1. #18781
    https://www.wboy.com/news/health/cor...or-1230-p-m-3/

    State education officials announced that on-campus students who are quarantining together in a secure and monitored facility will be counted as one case. The proposed changes should happen by Thursday at midnight and will likely move Monongalia County to the “orange” status, officials said.
    Boy, this is sure a good way to reduce numbers and make things seem like they aren't as bad as they actually are.

  2. #18782
    Hey guys, why didn't a private citizen with the last name Biden institute a national mask mandate? also his handling of the pandemic has been horrible, while he was sitting at home as a private citizen /s

    This country...

  3. #18783
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.wboy.com/news/health/cor...or-1230-p-m-3/

    Boy, this is sure a good way to reduce numbers and make things seem like they aren't as bad as they actually are.
    I understand this. If most of the cases in the county are in this on-campus quarantine, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shut down the rest of the county because of them. I don't think they're saying they won't count the individual cases as they come in, but when trying to decide on future mitigation measures for the whole county it makes more sense to count it as one since they're not interacting with the rest of the community.

  4. #18784
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    I understand this. If most of the cases in the county are in this on-campus quarantine, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shut down the rest of the county because of them. I don't think they're saying they won't count the individual cases as they come in, but when trying to decide on future mitigation measures for the whole county it makes more sense to count it as one since they're not interacting with the rest of the community.
    I'd feel better about this if I was at all confident that they're actually "not interacting with the rest of the community."


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  5. #18785
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    I understand this. If most of the cases in the county are in this on-campus quarantine, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shut down the rest of the county because of them. I don't think they're saying they won't count the individual cases as they come in, but when trying to decide on future mitigation measures for the whole county it makes more sense to count it as one since they're not interacting with the rest of the community.
    There are supposedly checks in place, but considering we've seen instance after instance of college kids breaking quarantine or even throwing god-damned house parties despite recently testing positive, this is monumentally stupid. We can't even get "functioning adults" who aren't still in the period in their life where binge drinking is a hobby to follow the rules, and we're expecting a bunch of fuckin college kids to follow the rules?

    It also artificially lowers the numbers for the state/county which causes other issues beyond that in inaccurate reporting.

  6. #18786
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I'd feel better about this if I was at all confident that they're actually "not interacting with the rest of the community."
    Seems like they're trying their best to keep it that way (from the article): "State education officials announced that on-campus students who are quarantining together in a secure and monitored facility will be counted as one case. "

    Although I hope this is a typo in the next paragraph: "Students in quarantine who do follow the policies face disciplinary action through WVU, officials said."

  7. #18787
    To add a bit of levity to a serious subject.

    Cerabino: Palm Beach County strip clubs' coronavirus safety plans could use some tweaking

    That being said, we here at CAVE have reviewed the “additional measures” you plan to take in the clubs, and have found some of them problematic or incomplete. So we have come up with “additional additional measures” of our own for you to consider.

    Here are your safety measures with our suggested improvements to them:

    Plexiglass barrier

    Your additional measure: “Plexiglass to be installed around stages so guests cannot encroach on entertainer’s stage space.”

    Our added suggestion: Creating access holes in the plexiglass will be expressly forbidden, except for patrons who have purchased $500 bottles of champagne.

    Tipping dancers onstage

    Your additional measure: “Guests can give money over the glass.”

    Our added suggestion: If this involves coins, the patron must yell “Incoming!” to the dancer before hurling the money over the plexiglass barrier.

    Lap dance dress code

    Your additional measure: “Private lap dances require masks from both guest and entertainer.”

    Our added suggestion: “Depending on the heaviness of the breathing, the guest may be asked to wear two masks.”

    Lap dance orientation


    Your additional measure: “Dance will be performed facing away from the guest – no face-to-face dancing.”

    Our added suggestion: A ceiling-suspended plexiglass barrier should be placed between the performer’s back and the seated guest. Guest can knock on the glass in order to give the lap dancer any specific instructions.

    One knock for “higher”; two for “lower.”

    Lap dance duration

    Your additional measure: “Dances will be three minutes or less.”

    Our added suggestion: Dancers who complete training on operating a defibrillator may get waivers to do longer dances on older guests.

    Lap dance sanitation


    Your additional measure: “Area will be sanitized after each dance.”

    Our added suggestion: Area will also be roped off for 30 minutes to minimize risk of slip-and-fall lawsuits.

    Face masks for guests

    Your additional measure: Masks “not required while sitting at socially distanced table/seats or while eating or drinking.”

    Our added suggestion: No eating or drinking allowed during lap dances.

    Pole hygiene


    Your additional measure: “Poles will be sanitized after each entertainer.”

    Our added suggestion: And this would be new?!

    Stage dancing protocols

    Your additional measure: “1 entertainer on stage at a time & remain 6 feet from guests”

    Our added suggestion: Stripper may seductively play with her mask during performance to expose her face. The 6-foot rule will be defined as nearest appendage to nearest appendage.

    Temperature checks

    Your additional measure: “Temperature checked. Anything above 99.5 degrees will not be permitted.”

    Our added suggestion: To avoid confusion, advertisements will not identify dancers as “hot.” Also, club thermometer devices will not be used as props during dance routines.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2020-09-17 at 06:37 PM.

  8. #18788
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It also artificially lowers the numbers for the state/county which causes other issues beyond that in inaccurate reporting.
    I don't think they're hiding numbers. Many measures are put in place when counties hit certain numbers. But I'd be pissed off if I were a restaurant or bar owner far from campus that got my business shut down because of these students who won't come anywhere near my place. That's what this is for (the county in question is larger than NYC in area).

  9. #18789
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post


    There are actually reasons to why they say what they say and do what they do. You can give them a benefit of the doubt there, especially considering we don't really have a clue about this shit anyway, for sure less than them.
    Nah. We are supposed to get clear information from these people. If the system is overloaded, they need to increase capacity. No longer testing for individuals who are the number 1 cause of this virus continuing to spread is not the solution. Also, most people here do not, and will not, have an N95 mask. So telling them that the mask is there to protect them from the virus isn't going to help. It will make more idiots, as we have already seen, host large gatherings in poorly circulated areas and spread the virus more.

    I just cant support the narrative that there is a reason for what they say when it shouldn't be anything but the truth and should be aimed at stopping this. If the system is failing in some regard to help slow or stop the spread, than it needs to be fixed. Not haulted.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  10. #18790
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    I don't think they're hiding numbers. Many measures are put in place when counties hit certain numbers. But I'd be pissed off if I were a restaurant or bar owner far from campus that got my business shut down because of these students who won't come anywhere near my place. That's what this is for (the county in question is larger than NYC in area).
    Now, no. But under the new rule, if there are 2 groups of 10 kids each quarantining on campus in two different locations, that's just 2 cases. So it does fuck with the data, which seems to be the whole purpose.

    The students may not be directly coming to your restaurant or bar, but they don't have to. They just have to break quarantine and interact with literally anyone else who may go to the restaruant or bar, which would be pretty damned easy.

    Hell, that dumb wedding in Maine? Some of the people who died didn't even go, they got infected from others who attended the wedding. And I think they were even seeing transmissions 3-4 people down the line, so someone who got the virus got it from someone who got it from someone else who got it from someone at the wedding.

    You can't treat this shit like it's all happening in isolation or that people, especially college kids, will follow all the rules. If folks were following all the rules to begin with, this wouldn't be a fuckin problem.

  11. #18791
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    So in essence: it is a false statement.
    I do agree with you on the psychological aspect. They use this half-truth in order to encourage a higher compliance.
    Its a double edged sword though. We have the science proving their statements wrong. So it will have the opposite effect. More people will start to become skeptical of what the CDC is saying and will start to ignore it because they have been caught in a lie. This is certainly a case of honesty is the best policy. You bombard them with facts and data to get them to comply. If you're struggling to get them to comply with all that, than a bold faced lie is just going to make it far worse and possibly undo any good. Could make it so that even fewer people listen in the end because they can no longer trust them.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  12. #18792
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Its a double edged sword though. We have the science proving their statements wrong. So it will have the opposite effect. More people will start to become skeptical of what the CDC is saying and will start to ignore it because they have been caught in a lie. This is certainly a case of honesty is the best policy. You bombard them with facts and data to get them to comply. If you're struggling to get them to comply with all that, than a bold faced lie is just going to make it far worse and possibly undo any good. Could make it so that even fewer people listen in the end because they can no longer trust them.
    It's really a case of a little bit seeing through the lines and giving benefit of the doubt.

    The statements are more often than not social engineering, the purpose is to compel people into falling in line.

    You have hordes of people who don't even care about science behind it and it's actually the best, compared to so many Dunning-Kruger effect practitioners.

    So yes, if doctors tell them to put mask on - the best way is to put the damned mask on, because even a shitty home-made mask is still a whole lot better than absolutely nothing and at least here most people use surgical masks because they are cheap as dirt anyway, making all this home-made BS pointless.


    I'm actually a bit appalled at some people in this thread keeping this edgy approach of all or nothing when it comes to masks. It's not all or nothing - even a simple cloth mask is already a lot better than not giving a shit and if you have more people wearing masks, even masks like that - you will already save a lot of transmissions there.

    So yes, if CDC or whatever other organization, has to engineer the message a bit to encourage people to at least do something to help, I'm all for it.

  13. #18793
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/usps-...b6ba9eb6eb1214

    Part of reporting on broader USPS related issues from WashPo, but this is highly relevant to the thread -

    The United States Postal Service drafted an ambitious proposal in April to send a pack of five face masks to every residential address in the U.S. before top White House officials killed the idea, according to an analysis by the Washington Post of documents acquired by the watchdog organization American Oversight.

    American Oversight, which obtained over 9,000 pages related to the USPS via the Freedom of Information Act, released the documents in late August. One of the records, entitled “U.S. Postal Service to Deliver Face Coverings to Every American Household,” is a draft of a press release indicating that USPS planned to “distribute 560 million reusable cotton face masks on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to every residential delivery point in America, beginning in areas which HHS has identified as experiencing high transmission rates of COVID-19 and to workers providing essential services throughout the nation during this pandemic.”

    Composed in April, the draft stated that “letter carriers, rural carriers and others will deliver one pack of five face coverings to each residential delivery point and PO Box,” with the first shipments intended to reach residents that month. The Orleans and Jefferson parishes of Louisiana were targeted for delivery first, followed by Washington’s King County, Michigan’s Wayne County, and New York.

    The draft was never finalized due to the White House axing the plan, the Washington Post reported, citing senior administration officials who asked to be anonymous.

    There was concern from some in the White House Domestic Policy Council and the office of the vice president that households receiving masks might create concern or panic,” one of the officials told the Post.

    As an alternative, HHS instituted “Project: America Strong,” a system that has seen about 600 million masks distributed to critical infrastructure companies, hospitals and community groups, rather than individuals.
    USPS tried to help save the country. The current administration seemed to have little interest in that approach because it continues to look like they think that the more Americans killed by the virus, the better.

  14. #18794
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    It's really a case of a little bit seeing through the lines and giving benefit of the doubt.

    The statements are more often than not social engineering, the purpose is to compel people into falling in line.

    You have hordes of people who don't even care about science behind it and it's actually the best, compared to so many Dunning-Kruger effect practitioners.

    So yes, if doctors tell them to put mask on - the best way is to put the damned mask on, because even a shitty home-made mask is still a whole lot better than absolutely nothing and at least here most people use surgical masks because they are cheap as dirt anyway, making all this home-made BS pointless.


    I'm actually a bit appalled at some people in this thread keeping this edgy approach of all or nothing when it comes to masks. It's not all or nothing - even a simple cloth mask is already a lot better than not giving a shit and if you have more people wearing masks, even masks like that - you will already save a lot of transmissions there.

    So yes, if CDC or whatever other organization, has to engineer the message a bit to encourage people to at least do something to help, I'm all for it.
    Again though, people will Know its a lie. That is the issue. Now, if we didn't have it plastered all over the internet, social media and the news, I could see it working. But if the doctor is telling you to do something that Everything else is contradicting, you're going to raise questions and probably not go back to that doctor.

    We already know that no, a simple bandana isn't doing anything. That was a most recent study. Bandana and other thin masks, aren't helping. It was plastered all over since they are trying to make a push to get people to wear something effective. Here in the US, we can't get surgical masks.

    I get what you're saying, and social engineering could help. However, it needs on one crucial point to work, that is that the target doesn't know any better. If the target knows better, than you do more harm than good. That is why we are seeing a push back here in the US. People are seeing so much conflicting information on the masks. Having the CDC lie isn't helping that issue. Its making things worse when those of us wearing a mask try to get others to do so. Its akin to knocking down our argument before we make it.

    Just imagine trying to tell someone that the CDC said the mask will protect them. They will just counter "well, before they said it didn't, so which is it?" or they will point to the other studies and the multitude of sources saying its for the safety of others, not ourselves.

    Its not giving the benefit of the doubt. Its harming the cause. You cannot lie with this when the studies and facts are literally everywhere and all over the TV. If you go around lying, you're going to sow doubt about your further statements and slow down any effort to stop it. If they don't care about science, they aren't going to care about the CDC to begin with. So even that angle is moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  15. #18795
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    We already know that no, a simple bandana isn't doing anything. That was a most recent study. Bandana and other thin masks, aren't helping. It was plastered all over since they are trying to make a push to get people to wear something effective. Here in the US, we can't get surgical masks.
    Again, this is not accurate - https://www.nbc12.com/2020/07/01/ban...sk-study-says/

    A bandana is the least effective face covering, short of one of the neck gators or whatever that are actually worse than wearing nothing at all apparently, but they provide more protection than nothing. They absolutely "do something" and the thinner masks absolutely offer more protection for those around you compared to no mask at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    I get what you're saying, and social engineering could help. However, it needs on one crucial point to work, that is that the target doesn't know any better. If the target knows better, than you do more harm than good. That is why we are seeing a push back here in the US. People are seeing so much conflicting information on the masks. Having the CDC lie isn't helping that issue. Its making things worse when those of us wearing a mask try to get others to do so. Its akin to knocking down our argument before we make it.
    This is nonsense. People thinking they "know better" are fucking dumb. People listening to their crazy uncle's memes on Facebook over virologists and infectious disease experts are similarly dumb.

    The push back isn't based on fact or science, it's purely emotional and ideologically driven.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Just imagine trying to tell someone that the CDC said the mask will protect them. They will just counter "well, before they said it didn't, so which is it?" or they will point to the other studies and the multitude of sources saying its for the safety of others, not ourselves.
    I'll tell them that their earlier guidance against it was twofold - Because they were still learning a lot about the virus at the time, and because there was a shortage of masks (due to the administrations failure to prepare despite advanced warning) and the guidance was to keep them for medical professionals and others who would need them more.

    And then I'd ask them why they think that information can't change over time, and what their source is on the conflicting information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Its not giving the benefit of the doubt. Its harming the cause. You cannot lie with this when the studies and facts are literally everywhere and all over the TV. If you go around lying, you're going to sow doubt about your further statements and slow down any effort to stop it. If they don't care about science, they aren't going to care about the CDC to begin with. So even that angle is moot.
    Again, it's literally not. They're saying to wear masks, they're not saying that every type of mask is equally as effective. And again, short of those silly neck gators, they're absolutely 100% correct that anything from a single-use surgical mask to a bandana you wash offers you and those around you more protection than no face covering at all.

    The ones listening to the lies aren't listening to the CDC in the first place.

  16. #18796
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And again, short of those silly neck gators, they're absolutely 100% correct that anything from a single-use surgical mask to a bandana you wash offers you and those around you more protection than no face covering at all.
    What's a "neck gator"? Never heard that term.

  17. #18797
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    What's a "neck gator"? Never heard that term.
    I guess it's "neck gaiter", as I've never had to actually write it out. It's the thing hunters often wear in the US - https://www.amazon.com/neck-gaiter/s?k=neck+gaiter

    But apparently I was wrong, as further studies have shown that while it's still generally not super effective (especially the more porous materials) it's still better than nothing at all - https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-upd...8/neck-gaiters

  18. #18798
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    What's a "neck gator"? Never heard that term.
    Neck gaiter. I used them while cycling in winter to protect my nose from the cold wind. Otherwise you ended up with constant dripping runny nose while riding which is disgusting and red chaffed nose at the end of the ride.


  19. #18799
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    What's a "neck gator"? Never heard that term.
    If the term sounds weird, it's at least partly because they're the neck version of shoe gaiters, which predate neck gaiters by, like, centuries.






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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  20. #18800
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Ah okay. Thanks

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