Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Onikaroshi]

Let us know when someone you care bout dies from the virus and tell us how it was worth it because the majority didn't suffer for a few weeks.

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More less inconvenient than being dead?

Living on the street is basically a death sentence in some areas. It also behooves the gov't to make sure people are paid, social systems are already overloaded, they can't handle millions more homeless

And I'd rather be dead than homeless

[formerShandalay]

I'd have to qoute everyone, but herd immunity is only practised by the UK and the Netherlands, and does *NOT* work.

Herd immunity as it is at the moment seemingly encouraged in the UK is not supported anywhere else, because as far as I know they are going with the 'let it spread as fast as it can'-route. From what I said before, I don't think I have to say again what I think about that... >:/

Germany is going the 'make it spread as slowly as we can make it'-route, but also emphasized it cannot be stopped.

The problem with lots of people invoking the "herd immunity" is that they make it seem like this is something that just comes from nothing in a matter of weeks. But there's some diseases where it takes generations and the first generation to contract any given disease is always hit hardest. We are that generation in the case of this disease, all of those that live today. So all we can do is make it go as mildly as we can by being as careful as we can and trying to give our healthcare as much time as we can, so as many people as possible can survive. And as many people as possible can survive without long term damages as well.

[TrollHunter3000]

Not money, mine, and others, ability to afford their homes. Even after this is all said and done we still have to live

Kinda hard to live when you're dead mr 2000 IQ

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

Are you sure? Open Wikipedia and take a look at this:
Latvia - 34.3/km2
Estonia - 28/km2
Lithuania - 43/km2
vs
Germany - 232/km2
Even China - 145/km2
Also, the simple fact that for small countries it is harder to absorb more cases.

Your local population density duhh... Population density of any city in the world is roughly the same. Assuming you live in a city, you dont have fewer people within a 100m radius than any city dweller in Germany.

[TrollHunter3000]

If you're so worried about go live out on the street with no roof over your head and no food to eat, it'll be even worse if things go south because all the overloaded homeless systems will becoming even more overloaded.

Me, is rather just be dead

Then do us a favor and kill yourself rather than risk spreading the virus and taking that choice away from other people. Thanks.

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Right. Which is exactly why I said there are ways you can take preventative measures without threatening the livelyhood of people who literally live paycheck to paycheck.

On another note though, how many people you think might die prematurely from the of stress related to not being able to feed themselves or their family? Not being able to pay their rent? How much do you think crime will increase with a percentage or people seeing no other viable option to get what they need? You simply cannot pretend like an over-reaction is not without its consequences either.

Except it's not an over-reaction. Yes there are consequences but being dead is worse than not being dead in almost all cases. It's not like anyone here is arguing that the government shouldn't step in an provide aid to those impacted financially. In fact, that's what they've done in the past with stimulus packages and will likely consider that an option as well.

[Shadowferal]

Then do us a favor and kill yourself rather than risk spreading the virus and taking that choice away from other people. Thanks.

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Except it's not an over-reaction. Yes there are consequences but being dead is worse than not being dead in almost all cases. It's not like anyone here is arguing that the government shouldn't step in an provide aid to those impacted financially. In fact, that's what they've done in the past with stimulus packages and will likely consider that an option as well.

Stop pretending you actually care.

[Gaidax]

I'd have to qoute everyone, but herd immunity is only practised by the UK and the Netherlands, and does *NOT* work.

Not in the way those 2 want.. Only way is getting vaccines, and we all know its atleast 6-18months out.

That detail is why they consider doing this thing.

Believe it or not, it's not like you have a bunch of retard politicians deciding there only.

There are several viable paths:

• One is to wait for vaccine and hope to discover effective treatment for severe cases by then while trying to stall and slow the spread. The issue here is that in worst case scenario if no treatment is found in coming X months - the lockdown measures will ruin economies and livelihoods of many people. So it's sort of a gamble here.
• Another scenario with "herd immunity" is to spread this shit in a controlled fashion to not destroy healthcare system, but to immunize population relatively fast and ensure you get over this in specific time frame. The gamble here is the "controlled" part, as in everything goes as planned and of course it's more dangerous.

Neither option is ideal - both pessimistic cases are equally devastating. First option is safer but no estimate, while second option comes with estimates.

In perfect world medical-only approach, first option is the one to go for. But people also have other needs too.

[TrollHunter3000]

If you're living paycheck to paycheck, it's not all the govt's fault. That's just how poverty works. If you can't go a month without pay or a job, then you shouldn't have a mortgage. If you can't go a month without a job, then anything means hardship. If your bank account is so low that a month matters, then you should have also started a backup plan before, war, famine, a dui, a layoff, or coronavirus comes along.

Yeah guys you shoulda just worked 100 hours a week so you can afford to buy some bootstraps and pull them up.

[Easo]

Your local population density duhh... Population density of any city in the world is roughly the same. Assuming you live in a city, you dont have fewer people within a 100m radius than any city dweller in Germany.

Even then Berlin has more than twice the density of Riga, plus the shit has spread outside of capitals too, where you have cities of few thousand people at most.
As I said before, I am more woried about Russia. We are just a few million in Baltics, they have 145. It will not end nicely.

[Thekri]

I don't see the cases doubling every day.
It varies a lot, but perhaps 10% increase a day and doubling every week - which would mean it peaks in about 3 months (unless stopped earlier by warmer weather in the northern hemisphere causing it to return during autumn).

Probably lower then 100% per day, but certainly higher then 10%. Italy got 20,000+ cases in 5 weeks. They started with 2. You can't do that only doubling every week, you would have only 64 cases if it was only doubling once a week. On the other hand if it was doubling every day, they would have 35.18 Trillion cases, which is a fair bit more then the population of Italy.

So since the number of actual cases is somewhere between 64 and 35 Trillion, we can conclude it is spreading in between those two numbers. Probably 30-40% per day seems about right, since this is a very contagious disease, and it only takes rather brief contact to potentially infect someone else.

[Shadowferal]

There are several viable paths:

• One is to wait for vaccine and hope to discover effective treatment for severe cases by then while trying to stall and slow the spread. The issue here is that in worst case scenario if no treatment is found in coming X months - the lockdown measures will ruin economies and livelihoods of many people. So it's sort of a gamble here.
• Another scenario with "herd immunity" is to spread this shit in a controlled fashion to not destroy healthcare system, but to immunize population relatively fast and ensure you get over this in specific time frame. The gamble here is the "controlled" part, as in everything goes as planned and of course it's more dangerous.

Neither option is ideal - both pessimistic cases are equally devastating. First option is safer but no estimate, while second option comes with estimates. In perfect world medical-only approach, first option is the one to go for. But people also have other needs too.

...sounds familiar;

I have to wonder if one way to treat this is to deliberately infect those that can fight this off...I mean under control by medical staff this can be beaten.

[Khaza-R]

Let us know when someone you care bout dies from the virus and tell us how it was worth it because the majority didn't suffer for a few weeks.

A few weeks? The global recession is already here. Just how staggering it is going to be awaits to be seen. Controlling the virus is absolutely important, and so is controlling fear and confidence. Either way, the worst of it has yet to come and will last for months and longer still each day businesses are interrupted. .

Anticipate that many people in the US will lose their jobs, their retirement savings, their access to healthcare if they have any to begin with. Its not just a mere inconvenience. If we are moving toward mandated quarantine and business closures then we need prepare for equally drastic steps who protect those people who are most vulnerable. Cash payouts to each American every month is a good start. Thankfully its an idea that's gaining some traction.

[TrollHunter3000]

Living on the street is basically a death sentence in some areas. It also behooves the gov't to make sure people are paid, social systems are already overloaded, they can't handle millions more homeless

And I'd rather be dead than homeless

No where in the US is being homeless anywhere near a death sentence. Get your head out of your ass.

[Gaidax]

So your solution is to do nothing until vaccines are available?

What the hell is wrong with some people?

It's not black and white, things are being done.

Best lead so far is that various medicines that treat specific infections like Malaria seem to be at least somewhat effective against Corona as well. If a decent medicine is found, it will be possible to considerably reduce mortality and complications rates, after all - for vast majority of population this virus is not very dangerous, so if we can treat the relatively few severe cases - we're golden already.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

Even then Berlin has more than twice the density of Riga, plus the shit has spread outside of capitals too, where you have cities of few thousand people at most.
As I said before, I am more woried about Russia. We are just a few million in Baltics, they have 145. It will not end nicely.

You should be more worried about India and the likes, they have a massive population and only reported 129. They probably just dont bother testing much, and theyll end up with many millions soon.

[TrollHunter3000]

I don't see the cases doubling every day.
It varies a lot, but perhaps 10% increase a day and doubling every week - which would mean it peaks in about 3 months (unless stopped earlier by warmer weather in the northern hemisphere causing it to return during autumn).

It's already doubling every 3 days. So.

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Stop pretending you actually care.

Who the fuck are you?

[Gaidax]

...sounds familiar;

It's not like it's rocket science, the issue is the "under control" part.

Besides, it's still not clear whether this immunity is permanent or temporary.

[Easo]

You should be more worried about India and the likes, they have a massive population and only reported 129. They probably just dont bother testing much, and theyll end up with many millions soon.

Yeah, let's add India plus Pakistan to the list... This is not gonna end well at all. China might have another outbreak too, but this time they do have the experience to quickly cut it.

[Rogue Karl]

Is kinda nice to see countries enforcing their borders again though... so silver lining?

[Forogil]

Herd immunity as it is at the moment seemingly encouraged in the UK is not supported anywhere else, because as far as I know they are going with the 'let it spread as fast as it can'-route.

They are not.

The more correct statement is that they are not going for maximum slow-down now, they are waiting with that until they it gets worse. We will be able to see if it worked at the end of year or a bit later, but they do have people in charge with experience - and the guts to largely follow that instead of just panicking.