1. #18521
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    the term "ripping off the band-aid" comes to my mind at this stage of covid.
    What happened to ‘wait and see’?
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  2. #18522
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    What happened to ‘wait and see’?
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  3. #18523
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/medium/

    see that part where it says "mixed"? "left leaning"? yes i read what i linked first and saw that Medium.com takes in a number of articles from differing opinions. seems like they post some real things, some not so real. some not vetted at all.

    oh shit medium.com was started by the twitter guy?? lol.

    here is the author of your article @Orange Joe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhett_Allain

    i don't doubt this man is more educated than me in his field (physics first, BLOGGING second), but nothing i can find lends any real credibility to this discussion other than "he wrote a fart covid article". i guess i brought it up in the first place. fair enough.

    ...... Again you are welcome to refute anything in his article. If a measurement is wrong feel free to provide proof as to how he is wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Did they ever get around to investigating the source of it or are we still blaming it on bat soup next to chinese virus lab?
    Does the source matter at this point?
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  4. #18524
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds?
    Uhm... 180000 dead... here is a prediction, more blood... lol

    i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.
    Because consistency is what’s at play here...

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.
    180000 dead... If you think media is fearmongering now, who is going to be the arbiter, once “wait and see” bares fruit?

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    What? That the president of US is telling us to ignore doctors and medical professionals? No... I don’t see politicians for my medical care... nor do I trust a real estate mogul, to shut down his business, to save lives.

    Not only are we not the same based on that quote, I don’t think you know what it means and what role you play in it. Snoochie Boochies... 420 brah!!
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #18525
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    Lets add some context of exactly what 190,000 people means, so that we can tell if it is "Fear-mongering".

    Lets assume you live to 80 years old. Lets assume you meet and interact with 3 new people a day on average, which is pretty generous for most people. That is about 80,000 people. So this has killed more then twice as many people as you will ever speak to in your life.

    How about a different example: The 2007 Troop surge in Iraq under Obama sent our total Troop numbers in Iraq to 176,000. Imagine if every single one of them died in a six month period. Would it be overreacting to consider that a really big deal?

    How about comparing it to historical big deals? During WWII, an average of 220 Americans died in combat per day. Yesterday over 1,000 Americans died of Covid-19. It peaked at 2,700 per day. It has been over 220 every day since March 24, when it first crossed that number.

    WWI? About 50,000 combat deaths, and about 114,000 total deaths for the US (Mostly disease for the rest). That was about 18 months of war, Covid-19 took 4 months to shatter those numbers.

    Covid-19 has killed more Americans then every hurricane that has hit the US combined.

    So how, exactly, is it still fear mongering at this point? How, exactly, is not taking it seriously at this point a rational perspective? Covid-19 is different from those examples because it is far less visual. You don't see the mass of coffins usually, you don't see footage on the news of people dying, because they are dying in hospital beds all over the US, one at a time. It is far easier to ignore, but the devastation is still there, it is just spread out.

  6. #18526
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Few points. Low and slow is leagues better than high and never slow. So they are doing better. The US is also still higher than Europe. Now, if you mean the European Union, that is consisting of 44 countries. We are still far higher than them.
    I had no intention of saying that the US is doing great.
    Merely that Europe haven't solved the issue either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Now, as for the statement of not knowing if the numbers will rise again, they already have. Schools are ensuring that. More and more states are starting to skyrocket in cases. According to this chart I found, we are staying near 290k and this week went up to 296k. So we are certainly going back up. Right now, Eruope is actually not at 237k. Europe is at 216k and The European Union is at 139k. So, the numbers you found are a bit off.
    I used the data from WHO, https://covid19.who.int/ where the "Europe" region for historic reasons include former Soviet Union and Israel - since that site can show a nice graph of how the weekly cases are changing per region.

    However, the exact boundaries don't matter - as the relevant part is that it is increasing (although slowly) and that is to a large extent due to EU countries; and the reported numbers are so far from the truth that arguing whether they are 237k 216k is fairly meaningless.

    And the US increase was that it was holding steady at about 294k and then dropped to 290k on Sept 1 back to 296k on Sept 2. That seems like bad averaging due to small changes in reporting time to me - and not any substantial change.

    I'm not denying that the US numbers might increase again - but that isn't the clear evidence.

    Added: And I don't know what you mean with "Now, if you mean the European Union, that is consisting of 44 countries.". EU has 27 member countries at the moment.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-09-03 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #18527
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Lets add some context of exactly what 190,000 people means, so that we can tell if it is "Fear-mongering".

    Lets assume you live to 80 years old. Lets assume you meet and interact with 3 new people a day on average, which is pretty generous for most people. That is about 80,000 people. So this has killed more then twice as many people as you will ever speak to in your life.

    How about a different example: The 2007 Troop surge in Iraq under Obama sent our total Troop numbers in Iraq to 176,000. Imagine if every single one of them died in a six month period. Would it be overreacting to consider that a really big deal?

    How about comparing it to historical big deals? During WWII, an average of 220 Americans died in combat per day. Yesterday over 1,000 Americans died of Covid-19. It peaked at 2,700 per day. It has been over 220 every day since March 24, when it first crossed that number.

    WWI? About 50,000 combat deaths, and about 114,000 total deaths for the US (Mostly disease for the rest). That was about 18 months of war, Covid-19 took 4 months to shatter those numbers.

    Covid-19 has killed more Americans then every hurricane that has hit the US combined.

    So how, exactly, is it still fear mongering at this point? How, exactly, is not taking it seriously at this point a rational perspective? Covid-19 is different from those examples because it is far less visual. You don't see the mass of coffins usually, you don't see footage on the news of people dying, because they are dying in hospital beds all over the US, one at a time. It is far easier to ignore, but the devastation is still there, it is just spread out.
    To be fair, wars usually kill young people (15-40 years old) while covid "mainly" kills the elderly. It should still be fight in a smart way, and the USA did not take it.

  8. #18528
    Legendary! Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    To be fair, wars usually kill young people (15-40 years old) while covid "mainly" kills the elderly. It should still be fight in a smart way, and the USA did not take it.
    Right, but I consider that even more an argument in favor of taking this seriously. The wars I listed mostly killed Americans who went to fight in that war (Obviously wars tend to be very indiscriminate in killing people in the places that war is being fought, but I am specifically referring to American Soldier deaths here). People whose job it was to endanger themselves, people who could fight back and influence the conflict they were in. Covid kills average Americans, regardless of their participation or lack thereof. You can't be a conscientious objector from Covid. Bone Spurs won't save you. Or spending time in the Texas National Guard or moving to Canada.

    Diseases, by their nature, prey mostly on the most vulnerable parts of our society. You know, the people society is supposed to protect. When society gives a full rejection of its duty to protect its weakest members, then that is a shit society. The entire point of having a society in the first place is to protect people who are at a stage of their life where they cannot fully contribute, either because they are too young or too old. If that is necessary, then society isn't necessary, the strongest people should just take care of themselves.

  9. #18529
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    Right, but I consider that even more an argument in favor of taking this seriously. The wars I listed mostly killed Americans who went to fight in that war (Obviously wars tend to be very indiscriminate in killing people in the places that war is being fought, but I am specifically referring to American Soldier deaths here). People whose job it was to endanger themselves, people who could fight back and influence the conflict they were in. Covid kills average Americans, regardless of their participation or lack thereof. You can't be a conscientious objector from Covid. Bone Spurs won't save you. Or spending time in the Texas National Guard or moving to Canada.

    Diseases, by their nature, prey mostly on the most vulnerable parts of our society. You know, the people society is supposed to protect. When society gives a full rejection of its duty to protect its weakest members, then that is a shit society. The entire point of having a society in the first place is to protect people who are at a stage of their life where they cannot fully contribute, either because they are too young or too old. If that is necessary, then society isn't necessary, the strongest people should just take care of themselves.
    And I am glad to live in Europe where the Covid was taken seriously by the authorities.

  10. #18530
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    People of Donetsk in general are shifting more and more towards denier stance. We're back to school too. How long would it take for cases to increase, several weeks?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    But... there are over 180000 dead already...
    I understand that your discussion was USA-specific, and for people from USA their opinion on the pandemic is predetermined by their party affiliation, this is a political issue for y'all instead of healthcare related, but Covid is a global issue so I'll reply to this, and to the repeated question "how is this number overhyped?".

    Before I get to the 180k number (190k by now) - Covid is the worst pandemic in 50 years, keep that in mind. Even in the last 100 years, only Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics were worse than Covid. We should take this seriously and act accordingly. You know, masks, distancing, no mass gatherings, only essential travel. All this is annoying but necessary, people die during a pandemic and there's no need to make it worse. Annoying and boring.

    Now 190k deaths. That's approximately how many people die in USA every 2.5 weeks. Spread over 7-8 months, this number means that Covid caused ~10% deaths in USA over this period. This is significant, and as I said, we should take this seriously and act accordingly.

    Overhyped part is when people start comparing the planet to their house and go crazy. 190k is a large number, but did y'all go crazy every 2.5 weeks your whole life? No? Are y'all hypocrites? 190k babies are born every 12 hours on this planet, why aren't y'all celebrating every one of them? Only fearmongering is worthwhile?

    When you talk about huge global numbers, you should only compare them to other huge global numbers, otherwise you're misinterpreting and overhyping them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  11. #18531
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yunru View Post
    And it happened:
    https://www.24ur.com/novice/korona/v...-12-otrok.html (use gogle translate)

    5 workers 12 kids got it in a kindergarden. I didnt take even a day .
    *shocked pikachu*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    I understand that your discussion was USA-specific, and for people from USA their opinion on the pandemic is predetermined by their party affiliation, this is a political issue for y'all instead of healthcare related, but Covid is a global issue so I'll reply to this, and to the repeated question "how is this number overhyped?".

    Before I get to the 180k number (190k by now) - Covid is the worst pandemic in 50 years, keep that in mind. Even in the last 100 years, only Asian Flu and Hong Kong Flu pandemics were worse than Covid. We should take this seriously and act accordingly. You know, masks, distancing, no mass gatherings, only essential travel. All this is annoying but necessary, people die during a pandemic and there's no need to make it worse. Annoying and boring.

    Now 190k deaths. That's approximately how many people die in USA every 2.5 weeks. Spread over 7-8 months, this number means that Covid caused ~10% deaths in USA over this period. This is significant, and as I said, we should take this seriously and act accordingly.

    Overhyped part is when people start comparing the planet to their house and go crazy. 190k is a large number, but did y'all go crazy every 2.5 weeks your whole life? No? Are y'all hypocrites? 190k babies are born every 12 hours on this planet, why aren't y'all celebrating every one of them? Only fearmongering is worthwhile?

    When you talk about huge global numbers, you should only compare them to other huge global numbers, otherwise you're misinterpreting and overhyping them.
    The problem with the absolutist mentality of looking at deaths only is that the number of critically ill and those with long term health problems is greater than those who die.

    The other issue with the "that many people die each X number of days" is that those deaths also don't stop. People still have falls, heart attacks, strokes, etc.

  12. #18532
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    you rip the band aid off. then you wait to see if it bleeds? i don't know man, i see what you're trying at but those two statements i made don't exactly coincide.

    time will tell if i'm an idiot for ignoring "facts" or time will tell if you all got took by the fearmongering media. we have to rip the band aid off to get to that point.

    you quote orwell in your signature. i feel the exact same way as you must have when you added that quote right now about the world.
    You still on this track?

    Time will tell? So 250,000 excess deaths at least 190k already directly related to COVID is not enough to tell? Huge outbreak, small downward trend and a spike back up to record territory is not enough "time" to tell it was not fearmongering?

    You sound exactly like states of Florida, Texas and most of the south-midwest in April-May. Look where they are now and what has happened in the past few months.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  13. #18533
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Huge outbreak, small downward trend and a spike back up to record territory is not enough "time" to tell it was not fearmongering?
    The official death toll is at 870k. With all the uncounted excess death, the actual total is likely around 1.2m. That puts COVID within the top 10 or so pandemics by death toll in all of history. And this pandemic isn't over yet.

    The kind of people who shrug off any reasonable amount of precaution or concern as "fearmongering" are not just delusional, but intentionally so and proud of it.

    Ignorance can be solved with education, but willful, boastful stupidity can't be fixed.


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  14. #18534
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...ls-say-1529576

    The Maine wedding that led to multiple coronavirus outbreaks throughout the state has now been associated with 144 positive coronavirus cases, more than six times the number of linked cases initially reported by state health officials.

    Dr. Nirav Shah, director of the Maine Center for Disease Control and Prevention (Maine CDC), announced the updated numbers at a Thursday press conference. The wedding, which took place August 7 at the Big Moose Inn in Millinocket, has caused known outbreaks at the York County Jail in Alfred and the Maplecrest Rehabilitation Center in Madison.

    The Maine CDC announced its investigation into the wedding August 17, reporting 24 positive COVID-19 cases among wedding guests. That number has since increased sixfold to 144 cases. One additional death linked to the wedding has been determined, bringing the total fatalities to two, Shah said.

    ...

    Of the 144 cases, 56 were determined to be guests at the wedding, or their secondary or tertiary contacts, Shah said. One of these secondary contacts happens to work at Maplecrest, and the facility now has eight infected residents and an additional seven infected staff members.
    This is how easy it is to cause an outbreak. One wedding with a few dozen attendees, one sick person, well over a hundred new cases directly traced back to it and likely far more that haven't been discovered yet.

  15. #18535
    this place is the absolute most intolerant place i've ever experienced in my life.

    i wish you all well.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  16. #18536
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    this place is the absolute most intolerant place i've ever experienced in my life.

    i wish you all well.
    You are surprised? You brought nothing but disinformation, literally based on your feels (you said that yourself), and then got all huffy when people dared to challenge your for it. If you are making big, bold claims and call them facts, you are expected to be able to back them up with something. I suppose you could call that intolerance. Intolerance towards bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  17. #18537
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    this place is the absolute most intolerant place i've ever experienced in my life.

    i wish you all well.
    I mean, I gave you the explanation you were asking for...


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  18. #18538
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus...ls-say-1529576



    This is how easy it is to cause an outbreak. One wedding with a few dozen attendees, one sick person, well over a hundred new cases directly traced back to it and likely far more that haven't been discovered yet.
    And Trump ordered the CDC to ignore that science, and changed the school opening parameters. And now every school with in-person class is almost guaranteed to be a super spreader event. Potentially killing thousands of people.

  19. #18539
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And Trump ordered the CDC to ignore that science, and changed the school opening parameters. And now every school with in-person class is almost guaranteed to be a super spreader event. Potentially killing thousands of people.
    I think it's obvious right now that the CDC and the FDA are severely compromised and we should take everything they say with a giant grain of salt. They are now just another part of Trump's effort to get re-elected that's the only way to explain the Nov. 1st vaccine rush. We are about to pull a Putin and give vaccines that are not safe or effective to people just so Trump can gain a few points in the polls.

  20. #18540
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    this place is the absolute most intolerant place i've ever experienced in my life.

    i wish you all well.
    When presented with facts, tuck tail and run.

    Fitting considering the forum name/avatar.

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