all instead of healthcare related, but Covid is a global issue so I'll reply to this, and to the repeated question "how is this number overhyped?".

    Before I get to the 180k number (190k by now) - Covid is the worst pandemic in 50 years, keep that in mind. Even in the last 100 years, only Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics were worse than Covid. We should take this seriously and act accordingly. You know, masks, distancing, no mass gatherings, only essential travel. All this is annoying but necessary, people die during a pandemic and there's no need to make it worse. Annoying and boring.

    Now 190k deaths. That's approximately how many people die in USA every 2.5 weeks. Spread over 7-8 months, this number means that Covid caused ~10% deaths in USA over this period. This is significant, and as I said, we should take this seriously and act accordingly.

    Overhyped part is when people start comparing the planet to their house and go crazy. 190k is a large number, but did y'all go crazy every 2.5 weeks your whole life? No? Are y'all hypocrites? 190k babies are born every 12 hours on this planet, why aren't y'all celebrating every one of them? Only fearmongering is worthwhile?

    When you talk about huge global numbers, you should only compare them to other huge global numbers, otherwise you're misinterpreting and overhyping them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  18. #19298
    The Insane Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    And it happened:
    https://www.24ur.com/novice/korona/v...-12-otrok.html (use gogle translate)

    5 workers 12 kids got it in a kindergarden. I didnt take even a day .
    *shocked pikachu*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    I understand that your discussion was USA-specific, and for people from USA their opinion on the pandemic is predetermined by their party affiliation, this is a political issue for y'all instead of healthcare related, but Covid is a global issue so I'll reply to this, and to the repeated question "how is this number overhyped?".

    Before I get to the 180k number (190k by now) - Covid is the worst pandemic in 50 years, keep that in mind. Even in the last 100 years, only Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics were worse than Covid. We should take this seriously and act accordingly. You know, masks, distancing, no mass gatherings, only essential travel. All this is annoying but necessary, people die during a pandemic and there's no need to make it worse. Annoying and boring.

    Now 190k deaths. That's approximately how many people die in USA every 2.5 weeks. Spread over 7-8 months, this number means that Covid caused ~10% deaths in USA over this period. This is significant, and as I said, we should take this seriously and act accordingly.

    Overhyped part is when people start comparing the planet to their house and go crazy. 190k is a large number, but did y'all go crazy every 2.5 weeks your whole life? No? Are y'all hypocrites? 190k babies are born every 12 hours on this planet, why aren't y'all celebrating every one of them? Only fearmongering is worthwhile?

    When you talk about huge global numbers, you should only compare them to other huge global numbers, otherwise you're misinterpreting and overhyping them.
    The problem with the absolutist mentality of looking at deaths only is that the number of critically ill and those with long term health problems is greater than those who die.

    The other issue with the "that many people die each X number of days" is that those deaths also don't stop. People still have falls, heart attacks, strokes, etc.

  19. #19299
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    You still on this track?

    Time will tell? So 250,000 excess deaths at least 190k already directly related to COVID is not enough to tell? Huge outbreak, small downward trend and a spike back up to record territory is not enough "time" to tell it was not fearmongering?

    You sound exactly like states of Florida, Texas and most of the south-midwest in April-May. Look where they are now and what has happened in the past few months.
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
    Karma 1 Trump 0 -Feel as bad for trump as trump did for Hillary- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIBw-_0T6I

  20. #19300
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Huge outbreak, small downward trend and a spike back up to record territory is not enough "time" to tell it was not fearmongering?
    The official death toll is at 870k. With all the uncounted excess death, the actual total is likely around 1.2m. That puts COVID within the top 10 or so pandemics by death toll in all of history. And this pandemic isn't over yet.

    The kind of people who shrug off any reasonable amount of precaution or concern as "fearmongering" are not just delusional, but intentionally so and proud of it.

    Ignorance can be solved with education, but willful, boastful stupidity can't be fixed.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

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