Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Dacien]

A million dead in the US alone.

Let's hope not. I know we'll do the best we can. This virus is a thing of the world, pestilence and all that. We'll do all we can. I'm encouraged by the mask use when necessity requires it.

[Crissi]

I don't see how we can weather another lockdown. I'm blessed to have an essential job as an electrician, but once unemployment benefits run out, people are going to be hurting. Senate reconvenes July 20, and I can't see any way around extending those federal benefits if we need to go back into lockdown. The upside is that people seem to be aware that masks are essential; I saw a poll from somewhere showing that (this being political somehow after all) 86% of Republicans are wearing them and way into the high 90's percent of Democrats are wearing them.

Just don't know what the future holds, but the financial impact simply cannot be ignored. At the end of the day people still need to feed their kids. They still have small businesses to keep alive, mortgages and rent to pay, and on an on.

If people were wearing masks in Texas (and also not going to bars), it wouldn't be so bad. We have a rabid anti mask issue. SO yeah, shut down is going to have to happen because people refuse to be responsible.

What should happen is to further extend the unemployment, but thats apparantly out the window for the Senate

[Edge-]

I don't see how we can weather another lockdown.

I don't see how we're surviving coming off lockdown, because Americans are dying in ever-greater numbers as states stupidly attempted it, either. I'm a little more worried about lives than I am the economy. The economy is fixable in the longterm, lives aren't replicable.

but once unemployment benefits run out, people are going to be hurting.

Why do they have to run out?

Senate reconvenes July 20, and I can't see any way around extending those federal benefits if we need to go back into lockdown.

Easy, McConnell shuts the fuck up, stops his crusade to make companies immune from any liability in any way, shape, or form during the pandemic, and continues to charge forward with more spending blowing up the US deficit and debt as he has been for the past 3 years.

It's more or less exactly what he's been doing, just with some of that actually helping the working class for a change.

The upside is that people seem to be aware that masks are essential; I saw a poll from somewhere showing that (this being political somehow after all) 86% of Republicans are wearing them and way into the high 90's percent of Democrats are wearing them.

Wouldn't it be nice if this medical advice given to us at the start of this pandemic was echoed, reinforced, and promoted by the federal and state governments, with elected officials leading by example. Maybe we could have stopped a lot of this anti-mask nonsense and potential saved tens of thousands of lives.

Just don't know what the future holds, but the financial impact simply cannot be ignored.

Again, nor can the human impact.

OVER 130,000 AMERICANS ARE DEAD IN LESS THAN 6 MONTHS. That number is not slowing down. That number, in that duration, is fucking staggering, and its significance cannot be understated. This exceeds what the US has faced during wars or natural disaster. The scale of the deaths and the absolute economic effects of millions of Americans getting sick and hospitalized, compounded with a massive broken health insurance/payment system is likely doing almost as much longterm damage as business closure. I'm sure economics will have a field day studying this down the road when this is a curiosity of history.

And I realize we're well past this point, but I will just drop a reminder that had the US as a whole taken earlier, more aggressive action both as was recommended in hindsight by outsiders and literally as this was beginning to unfold that these current economic impacts that are being pearl clutched about would likely be considerably less bad. Sweden being a great example of how leaving your economy open can not just have no meaningful benefits, but can potentially leave your country economically worse off.

At the end of the day people still need to feed their kids.

We live in the wealthiest, most technologically advanced, powerful nation on the world. We live in a nation of gross excess and extravagance comparatively. We should be able to keep people fed during a pandemic.

They still have small businesses to keep alive, mortgages and rent to pay, and on an on.

Sure makes you wonder if the world is largely set up to be resilient to the ever-increasing number of natural disaster that will be affecting us, no? Everything from mother natures wrath to more likely pandemics and other international interruptions.

[Felya]

Let's hope not. I know we'll do the best we can. This virus is a thing of the world, pestilence and all that. We'll do all we can. I'm encouraged by the mask use when necessity requires it.

Necessity required it months ago, but for some ungodly reason... Trump...

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I don't see how we can weather another lockdown.

Why not? You can’t tell me that leadership doesn’t exist that could weather a lock down to save lives. Wallstreet seems to have recovered nicely, perhaps it’s the working class’s turn? Another lock down is a misnomer, Trump never actually permitted a full lock down.

I'm blessed to have an essential job as an electrician, but once unemployment benefits run out, people are going to be hurting. Senate reconvenes July 20, and I can't see any way around extending those federal benefits if we need to go back into lockdown. The upside is that people seem to be aware that masks are essential; I saw a poll from somewhere showing that (this being political somehow after all) 86% of Republicans are wearing them and way into the high 90's percent of Democrats are wearing them.

Yes, the upside is that it took almost 6 months to get republicans to 86%... Now imagine if republican leadership was anyone other than Trump. That it was anyone that wasn’t encouraging breaking lock down protocols.

Just don't know what the future holds, but the financial impact simply cannot be ignored. At the end of the day people still need to feed their kids. They still have small businesses to keep alive, mortgages and rent to pay, and on an on.

The future holds more tax cuts for corporations.

[callipygoustp]

Wouldn't it be nice if this medical advice given to us at the start of this pandemic was echoed, reinforced, and promoted by the federal and state governments, with elected officials leading by example. Maybe we could have stopped a lot of this anti-mask nonsense and potential saved tens of thousands of lives.

This drives me bat shit crazy, ever since the beginning of epidemic: the overwhelming incompetence of the government, especially the fed. Debate all you want about Russia gate or whatever, but the ball was dropped in a major way back in Decemeber/January. The reprecussions of that dropped ball won't be seen for a couple months now but when they come, in the cost of lives and economically, the effects are going to be disastrous.

I expect my government, whether I voted for them or not, to govern effectively. I don't expect them to be experts on diseases, viruses, whatever. I expect them to use experts as necessary to promote the best way forward. Sadly, our current fed is incapable of doing this.

[bmjclark]

This drives me bat shit crazy, ever since the beginning of epidemic: the overwhelming incompetence of the government, especially the fed. Debate all you want about Russia gate or whatever, but the ball was dropped in a major way back in Decemeber/January. The reprecussions of that dropped ball won't be seen for a couple months now but when they come, in the cost of lives and economically, the effects are going to be disastrous.

I expect my government, whether I voted for them or not, to govern effectively. I don't expect them to be experts on diseases, viruses, whatever. I expect them to use experts as necessary to promote the best way forward. Sadly, our current fed is incapable of doing this.

Honestly, the astounding thing to me is that they fucked up, pretended they didn't fuck up and now they're fucking up in the exact same way again. Most other countries in the world didn't handle the pandemic perfectly at the start. You don't have to look much further than Italy or Spain for an example of that. But most other countries in the world realized their initial response wasn't perfect and adapted and now the numbers in most of these places are going downwards because their governments were actually willing to ramp up testing and put the effort in to get this thing under control. You can literally go back to March and swap the words "New York" to "Arizona" in those headlines and they match perfectly. You can go back and read the articles about PPE shortages and again, you wouldn't know they weren't from today if you didn't see the date. Same with testing shortages.

4 months ago the entire world was watching in horror at what was happening in Italy and now the exact same thing is happening in the US and 25% of the country is acting like it isn't actually a problem, another 25% are shrugging their shoulders saying "well, how could we have seen this coming" and 50% just get fucked because half the country is just beyond stupid.

The real irony here is that Trump wanted to bury this to not hurt his reelection campaign, but if he had of just dealt with it head on and gotten it under control he'd probably be 10% up in the polls right now.

[callipygoustp]

Honestly, the astounding thing to me is that they fucked up, pretended they didn't fuck up and now they're fucking up in the exact same way again. Most other countries in the world didn't handle the pandemic perfectly at the start. You don't have to look much further than Italy or Spain for an example of that. But most other countries in the world realized their initial response wasn't perfect and adapted and now the numbers in most of these places are going downwards because their governments were actually willing to ramp up testing and put the effort in to get this thing under control. You can literally go back to March and swap the words "New York" to "Arizona" in those headlines and they match perfectly. You can go back and read the articles about PPE shortages and again, you wouldn't know they weren't from today if you didn't see the date. Same with testing shortages.

4 months ago the entire world was watching in horror at what was happening in Italy and now the exact same thing is happening in the US and 25% of the country is acting like it isn't actually a problem, another 25% are shrugging their shoulders saying "well, how could we have seen this coming" and 50% just get fucked because half the country is just beyond stupid.

There are soooo many facets to how this was mishandled. It is truly mind boggling how inept the US Govt has been in handling this.

[Zantos]

I've seen articles in regarding gloves giving a false sense of security and if not used properly being completely useless, but nothing in regards to bandana being useless or worse then useless, just less effective then other options.

Care to provide a link?

Its the same effect. False sense of security. There are plenty of studies showing how lack luster they are in terms of actually stopping anything if they are a loose fit.

Here is one for ya https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...302v2.full.pdf. Basically shows that in places with mask mandates in the US, people started to spend Less time at home and more time in moderate to high-risk areas due to the false sense of security the masks gave them.

So, the studies are there.

Feel free to cite them, then. I've cited one that indicates that, while much less effective, bandanas are still better than no protection at all.

Changes to behavior are a different topic than the efficacy of a face covering as well.

One is linked in the other reply. https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/deta...---5-june-2020 Here is another source. The director of the WHO warning about this exact issue, just last month.


And no, changes in behavior are not a different topic than the efficiency of face coverings. Their intertwined. The efficiency of a face mask is very much a key aspect to look at when wearing it in the first place leads to their behavioral changes that cause them to begin to spend more time out of the house and at high risk areas.

At that point, you see them starting to take more and more risks since they now have a mask and this false sense of security. You have to ask your self, are the masks they wearing efficient enough to offset the newly created risks they are now taking?

[Nellise]

The real irony here is that Trump wanted to bury this to not hurt his reelection campaign, but if he had of just dealt with it head on and gotten it under control he'd probably be 10% up in the polls right now.

I don't even think Trump did this because of his campaign. One of his earliest statements about it was to let it "wash over" the country. He never wanted to do anything to stop it.

[callipygoustp]

Honestly the most important thing imo is to buy time for doctors to learn how to deal with this. We have additional cases here in Greece due to tourism but the government is adamant there will not be a country wide lockdown again and if need be there will simply be local lockdowns. Most countries have expanded their ICU capacity and six months in we know have a much better idea of how to deal with this so people will on average be treated much faster.
Not that any of that is an excuse for the collosal fuck up that is the US government. Clearly the most important factor in this has been government competence and consistency. When the government speaks with one voice and has a clear plan, people are far less likely to oppose it. But honestly was that ever likely in the US? I think even if you had Hillary, the people who resist masks now would do the same. You would be in a much better position because things would have been handled much better but a significant number of people would refuse to socially distance and you'd have never effectively flattened the curve

The two are, most definitely, not mutually exclusive. I'm not letting our gov't off the hook by giving the nod that they are.

Edit:
To be clear, I'm not saying, or meaning to imply, that you, Nymrohd, are.

[Granyala]

The economy is fixable in the longterm, lives aren't replicable.

Huh? I thought "replicating" life was what happened when a man and a woman love each other very much.

Sick jokes aside, I get your worry. A death count of ~600 per day (~220K p.a.) IS problematic but with the nonexistent social nets and fucked up healthcare in the USA, how many do you think would die due to an economic collapse? I don't think ignoring the economic problems entirely is valid either. Short term, aggressive action is required, since you guys seem to lose control again but you need to strike a balance long term.

[Granyala]

You do realize that is why I stated that aggressive short term measures are required to regain control of the situation, yes?

[Gorsameth]

I don't see how we can weather another lockdown. I'm blessed to have an essential job as an electrician, but once unemployment benefits run out, people are going to be hurting. Senate reconvenes July 20, and I can't see any way around extending those federal benefits if we need to go back into lockdown. The upside is that people seem to be aware that masks are essential; I saw a poll from somewhere showing that (this being political somehow after all) 86% of Republicans are wearing them and way into the high 90's percent of Democrats are wearing them.

Just don't know what the future holds, but the financial impact simply cannot be ignored. At the end of the day people still need to feed their kids. They still have small businesses to keep alive, mortgages and rent to pay, and on an on.

That is why the rest of the world bit down and took the damage rather then fake their numbers to open up extra early.
Because 1 real lockdown is less damaging then a to short lockdown and then having to do a real lockdown.

Also those mask stats are pure bullshit.

This is a poll about mask wear throughout the world from april
https://www.ipsos.com/en/more-people...covid-19-march

80/90% puts you into asian country territory. The numbers simply do not add up for the US to be in the 80% mask wearing.

Let's hope not. I know we'll do the best we can. This virus is a thing of the world, pestilence and all that. We'll do all we can. I'm encouraged by the mask use when necessity requires it.

How can you say that when the US is categorically not doing the best it can. States that are running out of ICU space should have been in lockdown for 2 weeks already, but they haven't even started yet.

Halting re-opening when your curve is already exponential doesn't do anything, it just keeps it going exponentially.

[Forogil]

For a look at how badly this can go, look at India.

When India was starting to impose its 21-day lockdown some made predictions for what would happen https://arxiv.org/pdf/2003.12055.pdf

The prediction was that without mitigating factors India would at April 13 have 10k confirmed cases, and then continue the growth with a peak in beginning of July of 160 million actual cases.

With 21 day lockdown the prediction was a decrease and then increase afterwards to keep the cases below 10k until June.
India's initial lockdown scored a perfect 100/100 on Oxford's government response tracker https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/re...sponse-tracker

However, the confirmed cases matched didn't match the prediction for lockdown, but matched the numbers without mitigating factors during the initial lockdown.
After that lockdown India have continued with some lockdowns and opening up the country; at the same time the exponential growth slowed down to only doubling every 3rd week (from every week at the start) but that's still doubling, and patients are already sharing beds and oxygen supplies - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52798740 (for those willing and able to go to hospitals at all). It seems likely that the numbers will continue to increase for months.
(Obviously the actual numbers of cases, and deaths is unknown due to under-reporting.)

And the lockdown did crash the economy, and caused at least a few hundred deaths due to starvation, suicide, police brutality, and trains running over the starving.

[Granyala]

Forget what I said. I'm [..] sleep deprived.

Well then, off to bed with you!

[Coolthulhu]

We live in the wealthiest, most technologically advanced, powerful nation on the world. We live in a nation of gross excess and extravagance comparatively. We should be able to keep people fed during a pandemic.

Powerful when it comes to military power? Yes. Wealthiest? Well that depends on how you define wealthiest, I'd be more inclined at looking at the per capita GDP, while keeping an eye on how large the divide is between billionaires, multi-millionaires, middle-high class, middle class, lower-middle class (which in America's case is pretty much proletariat), and subproletariat. Of course the government could handle money better, but those divides don't make thing easy during a pandemic. On the other countries where pretty much everyone can go some months without starving (and have at least some sort of decent healthcare, in some cases exceptionally good), well, that makes a huge difference.

I'd also take "most technologically advanced" with more than a grain of salt. I've been to the US more times than I can count both for work and because I have cousins there, and what always struck me was how outdated the infrastructures were (and in some cases how dirty some cities are, even Manhattan smells, I don't know why, probably the sewer system, but it smells like no other North of the World metropolitan area I've ever been, not even Shenzhen and Guangzhou - which are not in the North of the World - are that fragrant). Of course, save for a few exceptions (small & rich countries), it's difficult to find countries where the technological advance is constant over the territory - rural Japan for instance isn't as technological as downtown Tokyo. Another hallmark of an advanced state is its ability to inform citizens, which didn't happen in the US, like you said - whereas here, we've been hammered with information for months, and still are (and I'm sorry to say that unlike SEA countries, it didn't make that much of a difference because the average Westerner lacks the civic sense that people in SEA countries have, which is also why I worry a bad second wave is going to be very likely and worse than the first one here in the Old Continent, just give it time, you see people getting more "relaxed" - euphemism for "criminally irresponsible"; not wearing PPE, disregarding social distancing &c. - by the day).

I could go on but I feel like I'm digressing. My point is, many have a tendency to overestimate the US' capabilities based on the fact that it's the world's 1st superpower, but if things are handled poorly on a state level and the preexisting quality of life of most of the population isn't that good to begin with, it's pretty obvious there are going to be big issues. When the first cases showed up in the US, I predicted it'd come to this, and worse. The only reason why I didn't urge my cousins to come over here is that they're rich and live in a very low-population area.

[Felya]

RIP Slurpee day... another thing taken by covid... 7/11 just announced its canceled.

[unfilteredJW]

RIP Slurpee day... another thing taken by covid... 7/11 just announced its canceled.

7/11 being more responsible than most state governments.

[Strawberry]

Don't be obtuse; when there's a fucking hurricane, self-preservation dictates that you hide in the fucking basement.

Doing anything else is the equivalent of an evolutionary cul-de-sac.

You're comparing a fucking hurricane to a virus?
Don't you know better?

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Feel free to cite them, then. I've cited one that indicates that, while much less effective, bandanas are still better than no protection at all.

Changes to behavior are a different topic than the efficacy of a face covering as well.

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https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0131221348.htm

You're still painfully wrong. Mammals largely survived the K/T extinction in part because they were literally hiding "in basements" underground.

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https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps...-start-to-rise



More deaths on the way. Stay safe y'all. Wash your hands. Mask up. Stay the fuck away from people. Don't be another statistic.

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/polit...ard/index.html



America cannot effectively battle a pandemic.

Meanwhile, educators everywhere are scrambling to try to figure out how going back to school would even work given the safety needs and wildly inconsistent guidance received.

The US governments policies are going to end up continuing to lead to the needless deaths of thousands. We are not capable of fighting against a pandemic.

How did you get a moderator rank with that shrimp brain?

Infracted - Flaming

[PhaelixWW]

You're comparing a fucking hurricane to a virus?
Don't you know better?

Why the heck shouldn't I?

Both are natural, catastrophic dangers that should trigger one's innate sense of self-preservation and cause one to take action to avoid said danger.

Unfortunately, I guess some evolutionary dead-end yahoos would rather run into the hurricane than shelter from it.