1. #18801
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Womp womp. What part of:
    <..>
    ...do you not understand?
    You're delusional. I was talking in summer about summer. And since you're busy deflecting from the world as a whole to parts of the world, where's the graph of USA+Brazil? What are you hiding?


    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    DPR isn't even recognized as a country, so I have absolutely no idea whether or not they'd be able to afford the $20-30 million USD or so per year it would cost to immunize everyone in the country. The cost of the Russian vaccine is reportedly around $10-15 USD per dose.
    We probably won't. Indeed we're not a "real" country, but I'm told our healthcare minister is a competent woman, and she probably is, seeing how we have about 1.2x population of Delaware + Rhode Island combined on almost exactly same territory, but only about 1/15 total cases as those two combined, with probably 1/15000 money spent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  2. #18802
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I'm pretty sure that I read it somewhere, but I can't find source now, so feel free to take that statement with a grain of salt. I admit that there are many different types of vaccines, and that they hardly all have the same level of effectiveness.
    As previously stated, it's not the case for the flu. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0016809 https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...nogenicity.htm (that's why you shouldn't get flu vaccine too early).
    HPV-vaccines seems to be noted as an exception in being more effective than infection.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I would, however, argue that it's at least fairly true that vaccines will have a larger average rate of effectiveness than infection/recovery, simply due to the fact that some people get and recover from a virus with only a light case of infection. Such light cases may often be asymptomatic, or only lightly symptomatic, and they are being shown to produce a weaker immune response.
    For Sars-Cov-2 it may be true (due to the high number of lightly symptomatic cases - which is unusual), but we don't know yet.

    Another is that if we are talking about yearly vaccinations that means that safety concerns become even more important, as risks are magnified by more than order of magnitude.
    Last edited by Forogil; 2020-09-17 at 08:47 PM.

  3. #18803
    https://twitter.com/deesnider/status...86822817099778

    Dee Snider of Twisted Sister is not pleased with the asshole Florida teenagers using "We're Not Gonna Take It" as the background music for their pathetic little Target parade. What a guy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/h...e=articleShare

    A heavily criticized recommendation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last month about who should be tested for the coronavirus was not written by C.D.C. scientists and was posted to the agency’s website despite their serious objections, according to several people familiar with the matter as well as internal documents obtained by The New York Times.

    The guidance said it was not necessary to test people without symptoms of Covid-19 even if they had been exposed to the virus. It came at a time when public health experts were pushing for more testing rather than less, and administration officials told The Times that the document was a C.D.C. product and had been revised with input from the agency’s director, Dr. Robert Redfield.

    But officials told The Times this week that the health department did the rewriting itself and then “dropped” it into the C.D.C.’s public website, flouting the agency’s strict scientific review process.

    “That was a doc that came from the top down, from the H.H.S. and the task force,” said a federal official with knowledge of the matter, referring to the White House task force on the coronavirus. “That policy does not reflect what many people at the C.D.C. feel should be the policy.”

    The document contains “elementary errors” — such as referring to “testing for Covid-19,” as opposed to testing for the virus that causes it — and recommendations inconsistent with the C.D.C.’s stance that mark it to anyone in the know as not having been written by agency scientists, according to a senior C.D.C. scientist who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of a fear of repercussions.
    Shockingly, the nonsensical testing guidance saying you should only get tested if you present covid symptoms was not written by scientists at the CDC. More on why the US government remains incapable of leading a fight against the pandemic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/...ih4-story.html

    More anti-mask protesters. I'm still struggling to accept that people this deeply ignorant exist, and treat mask mandates as some kind of attack on their freedoms as if they're unable to continue to shout nonsense conspiracies through a fabric mask or something.

  4. #18804
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    You're delusional. I was talking in summer about summer.
    <stage whisper:> It's still summer...

    ...and cases are still rising. You're objectively wrong, and have been all along.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    And since you're busy deflecting from the world as a whole to parts of the world, where's the graph of USA+Brazil? What are you hiding?
    Who's deflecting? Hiding what? I posted the graphic for the whole world, which includes USA and Brazil. I can't believe I've had to point that out to you multiple times in a row now.

    On second thought, I can absolutely believe it, as you've seemingly deliberately ignored all the relevant data simply because you don't like the unavoidable conclusions to which they lead.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    We probably won't. Indeed we're not a "real" country, but I'm told our healthcare minister is a competent woman, and she probably is, seeing how we have about 1.2x population of Delaware + Rhode Island combined on almost exactly same territory, but only about 1/15 total cases as those two combined, with probably 1/15000 money spent.
    I sincerely doubt there's even a significant fraction of the international travel heading in/through/near DPR (or even the Ukraine as a whole), as through the Delaware and Rhode Island areas, which lie on a line that goes through Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston.

    That's a heck of a false equivalency.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #18805
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/usps-...b6ba9eb6eb1214

    Part of reporting on broader USPS related issues from WashPo, but this is highly relevant to the thread -

    USPS tried to help save the country. The current administration seemed to have little interest in that approach because it continues to look like they think that the more Americans killed by the virus, the better.
    It would not even cost "that" much, comparatively, for the USA. Especially compared to the previous money aid program.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  6. #18806
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    my live-in sister tested positive for covid-19. she coughed in my face this morning cause she was mad. now i'm worried i have it.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  7. #18807
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    my live-in sister tested positive for covid-19. she coughed in my face this morning cause she was mad. now i'm worried i have it.
    Get tested and quarantine yourself, seriously. Hopefully you're all fine, but this isn't shit to play around with.

    And then look to replace your sister with a roommate who isn't an asshole, because holy shit. People have been charged with assault for that kind of behavior.

  8. #18808
    Merely a Setback breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Get tested and quarantine yourself, seriously. Hopefully you're all fine, but this isn't shit to play around with.

    And then look to replace your sister with a roommate who isn't an asshole, because holy shit. People have been charged with assault for that kind of behavior.
    i can't i live at my parents. i called the soc for work and they told me to quarantine for 14 days. i plan to go in to medical provider's tomorrow and get tested. health department said i have to quarantine till october 8th.
    Last edited by breadisfunny; 2020-09-18 at 04:24 PM.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  9. #18809
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Eh?

    What does Flu deaths from previous years in the UK, in particular Derbyshire, have to do with the covid-19 pandemic in the US?
    This is a representative plot of the second wave during the 1918 Spanish flu.

    Here's Belfast and London
    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cp...deathrates.jpg

    Here's New York, Berlin, Paris, London:
    https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f34d2...fit=max&dpr=2&

    Here's Newfoundland:
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/...fig-0002-m.jpg

    The aggregate worldwide looks the same. The second wave is expected to start ramping up in October.. What do you see happening to our daily new cases... in many states which have been declining we're seeing the pace of decline slowing down and some are showing the first signs of ticking back up. Right on fucking cue.

  10. #18810
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    my live-in sister tested positive for covid-19. she coughed in my face this morning cause she was mad. now i'm worried i have it.
    Either stuff her head in a bag or laxative the shit out of her. No one should get away with that shit.

  11. #18811
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    This is nonsense. People thinking they "know better" are fucking dumb. People listening to their crazy uncle's memes on Facebook over virologists and infectious disease experts are similarly dumb.

    The push back isn't based on fact or science, it's purely emotional and ideologically driven.
    Its not nonsense. Its how it works. The know better comes from experts and data. They all agree that, despite what the CDC is saying in this example, you absolutely Should get tested as soon as you suspect you may have it, even if you're asymptomatic. And to add to that, that the masks are to help protect everyone around you, not you yourself.



    I'll tell them that their earlier guidance against it was twofold - Because they were still learning a lot about the virus at the time, and because there was a shortage of masks (due to the administrations failure to prepare despite advanced warning) and the guidance was to keep them for medical professionals and others who would need them more.

    And then I'd ask them why they think that information can't change over time, and what their source is on the conflicting information.
    But it hasn't change. Its still that they protect others around you and not you. Its not going to change. Its how they function. Its their design. They could easily counter with that fact alone. Not only that, they could counter with any study thats been done that proves it, while also pointing out that the CDC is now trying to get people to not get tested who should.



    Again, it's literally not. They're saying to wear masks, they're not saying that every type of mask is equally as effective. And again, short of those silly neck gators, they're absolutely 100% correct that anything from a single-use surgical mask to a bandana you wash offers you and those around you more protection than no face covering at all.

    The ones listening to the lies aren't listening to the CDC in the first place.
    Disagree fully with this sentiment. I have seen it time and time again that it Is harming. You don't lie, because then people wont believe you later on. There's an entire children's story called "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". Not only that, once they know you're lying repeatedly, they wont trust you. Its human nature. Its how the world has always worked. The CDC is giving false information about how masks work now.

    I get the sentiment that the ones listening to lies aren't listening to the CDC in the first place, but I am among those who are seeing them slip up and starting to not listen to them. Prior I was like yeah, we should take their word for it. Now? Screw em. Their spewing false information and actively trying to suppress our ability to track who is or isn't infected by suggesting fewer people take the test. I'll stick to hard facts, data and research being done that is independent of them. Its proven far more knowledgeable about how this spreads and how to stay safe than they have in this entire time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slirith View Post
    Either stuff her head in a bag or laxative the shit out of her. No one should get away with that shit.
    I believe most people who are caught doing this are actually having charges brought against them for doing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  12. #18812
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    Christ, some people are so devoid of a greater purpose in their lives that they're adhering to stupid "causes" and openly advertising their ignorance.

    "Can't you breathe better without a mask?" I can breathe just fine. I won't be able to if you keep being a retard.

  13. #18813
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    As previously stated, it's not the case for the flu. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0016809 https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...nogenicity.htm (that's why you shouldn't get flu vaccine too early).
    Influenza is a special case for several reasons when it comes to vaccinations, though, not the norm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    For Sars-Cov-2 it may be true (due to the high number of lightly symptomatic cases - which is unusual), but we don't know yet.
    That may be a fair point.

    As I can't find my original source on the subject, I'll retract the general statement on this point and merely state that I hope it's the case for this virus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Another is that if we are talking about yearly vaccinations that means that safety concerns become even more important, as risks are magnified by more than order of magnitude.
    Oh, absolutely. I wasn't trying to minimize the necessity of making sure that the vaccine is well-tested and safe. But with 100+ vaccines in the works, I feel somewhat confident that we'll ultimately find a safe version, even if we experience a few false starts along the way.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  14. #18814
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Oh, absolutely. I wasn't trying to minimize the necessity of making sure that the vaccine is well-tested and safe. But with 100+ vaccines in the works, I feel somewhat confident that we'll ultimately find a safe version, even if we experience a few false starts along the way.
    Aye, lets just hope that overeager politicians don't jump on one of the "false starts" and make vaccination mandatory.
    I find the above scenario more scary than the virus itself, tbh.

  15. #18815
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/u...gtype=Homepage

    On June 30, as the coronavirus was cresting toward its summer peak, Dr. Paul Alexander, a new science adviser at the Department of Health and Human Services, composed a scathing two-page critique of an interview given by a revered scientist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Dr. Anne Schuchat, a 32-year veteran of the C.D.C. and its principal deputy director, had appealed to Americans to wear masks and warned, “We have way too much virus across the country.” But Dr. Alexander, a part-time assistant professor of health research methods, appeared sure he understood the coronavirus better.

    “Her aim is to embarrass the president,” he wrote, commenting on Dr. Schuchat’s appeal for face masks in an interview with the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    “She is duplicitous,” he also wrote in an email to his boss, Michael R. Caputo, the Health and Human Services Department’s top spokesman who went on medical leave this week. He asked Mr. Caputo to “remind” Dr. Schuchat that during the H1N1 swine flu outbreak in 2009, thousands of Americans had died “under her work.”

    Of Dr. Schuchat’s assessment of Covid-19’s dangers, he fumed, wrongly, “The risk of death in children 0-19 years of age is basically 0 (zero) … PERIOD … she has lied.”

    Dr. Alexander’s point-by-point assessment, broken into seven parts and forwarded by Mr. Caputo to Dr. Robert R. Redfield, the C.D.C. director, was one of several emails obtained by The New York Times that illustrate how Mr. Caputo and Dr. Alexander attempted to browbeat career officials at the C.D.C. at the height of the pandemic, challenging the science behind their public statements and attempting to silence agency staff.

    Far from hiding what they knew about the virus’s danger, as Bob Woodward’s new book contends President Trump was doing, the emails seem to indicate that aides in Washington were convinced of their own rosy prognostications, even as coronavirus infections were shooting skyward.

    At the same time, Mr. Caputo moved to punish the C.D.C.’s communications team for granting interviews to NPR and attempting to help a CNN reporter reach him about a public-relations campaign. Current and former C.D.C. officials called it a five-month campaign of bullying and intimidation.
    More in the link, but this is precisely why the US has struggled so much: Because the White House is more interested in protecting the image of the POTUS than they are having qualified people lead us through a pandemic.

    This is damning, and in context with other revelations including that Trump knew of the dangers of the virus and intentionally downplayed them and more, make a strong argument to attribute a large number of the more than 200,000 American deaths caused by the virus directly to the Trump administration.

  16. #18816
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    my live-in sister tested positive for covid-19. she coughed in my face this morning cause she was mad. now i'm worried i have it.
    have her arrested for assault.

    you can drop the charges later but teach her a lesson!
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  17. #18817
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    <stage whisper:> It's still summer...
    No. I'm in Europe, we use words in their originally intended meanings. Last day of summer is last day of August. Kids go to school on the 1st day of autumn.


    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Who's deflecting? Hiding what? I posted the graphic for the whole world, which includes USA and Brazil. I can't believe I've had to point that out to you multiple times in a row now.

    On second thought, I can absolutely believe it, as you've seemingly deliberately ignored all the relevant data simply because you don't like the unavoidable conclusions to which they lead.
    ...which are...? (inb4 some more unrelated stuff like autumn rise which everyone was expecting)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  18. #18818
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    No. I'm in Europe, we use words in their originally intended meanings. Last day of summer is last day of August. Kids go to school on the 1st day of autumn.



    ...which are...? (inb4 some more unrelated stuff like autumn rise which everyone was expecting)
    I'm in Europe too. Here autumn starts September 21st.

  19. #18819
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1307041114415869961

    When the guy in charge makes unkeepable promises and continues to assert that he "knows more than the experts", you end up with 200,000 dead citizens in 8 months and pandemic numbers that are some of the worst in the developed world.

  20. #18820
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    i can't i live at my parents. i called the soc for work and they told me to quarantine for 14 days. i plan to go in to medical provider's tomorrow and get tested. health department said i have to quarantine till october 8th.
    You might want to make that 28 days. And consider pursuing legal action against your live-in sister.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adolecent View Post
    I'm getting infracted by an American moderator on an American topic promoting/advocating weapons on a childrens forum, what else to expect on an American forum. I'm done here and i'm going to leave you one thing to remember:
    [extremely graphic picture of dead children]
    Hope you sleep well. With the lack of empathy the majority of you show i guess that won't be a problem. BB

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