1. #19601
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Bull.
    High Quality Scientific Evidence shows differently.
    Thank you. Interesting stuff.

    I'm a sucker for graphical representations.


    So if I interpret that correctly, their model states that if the mask is 60% effective and 60% of the population wear them, R0 would already be clobbered down to a harmless 1.
    Add contact tracing to that and C19 should pose no further significant threat.
    Interesting tidbit: it's pretty useless to make a fuss about a few folks who cannot wear masks due to medical reasons. according to this model: they would not impact the efficacy of a mask mandate in any meaningful way, since they are a small part of the population.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    but when it comes to "science" experts, suddenly there's some kind of nonsense global conspiracy and those evil experts can't be trusted. SMH
    Probably because people fear what they do not understand.
    We, who look at such scientific data and can make sense of it (at least in parts, I am not an expert either) are a minority.

    Also, keep in mind there are scientists who provide opposing views as well, further confusing the masses. On top of that, sadly, there are political and financial interests involved and bad scientists/greedy corporate people used situations like this before.

    I can scarcely imagine how frightening the world must be w/o scientific understanding. How vulnerable one is to be mislead.

  2. #19602
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    it's pretty useless to make a fuss about a few folks who cannot wear masks due to medical reasons.
    since they are a small part of the population.
    2020
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-10-02 at 07:34 PM.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." - Roger Stone (Trump's Friend, Ally, and Campaign Advisor)

  3. #19603
    WHO has obviously read that article, and still reached that conclusion.

    It's not odd that they reached that conclusion as it literally says that the study was under-powered, with n=4; and the relevant part is speculation if that is replicated.

    WHAT IS MORE IS THAT THE FREAKING ARTICLE IS RETRACTED

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32251511/
    We had not fully recognized the concept of limit of detection (LOD) of the in-house reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction used in the study (2.63 log copies/mL), and we regret our failure to express the values below LOD as “<LOD (value).” The LOD is a statistical measure of the lowest quantity of the analyte that can be distinguished from the absence of that analyte. Therefore, values below the LOD are unreliable and our findings are uninterpretable. Reader comments raised this issue after publication. We proposed correcting the reported data with new experimental data from additional patients, but the editors requested retraction.

  4. #19604
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    2020
    Ah... well if you consider Trump fanboyism as a medical reason I can see why you'd have a problem.

    Here I am often the only one in the bus that doesn't wear a mask. I do stay away from others and do not cough or talk though.

  5. #19605
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Ah... well if you consider Trump fanboyism as a medical reason I can see why you'd have a problem.
    Primarily they are way too many and way too densely packed.

    But you can see that they are "pro-life" and that the pale Black-haired woman has sign with "Black Voices for Trump".

  6. #19606
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    WHAT IS MORE IS THAT THE FREAKING ARTICLE IS RETRACTED
    The Studies may not provide Empirical Evidence, but there's more then enough Observational Evidence that the WHO recommends mask wearing.

    Fair enough, however this one isn't.

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...aff.2020.00818

    And neither is this.
    There are too many Statistics to post just look at the link yourself,


    it's not formally peer reviewed but it was published in good faith, by the British Academy, there's much more evidence that says Masks are Useful, even the WHO recommends them now.
    https://royalsociety.org/-/media/pol...D93BBCBFC2BB24

    And neither is this

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_June_15_2020
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-10-02 at 08:37 PM.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." - Roger Stone (Trump's Friend, Ally, and Campaign Advisor)

  7. #19607
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What? The only thing there that supports the post is that people may get a false sense of security and be dumb. Nothing beyond that supports it, and everything still encourages face coverings as part of a comprehensive strategy, specifically non-fabric ones that provide a better barrier.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which still affords more protection to those around you than not wearing one at all. That people may have their grubby fingers everywhere isn't a fault of the mask, but the person.

    Don't get me wrong, folks should be washing/replacing masks. But wearing a mask for a few days and being vigilant about not touching your face and then other surfaces without sanitizing your hands is preferable to wearing no mask at all.
    my point is he's not wrong that people are lazy when it comes to replacing/washing masks.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  8. #19608
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    my point is he's not wrong that people are lazy when it comes to replacing/washing masks.
    Sure, but that's not a fault of the mask but a fault of the user.

  9. #19609
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Fair enough, however this one isn't.
    I lost which of the ones you posted first, but:

    Note that the first two authors are eye-doctors, so it doesn't seem to be their speciality.

    Consider these two statements based on the study:
    High-mortality countries have higher GDP than low-mortality countries.
    High-mortality countries did more tests per capita than low-mortality countries (1 in 81 vs 1 in 575).

    The first can be explained by a number of other reasons, including that many poor countries don't count all the dead. (Or as they write "One limitation of our study is that the ultimate source of mortality data is often from governments which may not have the resources to provide a full accounting of their public health crises, or an interest in doing so." )

    The second can partially be explained in the same way and partially that you need more tests if you have higher rates of infections; there's no reason to test if there are no infections; i.e. correlation is not causation.

    Additionally countries where people follow what the government says for masks may also have people follow other things the government says.

    And I'm sure that WHO has read them. (And an English study complaining that WHO gives inconsistent advice is laughable at best.)

    That study from the end of June indicated that people in the UK were skeptical of masks, and didn't wear them - and repeatedly contrasted that with Spain and Italy where people were less skeptical and wore them; where Spain and Italy were similar.

    We have now seen that Spain and the UK have had outbreaks, but not Italy to a similar extent. That indicates that their focus on mask-wearing missed something important.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-10-03 at 06:38 AM.

  10. #19610
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Additionally countries where people follow what the government says for masks may also have people follow other things the government says.


    You didn't seem to look at the entire study from the Health Economics Professor with a PHD.


    And I'm sure that WHO has read them. (And an English study complaining that WHO gives inconsistent advice is laughable at best.)
    The WHO has given some inconsistent messaging on Mask wearing, The British Academy is still a good source for Scientific Studies.


    The second can partially be explained in the same way and partially that you need more tests if you have higher rates of infections; there's no reason to test if there are no infections; i.e. correlation is not causation.
    -You seem like you're grasping straws, The Studies Provided have already Factored Testing into their Studies.

    -Plenty of independent Peer Reviewed Scientific Studies from respective countries that have done studies on Masks also show the effectiveness of wearing them.

    -There is also just a basic common scientific understanding (which you seem to ignoring) that the method of infection of the Virus is through droplets and Masks have shown to block them, it's not hard to prove or replicate these studies.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-10-02 at 09:35 PM.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." - Roger Stone (Trump's Friend, Ally, and Campaign Advisor)

  11. #19611
    https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/sta...38796721348608

    And Trump's headed to Walter Reed for treatment. Between the language mirroring what we saw after Boris Johnson and Herman Caine got the virus and the fact that he's already going to the hospital, this is not good news.

  12. #19612
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    The WHO has given some inconsistent messaging on Mask wearing,
    Their consistent message has been to use physical distancing and wash hands; since there is good evidence for that.

    People have hoped for various wonder-solutions, but WHO haven't given us that - magic bullets rarely exist.

    So, yes:
    -You seem like you're grasping straws, The Studies Provided have already Factored Testing into their Studies.

  13. #19613
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    People have hoped for various wonder-solutions, but WHO haven't given us that - magic bullets rarely exist.
    None of the studies have suggested it was a magical bullet, there is still enough Evidence to suggest Mask Wearing is effective in reducing transmission, it definitely should not be the only policy or precaution in place if you want to reduce the spread of infections.
    Last edited by szechuan; 2020-10-02 at 10:01 PM.
    Americans are the Chinese of the west. The main reason people tolerate them is because they are too big to ignore.

    "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." - Roger Stone (Trump's Friend, Ally, and Campaign Advisor)

  14. #19614
    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    None of the studies have suggested it was a magical bullet, there is still enough Evidence to suggest Mask Wearing is effective,
    The studies haven't suggested that it's a magical bullet - but people have.

    The basics remains:
    It may stop the spread if people are too close together.

    If you practice physical distancing you aren't close together.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-10-02 at 10:31 PM.

  15. #19615
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinfoy Lat View Post
    The election goes forward on nov 3. That's set in the constitution.
    No it isn't. That falls to state legislatures, with Congress having an override.

    The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing [sic] Senators.
    And Congress used that power to set the national election day as "The Tuesday next after the 1st Monday in November", which happens to be the 3rd this year.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/2/7

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  16. #19616
    https://thehill.com/changing-america...-antibody-drug

    Huh, wonder why Trump is taking the Hydroxychloroquine that he spent so many months promoting.

    I mean, he took a regimen of the drug back in May, wonder why it didn't protect him?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ne/5253492002/

  17. #19617
    Honestly, I sympathize a ton with all the people cheering and hoping for Trump's demise. Fox News is bemoaning these people and the other networks for even DARING to talk about it, but if Biden had got Covid Fox would have on "priests" every hour saying God was punishing Joe. 200,000+ dead Americans and for months Trump and Fox News dismissed every fucking basic thing that could have been done to slow or stop the spread. 200,000+ dead Americans and Fox News claimed the lock downs were a democratic hoax to tank the economy to get Biden elected. So fuck them, fuck Trump, fuck Melania, fuck Fox viewers, fuck Trump supporters. Good thing Trump's medical record showed he is in the fittest of possible conditions for his age so he should have nothing to worry about. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Cheer on Trump haters. Cheer on!
    [Infraction]
    Last edited by Rozz; 2020-10-03 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Trolling

  18. #19618
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/sta...38796721348608

    And Trump's headed to Walter Reed for treatment. Between the language mirroring what we saw after Boris Johnson and Herman Caine got the virus and the fact that he's already going to the hospital, this is not good news.
    Most likely they are just not risking it and avoiding wasting time later, he is the POTUS after all and all risks have to be mitigated, therefore it is better to sit at the hospital.
    I would like to have him meet ventilator, though - it might finally make him say a bit less bullshit afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    fuck Melania
    Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  19. #19619
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Woods View Post
    Honestly, I sympathize a ton with all the people cheering and hoping for Trump's demise. Fox News is bemoaning these people and the other networks for even DARING to talk about it, but if Biden had got Covid Fox would have on "priests" every hour saying God was punishing Joe. 200,000+ dead Americans and for months Trump and Fox News dismissed every fucking basic thing that could have been done to slow or stop the spread.
    This is really only a reason to sympathize with people frustrated at hypocrisy and the failure of the administration, not join in with them. The rest of this is like a crazed blood-frenzy.

  20. #19620
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    This is really only a reason to sympathize with people frustrated at hypocrisy and the failure of the administration, not join in with them. The rest of this is like a crazed blood-frenzy.
    According to Donald Trump it is nothing 99 percent of the time. I don't understand why the right is freaking out they have spent months dismissing the virus as people died. They should be laughing at libs getting hopeful over a fake hoax.

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