1. #13841
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Unless i am mistake unlike the flu what was used initially as an example to form policies and measures around is that corona virus is not really as easily carried by younger kids to the point experts are saying it might be okay to let small kids back with their grand parents as they are not the carriers they expected them to be.
    I have also seen that idea - but I think the jury is still out on that.
    And even for flu-like diseases there are many that consider school closures fairly ineffective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    A large problem with schools being closed though is lack of daycare for working parents, the added stress parents get from trying to juggle their daily tasks and help them with their school work, as here despite schools being closed they still get assignments online.
    True, this is especially a problem for health care workers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    The biggest issue is probably no final exams considering the school year is almost at its end and how that is going to be tackled. Can't let everyone just pass that year or flunk them.
    I expect that there will be a lot of cheating in many cases due to new procedures.

  2. #13842
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    I wonder if that is why we gave unemployment to those that lost jobs due to covid-19. NAh..... That can't be the reason......
    Because unemployment is magic money right. Are you all serious here? You're not asking where the money is coming from and when you'll have to pay for it?

  3. #13843
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    You are correct, I'm not from the US.

    Doesn't change that if you enter government building masked, openly carrying a rifle and not clearly displaying a badge identifying you as a law enforcement official, you should be rightly shot dead on the spot. And if not shot dead right then and there, charged with attempted terrorist attack, and forever lose your ability to purchase and possess any kind of firearm.
    gun nuts, if you really want to know all about them go read the gun control thread in this forum.
    that will explain why they do the things they do.

    Nothing like Armed Intimidation to try and force your beliefs on others. Used to get you arrested in this country.

    Guess next time you have a court case against someone you can just sit outside their house and "protest" with a big honking weapon and 11 of your armed friends.


    it was a great move by the governor.
    Basically she just ignored them which always pisses kids off and made their testicles just that much smaller. However they should have been arrested but whom can trust these unstable nuts to not start popping off trying to stop the "tyranny" of the governor under their rights of the 2A!!!
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  4. #13844
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by announced View Post
    Source for that?
    Source? Anders Tegnell himself.

    Sweden's Coronavirus Death Rate Nearly Twice That of U.S. as Trump Says Country 'Paying Heavily' For Not Having Lockdown
    "At least 50 percent of our death toll is within elderly homes and we have a hard time understanding how a lockdown would stop the introduction of disease," Anders Tegnell, the chief state epidemiologist at Sweden's public health agency, told the BBC's Radio Four's Today program last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    A few weeks later my first "highly doubtful" idea is now supported by nextstrain; painting a branch red for the US where it previously was seen as being in France.
    Fair enough. I never really doubted that the virus could have traveled back and forth a few times. I mainly disagreed with the idea that it didn't come through Belgium and France originally, which I thought at the time was the point you were trying to make. Normally, that kind of back and forth movement would be hard to believe, but I guess with air travel what it is, it's not actually all that unfeasible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    My point is, it is not the worse this country has faced in terms of a pandemic and there is no reason why some parts of the country can start to reopen.
    No, this pandemic is worse than anything the US has faced since the H1N1 flu pandemic of 1918. You're equating the deathtoll now, when it's just starting, with the final multiple-year total of other flu pandemics in which lockdowns didn't occur. Had we followed the same non-lockdown policies of the '57 and '68 flu pandemics, then COVID-19 would have killed far, far more than either one of those pandemics already. And, again, it's just starting.

    Realistically, COVID-19 will probably end up killing far more people than the Spanish Flu over the next couple years.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    And yes, this flu will not be the last one to hit us and we have learned some important things about how to combat the next wave.
    It should be repeated as many times as it takes: This is not a flu.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  5. #13845
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryDD View Post
    Because unemployment is magic money right. Are you all serious here? You're not asking where the money is coming from and when you'll have to pay for it?
    It is only magic money if you don't understand how governments make money and why governments can function with debt. In short if the interest rate is lower than the actual growth of a nation as the money owed by the nation does not matter as the economy of said nation continues to grow, so it actually an investment. It is why in the EU nations can loan for the corona crisis at a very low rate if they would need to.

    In nations like the US not giving out unemployment checks is bad for their economy, as people who don't have money can't spend money, no money being spend, no products or services being consumed, both of those dropping means the economy starts plummeting and it's a vicious cycle where less goods and services are needed less work will be available and there for less jobs.

    Obviously it is all a tad more complicated than that but those are the big lines, in short if you want a depression instead of a recession you want to stop sending unemployment checks and aid companies in this crisis.

  6. #13846
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    The thing is, you can't keep them closed for months and years to come.

    I mean, what do you propose? Let's say vaccine will be ready and available early next year, what then? Whole year without school? Where will kids be while parents are working?

    We will have to take these risks, slowly and surely things will open up, because this situation is untenable. It's good we did lockdowns and restriction and I bet we will have varying degrees of these restrictions for a whole year, but at some point you just can't keep this up like that. You can't have schools closed for a year.

    I mean, this all depends on the situation, but really now - we're a country of 9 million and so far we had 227 dead total for 16k identified cases and we're nowhere near collapsing here or what not. At this point yes, it's time for some cruel math - how many will potentially die if X reopens. Can't keep everything under lock and key if stakes are not high enough yet.

    Nobody's gonna go full Sweden here, but this can't continue like this either.
    I think it's all in the testing and watching the data no one wants to be Sweden or the US at this point. If the data says it's safe then probably is as long as the government in on top of things it should be all right.

  7. #13847
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    I have also seen that idea - but I think the jury is still out on that.
    And even for flu-like diseases there are many that consider school closures fairly ineffective.


    True, this is especially a problem for health care workers.


    I expect that there will be a lot of cheating in many cases due to new procedures.
    Epidemiologists seem fairly convinced that they aren't that great of a risk as a carrier to the point they don't believe that they form that much of a risk to older school staff members. Got no study by hand to back that claim up however.

    I think it is a problem for a lot of families, originally daycare here was asked to prioritize for healthcare workers though.

    I always feel kinda sorry for those that cheat as not understanding what you learned can always come back and bite you in the ass. Not sure how much things are changing, Germany just held their exams and applied physical distancing rules.

  8. #13848
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    It is only magic money if you don't understand how governments make money and why governments can function with debt. In short if the interest rate is lower than the actual growth of a nation as the money owed by the nation does not matter as the economy of said nation continues to grow, so it actually an investment. It is why in the EU nations can loan for the corona crisis at a very low rate if they would need to.

    In nations like the US not giving out unemployment checks is bad for their economy, as people who don't have money can't spend money, no money being spend, no products or services being consumed, both of those dropping means the economy starts plummeting and it's a vicious cycle where less goods and services are needed less work will be available and there for less jobs.

    Obviously it is all a tad more complicated than that but those are the big lines, in short if you want a depression instead of a recession you want to stop sending unemployment checks and aid companies in this crisis.
    The problem here is that if the US are going down, it doesn't matter how the EU will deal with, because we will be next, just a number, 1929.

  9. #13849
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    Hm from 1.st april to 1.st may 1095 people are considered healed. 94 died. (1439 infected in total)

    Still 250 carriers (60 are in hospital).

    7.90% death rate.

    Not sure if its a good idea to open shops and stuff here right now. Heck even religios groups want to open their stuff.

  10. #13850
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    The problem here is that if the US are going down, it doesn't matter how the EU will deal with, because we will be next, just a number, 1929.
    The issue in the US is not the US going down, Corporate America appears to have enough lifeboats and if not the government will bail them out gladly especially the current one. It is the worker class that will hurt from it.

    And obviously in today's world big economic regions have an impact on each other, if the EU were to go down the US would also feel that significantly. However both can to a point safeguard themselves, so it does matter how something is handled.

  11. #13851
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    Hm from 1.st april to 1.st may 1095 people are considered healed. 94 died. (1439 infected in total)

    Still 250 carriers (60 are in hospital).

    7.90% death rate.

    Not sure if its a good idea to open shops and stuff here right now. Heck even religios groups want to open their stuff.
    Lol, you sure know how to count because that's not how this works. You forgot to factor the whole population.

  12. #13852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No.
    This is why I never accept arguments from those that don't live here regarding American society. Because you just don't understand and you never will.
    First and foremost...de-escalation. You have an armed population, some of which are likely in favor of the protesters, and that includes the very police that you fantasize will blindly follow orders. Think again. If I recall there are whole regions where law enforcement has refused to enforce lockdowns. And I'm certain this has in part played into decisions to reopen parts of many states. (And I'm looking at PA as another fine example) Politicians need to encourage the thought that everything is going accordingly...and it's all under control.
    You don't need to be American to understand a few things though.
    The image is chilling, i'm not even sure how the fuck the rifles these guys are possessing are sold to general public.

    You are fubar as a nation, you will never manage to disarm them, you are literally sitting on a time ticking bomd.

  13. #13853
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    The issue in the US is not the US going down, Corporate America appears to have enough lifeboats and if not the government will bail them out gladly especially the current one. It is the worker class that will hurt from it.
    More unemployed people means less product demand, with less demand small companies will start falling... I could keep typing, its a stupid snowball effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    And obviously in today's world big economic regions have an impact on each other, if the EU were to go down the US would also feel that significantly. However both can to a point safeguard themselves, so it does matter how something is handled.
    The EU already has those measures, but in the US is basicly everyman for himself, yes, big companies will have governement support, but other won't.

    I still see hoppe, bothe to the US and the EU. During the XIV century plague event, most countries managed to find solutions. The solution to this might be bringging the production of products from China back to the EU/US, and with the current whinning for China, i'm actually seeing that happening.

  14. #13854
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryDD View Post
    Because unemployment is magic money right. Are you all serious here? You're not asking where the money is coming from and when you'll have to pay for it?
    its that or let your population die of starvation and cripple your economy as a result.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  15. #13855
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    The issue in the US is not the US going down, Corporate America appears to have enough lifeboats and if not the government will bail them out gladly especially the current one. It is the worker class that will hurt from it.

    And obviously in today's world big economic regions have an impact on each other, if the EU were to go down the US would also feel that significantly. However both can to a point safeguard themselves, so it does matter how something is handled.
    What I really really question is how rating agencies have the guts to downrate countries like Italy and make their life harder while the US seems to be able to just throw money out the window without any repercussions or fear of downgrading.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  16. #13856
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    More unemployed people means less product demand, with less demand small companies will start falling... I could keep typing, its a stupid snowball effect.


    The EU already has those measures, but in the US is basicly everyman for himself, yes, big companies will have governement support, but other won't.

    I still see hoppe, bothe to the US and the EU. During the XIV century plague event, most countries managed to find solutions. The solution to this might be bringging the production of products from China back to the EU/US, and with the current whinning for China, i'm actually seeing that happening.
    Of course as consumption shrinks so will the economy and i do have concern for small businesses in the US, a group often talked about come elections but often left to fend for themselves in my opinion. Another thing to keep in mind is that when looking at the US you need to adjust your predictions per state, some states do support their citizens more than others. This is especially true how divided the nation is and how much of a mess the relationship between states and the federal government is right now.

    I would always have hope, being fatalistic serves nobody in my opinion. I will say bringing the production back won't be done, companies invested over there and penalizing companies there for goods they want to import here well, we all know how great that last trump trade war turned out. Strategic important products will resurface here or in the region at least as i am a big support of not falling back on blind nationalism and protectionism but for working out a plan or project that supports the whole of Europe.

    There are also opportunities to be had here for the multinational projects if done on an EU level means too much red tape and diplomacy. In theory infrastructure permitting you could raise manufacturing companies in certain regions that are highly dependent on sectors like tourism for these strategic supplies, no idea how realistic that is however.

  17. #13857
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    I always feel kinda sorry for those that cheat as not understanding what you learned can always come back and bite you in the ass. Not sure how much things are changing, Germany just held their exams and applied physical distancing rules.
    Sitting too close together during an exam is weird; regardless of any virus.

    However, many universities (and assumedly schools) have switch to home exams, which take more care to do right to avoid cheating - and I'm sure there are other changes as well that can cause new unexpected problems.

  18. #13858
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    What I really really question is how rating agencies have the guts to downrate countries like Italy and make their life harder while the US seems to be able to just throw money out the window without any repercussions or fear of downgrading.
    Rating agencies are paid for their services, people over value what they are worth. I mean we all learned in 2008 how reliable they were.

    For Italy it was expected, why it is being done now for just one nation and all others not the just the US are being left alone should raise plenty of questions about said rating agency their credibility.

  19. #13859
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    What I really really question is how rating agencies have the guts to downrate countries like Italy and make their life harder while the US seems to be able to just throw money out the window without any repercussions or fear of downgrading.
    Because the job of rating agencies is to give accurate ratings to lenders, not to give feel-good numbers. (Not saying that they always succeed.)
    If lenders see that rating agencies start giving out feel-good numbers to countries there is a significant risk that they will stop buying them altogether - since they wouldn't know how bad they really are.

    And the ones lending (by buying government bonds) may be your pension funds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    Rating agencies are paid for their services, people over value what they are worth. I mean we all learned in 2008 how reliable they were.

    For Italy it was expected, why it is being done now for just one nation and all others not the just the US are being left alone should raise plenty of questions about said rating agency their credibility.
    France got a minor change as well from DBRS during the last month (outlook changed from stable to negative).

    US is different from Euro-Zone countries since they can just print more dollars without defaulting, and in time of crisis people normally buy dollars.

  20. #13860
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Because the job of rating agencies is to give accurate ratings to lenders, not to give feel-good numbers. (Not saying that they always succeed.)
    If lenders see that rating agencies start giving out feel-good numbers to countries there is a significant risk that they will stop buying them altogether - since they wouldn't know how bad they really are.

    And the ones lending (by buying government bonds) may be your pension funds.
    How do they work? Like, who pays them to produce ratings? They are not universally funded agencies that don't have to worry about receiving payments, right? I seriously question their value in the world and how a pension fund might be tricked into buying better-rated stocks that are garbage and received that rating just because someone paid the rating agency.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

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