1. #19401

    Not to surprising after a summer of this its getting harder to ignore than until the plague is controlled the economy is going continue to be heavily impacted. They are intertwined and trying to focus on one without the other is not tenable.

  2. #19402
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    No pattern. Serious or mild symptoms. As little as 2 months.
    Possibly, but everyone who tries to give more information seems to link to a non-existent pre-print https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3681489 instead of https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3680955

    However as the paper indicates, saying that people can be re-infected could just mean that some don't get long-term immunity, but it could still be that 99.9% or more get long-term immunity. It could also mean that no-one gets long-term immunity - but it seems unlikely.

    If people don't get long-term immunity after an infection it likely also means that vaccines will have the same problems.

  3. #19403
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Possibly, but everyone who tries to give more information seems to link to a non-existent pre-print https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3681489 instead of https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3680955

    However as the paper indicates, saying that people can be re-infected could just mean that some don't get long-term immunity, but it could still be that 99.9% or more get long-term immunity. It could also mean that no-one gets long-term immunity - but it seems unlikely.

    If people don't get long-term immunity after an infection it likely also means that vaccines will have the same problems.
    It's also worth noting that if re-infection was common, we would see a lot more cases of it. There were always bound to be some people who's body just didn't develop lasting immunity. As long as the numbers are extremely small (as they are now) re-infection likely says more about the person's body than it does about the virus itself.

  4. #19404
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...at-cost-public

    German group did some analysis on the Sturges Motorcycle Rally.

    Using an average estimate of $46K spent per positive covid-19 case (many may cost little to nothing, but some may rack up massive bills well over a million) and using cell phone data from non-locals and other data, they pegged the cost to public health systems around $12.2 dollars. That's with 1 dead and 260 cases spread across 11 states so far. As time goes on we're seeing more cases as predicted, and much like the stupid Maine wedding we'll likely be seeing cases from secondary or tertiary contacts who probably have never even been to Sturges before.

  5. #19405
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolthulhu View Post
    I’ve never claimed anything of the sorts. I’m saying that both parties use the same tool differently (i.e. inciting fear or the lack thereof) and the Democrats are picking the more sensible option out of the two. If you’re saying Republicans mismanaged the pandemic you’re preaching to the choir, duh.
    again I was specifically responding to ghostpanthers statement, not yours or anything in general.

    in general politics i agreed with you.
    "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president," - McConnell
    Karma 1 Trump 0 -Feel as bad for trump as trump did for Hillary- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIBw-_0T6I

  6. #19406
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...at-cost-public

    German group did some analysis on the Sturges Motorcycle Rally.

    Using an average estimate of $46K spent per positive covid-19 case (many may cost little to nothing, but some may rack up massive bills well over a million) and using cell phone data from non-locals and other data, they pegged the cost to public health systems around $12.2 dollars.
    You mean $12.2 billion dollars.

  7. #19407
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...at-cost-public

    German group did some analysis on the Sturges Motorcycle Rally.

    Using an average estimate of $46K spent per positive covid-19 case (many may cost little to nothing, but some may rack up massive bills well over a million) and using cell phone data from non-locals and other data, they pegged the cost to public health systems around $12.2 dollars. That's with 1 dead and 260 cases spread across 11 states so far. As time goes on we're seeing more cases as predicted, and much like the stupid Maine wedding we'll likely be seeing cases from secondary or tertiary contacts who probably have never even been to Sturges before.

    Sturgis Motorcycle Rally linked to 20% of US coronavirus cases in August


    Nineteen percent of the 1.4 million new coronavirus cases in the U.S. between Aug. 2 and Sept. 2 can be traced back to the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally held in South Dakota, according to researchers from San Diego State University's Center for Health Economics & Policy Studies.

    That's more than 266,000 coronavirus cases attributed to the 10-day event, which more than 460,000 people attended despite fears it could become a so-called super-spreader event.

    "We conclude that the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generated public health costs of approximately $12.2 billion," the researchers wrote in a paper. "This is enough to have paid each of the estimated 462,182 rally attendees $26,553.64 not to attend."


    Freedoooom!

  8. #19408
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    You mean $12.2 billion dollars.
    *chuckles* I just thought "hey 12 bucks is pretty cheap"

  9. #19409
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Statistically they are more likely to catch it than spread it if they go from mexico to the USA
    I believe the previous statement about illegal immigrants wasn't about the US but somewhere in Eurasia.

    However, Mexico likely has about the same number of cases per population as the US and likely more dead per capita; they just lack the testing capacity.

  10. #19410
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...at-cost-public

    German group did some analysis on the Sturges Motorcycle Rally.

    Using an average estimate of $46K spent per positive covid-19 case (many may cost little to nothing, but some may rack up massive bills well over a million) and using cell phone data from non-locals and other data, they pegged the cost to public health systems around $12.2 dollars. That's with 1 dead and 260 cases spread across 11 states so far. As time goes on we're seeing more cases as predicted, and much like the stupid Maine wedding we'll likely be seeing cases from secondary or tertiary contacts who probably have never even been to Sturges before.
    I read through the study and they listed 7 counties with the most people that went to Sturgis and found they had an increase of 13.5% cases during the Sturgis rally period (August 3 through September 2). One of those counties was Maricopa County, Arizona. This is the data from there: https://phdata.maricopa.gov/Dashboar...se&vo=viewonly. Using the 7 day average, on August 3rd, there were 771 cases, on September 2nd it was down to 278, or a 65% decrease.

    Here's another of those 7 counties, Adams County, Colorado: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/...y/adams-county
    If you notice, they had a large outbreak the last week of July and the numbers have slowly come down from that. It's hard to see how Sturgis caused that when it happened before the rally even began.

    Here's a third, Jefferson County, Colorado: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/...fferson-county.
    It had the same thing as Adams County where there was a spike in the last week of July.

    Here's the fourth county, Weld County, Colorado: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/...ty/Weld-county
    It had a spike the first week of August, ending around August 5th. While Sturgis started pre-events on August 3rd, I doubt that would be the cause of cases in another state that same week since it takes about 5 days for symptoms to shown on average.

    The fifth county is Clark County, Nevada: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/...y/clark-county
    It had a massive spike in mid-July and has slowly been decreasing, with some odd reporting spikes, since then.

    The 6th county is Anoka county, Minnesota: https://usafacts.org/visualizations/...y/anoka-county
    Again, it started increasing significantly in mid-July and has sort of leveled off since then.

    The 7th county they list as Campbell county, Wisconsin, which doesn't seem to exist (there is a town named Campbell but no county).

    None of these counties show any evidence of a 13% increase if you look at the real data and not some models.
    Last edited by Nellise; 2020-09-08 at 07:42 PM.

  11. #19411
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/polit...eet/index.html

    Republican conspiracy theorist running for the House, who won her primary, argues that children should not wear masks -

    Greene claimed that masks are "unhealthy for their psychological, emotional, and educational growth" and "forcing boys to wear masks is emasculating."
    Meanwhile, actual doctors who give a shit about kids -

    Public health officials say masks can help prevent the spread of the virus, which has infected more than 6.3 million people in the US and claimed the lives of about 190,000, according to CNN's latest figures. The CDC recommends that people 2 and older "wear masks in public settings around people who don't live in your household and when you can't stay 6 feet away from others." The CDC acknowledges in its guidance that masks may not be possible in some circumstances that could exacerbate physical or mental conditions.

    More than 513,000 US children have been diagnosed with Covid-19, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Children's Hospital Association. Children represent nearly 10% of all reported cases in the US, according to the groups' report released Tuesday. They found that 70,630 new child cases were reported from August 20 through September 3, a 16% increase in child cases over two weeks.
    Culturally, the US cannot effectively combat a pandemic. These aren't the rantings of a random nobody on Twitter, but for a House candidate that won her primary and has secured the support of the leader of her party and current POTUS. She's in a safe Republican district and will probably win.

    This isn't something that the US isn't capable of. Quite the contrary, the US has repeatedly proven itself capable of amazing achievements requiring great self-sacrifice. No, it's a large part of the country choosing not to participate in a global fight against a pandemic for purely political reasons.

  12. #19412
    I would probably be more upset if this wasn't such a common thing in the US. Yet we wonder why our healthcare cost have gotten so out of hand?

    https://www.propublica.org/article/a...it-cost-10-984
    When Dr. Zachary Sussman went to Physicians Premier ER in Austin for a COVID-19 antibody test, he assumed he would get a freebie because he was a doctor for the chain. Instead, the free-standing emergency room charged his insurance company an astonishing $10,984 for the visit — and got paid every penny, with no pushback.

    The bill left him so dismayed he quit his job. And now, after ProPublica’s questions, the parent company of his insurer said the case is being investigated and could lead to repayment or a referral to law enforcement.

    The case is the latest to show how providers have sometimes charged exorbitant prices for visits for simple and inexpensive COVID-19 tests. ProPublica recently reported how a $175 COVID-19 test resulted in charges of $2,479 at a different free-standing ER in Texas. In that situation, the health plan said the payment for the visit would be reduced and the facility said the family would not receive a bill. In Sussman’s case, the insurer paid it all. But those dollars come from people who pay insurance premiums, and health experts say high prices are a major reason why Americans pay so much for health care.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  13. #19413
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I would probably be more upset if this wasn't such a common thing in the US. Yet we wonder why our healthcare cost have gotten so out of hand?
    That's truly amazing. A fucked up amazing, but amazing nonetheless. And USA, it makes it really, really hard not to bash with every word imaginable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  14. #19414
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    That's truly amazing. A fucked up amazing, but amazing nonetheless. And USA, it makes it really, really hard not to bash with every word imaginable.
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...hospital-bill/

    62 days in the hospital with the virus, $1.1M explanation of benefits from the hospital. Thankfully he has Medicare and they paid the bill (well, US taxpayers did), but holy shit is the explanation of charges bonkers.

    I mean I get it, health care can get expensive as hell and all. But our weird franken-system of shifting around costs left and right so that people pay out the nose for some things, insurance pays out the nose for other things, and sometimes neither pays very much, leads to these kinds of batshit crazy bills.

  15. #19415
    Scarab Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Let's hope this is nothing major...

    The Hill: AstraZeneca vaccine trial paused to investigate 'a potentially unexplained illness'
    One of the leading coronavirus vaccine clinical trials, from AstraZeneca, has been paused to investigate a “potentially unexplained illness” in one of the participants, the company said Tuesday.

    The announcement could lead to a concerning setback to a high-profile coronavirus vaccine clinical trial, though much remains unknown, and it is not clear how much of an impediment the development will be.

    “As part of the ongoing randomised, controlled global trials of the Oxford coronavirus vaccine, our standard review process triggered a pause to vaccination to allow review of safety data,” AstraZeneca said in a statement. “This is a routine action which has to happen whenever there is a potentially unexplained illness in one of the trials, while it is investigated, ensuring we maintain the integrity of the trials.”

    The statement said it is possible the illness in one of the participants in the trial is not even caused by the vaccine. “In large trials illnesses will happen by chance but must be independently reviewed to check this carefully,” the company said. “We are working to expedite the review of the single event to minimise any potential impact on the trial timeline.”

    Stat, which first reported the pause in the trial, reported that the participant who had the “suspected serious adverse reaction” is in the United Kingdom.

    AstraZeneca is one of three companies that have phase three coronavirus vaccine trials ongoing in the United States. Two other trials are being conducted for potential vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna.

    This is the first time any of those three trials have been known to have been paused for a safety investigation.

    The announcement illustrates the importance of a careful vaccine process to check safety and efficacy, and comes on the same day that AstraZeneca, as well as eight other drug companies, issued a rare joint statement pledging to follow the science and avoid politics, amid President Trump floating the idea of a pre-election approval of a vaccine.

    “We will need more information but obviously this is concerning,” tweeted Carlos del Rio, a vaccine expert at Emory University.
    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  16. #19416
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...hospital-bill/

    62 days in the hospital with the virus, $1.1M explanation of benefits from the hospital. Thankfully he has Medicare and they paid the bill (well, US taxpayers did), but holy shit is the explanation of charges bonkers.

    I mean I get it, health care can get expensive as hell and all. But our weird franken-system of shifting around costs left and right so that people pay out the nose for some things, insurance pays out the nose for other things, and sometimes neither pays very much, leads to these kinds of batshit crazy bills.
    Make it stop, make it stooop!
    Well, as long as said taxpayers are convinced that this is fine, not much will change. I mean I understand that 62 days in hospital will cost more than couple hundred bucks, but a million is a different story. It is not like they transplanted his heart, lungs, kidneys and liver, but mostly kept him on life support pumping oxygen/drugs and probably with someone always near him.

    I think I said it before, but I am not sure if the pandemic will actually change much regarding healthcare systems in USA (and elsewhere, let's be fair), even as their shortcomings and failings are now shown so clearly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  17. #19417
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Hard to say, but it is why they have clinical trials. A good reason why we shouldn't rush human trials.The adverse affects can sometimes be just as bad, and could even worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In other Covid-19 Karma News. Not that I would actually wish a deadly disease on anyone, and not that I'd lose any sleep over such a homophobic religious leader receiving such Karma.

    Church Leader Who Blamed Coronavirus on Gay Marriage Contracts COVID-19
    A leading church figure in Ukraine who previously described the coronavirus outbreak as "God's punishment" against gay marriage has contracted COVID-19.

    Patriarch Filaret, leader of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kyiv Patriarchate, is in a stable condition in hospital after it was announced on September 4 that he had contracted the virus.

    "We inform you that His Holiness Patriarch Filaret of Kyiv and All Rus-Ukraine tested positive for COVID-19 during planned testing," the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kyiv Patriarchate said in a statement.

    "Now His Holiness Patriarch is undergoing treatment at a hospital. The Patriarch's state of health is satisfactory. We ask for holy prayers for the health and recovery of Patriarch Filaret."

    Speaking during an interview with Ukrainian national TV network Channel 4, Filaret said the outbreak was "God's punishment for the sins of men, the sinfulness of humanity."

    "First of all, I mean same-sex marriage," he added.

    The comments were criticized as "dangerous" by Amnesty International Ukraine in a country which has seen widespread homophobic attacks and where same-sex unions are not legally recognized.
    Last edited by Jettisawn; 2020-09-09 at 07:40 AM.
    Voter shamming is terrible and shows you have no faith in the Democratic process. Don't do it.

  18. #19418
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    This is why I have been saying for awhile that we absolutely, cannot rush this. We could create something far worse in people if we just push an untested drug out. Its why anyone with a brain should flat out say no to any vaccine that they attempt to give someone for this. Until we can fully test it and ensure its 100% safe and will not create something worse, they shouldn't be doing human trials. I get this is serious and we need a way to slow this pandemic, but potentially killing Millions with an untested vaccine is not the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  19. #19419
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Hard to say, but it is why they have clinical trials. A good reason why we shouldn't rush human trials.The adverse affects can sometimes be just as bad, and could even worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In other Covid-19 Karma News. Not that I would actually with a deadly disease on anyone, and not that I'd lose any sleep over such a homophobic religious leader receiving such Karma.

    Church Leader Who Blamed Coronavirus on Gay Marriage Contracts COVID-19
    It is also why NO ONE should trust Trump trying to rush any vaccine before the election so he can try to win the election. They will just end up with some bad side effects, because most vaccines take a long ass time to approve one.

  20. #19420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    This is why I have been saying for awhile that we absolutely, cannot rush this. We could create something far worse in people if we just push an untested drug out. Its why anyone with a brain should flat out say no to any vaccine that they attempt to give someone for this. Until we can fully test it and ensure its 100% safe and will not create something worse, they shouldn't be doing human trials. I get this is serious and we need a way to slow this pandemic, but potentially killing Millions with an untested vaccine is not the way.
    You.... realize that human trials are a part of 'fully test it and ensure it's 100% safe' right? Testing on non-humans can only get you so far, even the closest of animals to us are NOT us, and sometimes those differences matter quite a bit. It is not possible to be 100% certain that it is safe for humans without a human taking it.

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